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10,000 year old Spruce Tree found in Sweden?

16 years ago

Just read about this a few days ago in the San Francisco Chronicle. Anybody know about this? This beats Pinus Aristata's record by double.

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Comments (10)

sequoia_stiffy
Original Author
16 years ago
IT's a small one, but it's age is amazing. THere's a picture on this site, too.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
16 years ago
too bad you didnt link it for us
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pineresin
16 years ago
Old news!!

See this thread from 2 weeks ago . . .

Here is a link that might be useful: Just In...World's Oldest Living Tree = Norway Spruce
pinetree30
16 years ago
The upper age limit was given as 8,000. Before jumping up and down I'd wait for scientific publication with details of field methods.
sequoia_stiffy
Original Author
16 years ago
Scientists carbon-dated bits of wood around it that had the exact same genetic make up (that is came from the same tree) and determined them to be 9500 years old. Either way, 8000, 9000, both are pretty amazing. I'll start jumping up and down with either one for chrissakes.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080416104320.htm
pinetree30
16 years ago
Thanks Stiffy for the link. This article is more informative than the one linked on the other thread (on Trees Forum). This article mentions, as I did in a post on the earlier thread, that the spruce is probably clonal. Yet Kullman is still quoted as saying the tree survives by "pushing out" a trunk when the older trunk is dying. This is pseudo-science I'm sorry to say. And if this happens due to rigorous conditions killing off the older trunk, then why would new growing tissue be better able to survive? Wouldn't it be tender and subject to freezing? Use your own experience as a guide.
As I pointed out on the other thread, if this is indeed clonal, it must compete for the age sweepstakes not with bristlecone pine but with Kings Holly of Tasmania, a clonal triploid shrub that matches 43,600 +/-years old macrofossils. We still need a more complete story here. But jump.
honymand
16 years ago
Hi,

I have to agree here. This is pretty much the same as a guy turning up telling me that he is 400 years old! If he claimed 150 I could theoretically believe him, but 400 no.

And the same goes for 8000 years old P. abies!

Anybody who knows the previously oldeest record age for P. abies ?

/Hans Olav
pineresin
16 years ago
"Oldest: Tree LBG in the Bavarian Forest of Germany had a crossdated age of 468 years" Â Gymnosperm Database

I wouldn't be surprised if some older ones could have existed; Pp. engelmannii, pungens and sitchensis all reach 600-800 years, and I don't see why P. abies shouldn't be similar. Might be gone now though with the long history of exploitation of P. abies.

Resin

Here is a link that might be useful: Gymnosperm Database: Picea abies
kingn8
16 years ago
They can carbon date all they want, but without a ring count it doesn't mean much to me.

Nate
honymand
16 years ago
OK, if the previously oldest P. abies are around 500 years, and assuming they could get to 600-800 years an age of 8,000 - 10,000 years seems completely ludicrous.

/Hans Olav

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