I have two giant pine trees. I can give you some hints. First of all - - the reason your plants didn't spread is because there's not much rain and/or water that gets under a pine tree. The huge needle mess is actually good - - it acts as a mulch and will help the plants you DO plant hold moisture. SO - - my advice: limb "up" your pine tree. Cut the limbs on the bottom of the pine tree up as high as you can. It will allow some sunlight and rain in under the branches. THEN, I'd plant shade plants that do not require a ton of water beneath the new limbed up tree. After the first year of transplanting a hosta, it does not need excessive water - - so a hosta is perfect. Water well the first year, then leave it alone thereafter and it should be fine. My advice is to forget the idea of getting special varieties of hosta. I'd go to Lowe's or Home Depot or WalMart (or a friends yard) and buy the largest pots of hosta you can get. Like the other plants you planted, the hostas will be very slow to grow unless it gets more regular water. Combat this by getting the largest hostas you can find up front. That way you'll have a good "look" without waiting 4 years for the hostas to fill in. They'll probably not need to be divided in the future, so you can just pop them in and enjoy. I do not have a picture right now, but my goal this year was to vary all my hostas. I have a dozen or so varieties throughout the garden - all mixed up and side by side. So you'll really see and understand the variation. Meaning, I've planted August Moon right next to Excelsior right next to Blue Angel right next to Sum and Substance right next to a dark green hosta, etc., etc., etc. The only thing I keep consistent: I put the taller varieties in the back. I've also got one pine tree surrounded by a "Fairy Ring". I put a ton of mixed hostas beneath the tree THEN added about 15 plants, a small miniature-yellow variety, that look exactly the same as an "edger" around the outside of the pine. It's gorgeous. The idea is that all my beds look very colorful, even though they get vary little shade. Just remember, if you plant a tiny hosta (or any other shade plant) it will not grow much larger due to the lack of water and sunlight they receive beneath a pine tree. GOOD LUCK! Also - on a final note - - depending on how much pine "mess" you have - if you gather up all the pine needles, it makes a wonderful liner for a path. You could dig a path somewhere - remove all the grass and make it about 3' wide - then fill in the path with the pine needles. It stays the same color year round, rarely grows mold or disease (pine needles are resistent) and is easy on the knees to walk on. Let me know how it turns out if you're interested in my ideas! Thanks, Shawna

In the Puget Trough Pinus contorta is basically a wetland indicator. I've stood in a stand east of Everett, WA where the winter high water mark on the trunks was well above my head. Associated species included Sitka spruce and red-twig dogwood. The same species can have marked differences in functioning within different parts of its range. For instance, Sambucus canadensis in the northern part of its range requires cold exposure for germination and in the southern part does not. Garry oak has no particular apparent soil or precipitation requirement, one of the largest WA examples I have been on hand to see measured was in one or two feet of mud - in some locations it can be seen mixed with Oregon ash in swamps. Annual rainfall totals throughout its range go from 13 in. to 103 in. What it does need is lack of competition and shading from other trees. Soil flora and fauna in all these different habitats must vary considerably. And of course ubiquitous local species such as Douglas fir must be growing under a very wide range of combinations, including which mycorrhizal fungi are present. So maybe Ponderosa pine is somehow able to function where the fungi that would be present in dry-lands are not represented.

I have the same situation as LoriAnn, a neighbour's four pine trees hanging over the fence on the northeast side of my property. I agree with gardengal. The real problem is finding plants that tolerate dry shade. This part of my garden is on a slope, further increasing the dryness. The pine trees grow above my garden on the slope. Solomon's Seal grows very well here, as does the native Blue Wood Aster (aster cordifolius).

I agree, plant the area with three ideas in mind. One to make it look natural, two to make it so you enjoy looking at it, and three plant it with the idea of attracting wild life. One of the most difficult things is to make a woods look natural. It takes time to work the area cutting the poison ivy and green briar, and similar plants while at the same time encouraging the good native plants like Virginia creeper, and the hundreds of other plant native to your area. To make it attractive I would add some flowering trees and bushes. Consider not only the flowers, but also the color of the foliage. While you are some distance north of us, we have placed azaleas and camellias. There are things like Hydrangea, lilac and such that also produce flowers. Lastly do things to encourage the wild life in your yard. While in some ways they are a pest squirrel are a lot of fun to watch as they jockey for position on the feeder, Flowers encourage Hummingbirds, again watching their dog fights is enjoyable. Flowers also encourage butterflies, You have not lived until you see a doe with two fawns and the fawns are bouncing around the yard and playing while the doe watches over them