Another thing that this thread keeps bringing back to the surface of my memory is that as a student (both in my early 20s and again in my mid 30s) it was surprising how many concepts were really difficult to understand. Many of these were those that seemed like the teacher was wading in nonsense until finally something broke through after much of the semester passed and the "Aha moment" finally hit. That is after several weeks of the same subject for six hours a week with direct interaction with both teachers and other students while working on excercises directly designed to get you to that "aha moment". That just points out the difficulty in teaching landscape design in short courses and especially in all in one comprehensive classes. You brush the surface of many subjects, but you can not expect to instill a great deal of knowledge in any of them. Classes like botany, geology, dendrology, soils, sociology, psychology, biology, and such were all taught in the usuaul 1 hour lecture hall twice or thrice a week format with some classes having a two hour lab. Design studio was three hours long three times a week with on going projects that kept students busy well into the night for their sophomore,junior, and senior years. Plant design, drafting & graphics, grading & drainage, and site engineering all met six hours a week with on going projects. There was a studio for each class year because we all had these on going projects that required the teaching and critiques to be done where we were working. This stuff was all taught through multiple projects that made us work through concepts and develop understanding. They were not taught in lecture halls because you could not get the same understanding from that format. It is not rocket science and it is not a gift. But it is a lot more conceptual than informational. While classes like geology and soil science are largely based on information which you can absorb through reading and lectures, design is not that way. You never get THE answer because there is no single answer. There are so many ways to get to a suitable conclusion that it takes having to go through a whole lot of excercises in doing things the way that you would not do them based solely on your own instincts in order to learn new things or potential pitfalls that you would not learn from going with your own way. In the end, you've done so many things in so many different ways that you can't help but to have learned to recognise situations and have learned a number of ways to address them. Those ways to address things are not off of a list, but based on experience and what you have developed as methods that you have become comfortable with and work well for you. It is still your own creativity and and style that drives everything, but you have more ways that you are comfortable with applying that creativity and more knowledge to go with it. The problem that most self taught people have is that they work within their own comfort zone. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but it has a high limitation on it. That limitation is that there is very little outside influences in either recognizing unfamiliar situations or in getting comfortable with other ways of dealing with things. One of my teachers, Professor Toru Otawa, would constantly say "you could do a master's thesis on that subject" when someone asked a question. Of course, he would answer the question, but we also could see what he meant by saying that. Most of us stay within our comfort zone once we get out and do this after school and after interning. The difference is that we were forced into situations that made us develop a wider comfort zone. I don't know how much sense this makes to a lot of people who have not gone through this. I expect that those who have will agree with this and those that have not will find a pile of reasons why this is not as good as the way they learned (I think that was standard rule #1 of messageboard posters that I mentioned very early in this thread).

Wow you are very determined to have stayed through all that abuse. I was a member of a community garden for 3 years and it was run very well-- even in the best of situations things like theft, and accidental damamge can occur. I would absolutely confront the manager of the garden. Perhaps not with a laundry list of complaints -- but a list of "I feel" - I'm very frustrated, I care very much about..." think it out - even write out what you want to say-- with a purpose in mind. It seems to me like it would be wise to have areas of the garden which could be claimed by gardeners, where they could claim a plot and then the produce, work, etc would all be theirs-- you might suggest this be a fenced area or some other kind of barrier so that helpful community workers couldn't run mowers over the fencing or barriers, and then suggest - general areas - in which things like blueberry bushes, community projects or more pernnial projects could take place. You may need to offer some really solid suggestions to problems you see-- ie..I did all this work and now the ground I worked on-- is covered with glass. I have been a valued memeber of the garden for years and for me this represents alot of work, I need to know this won't happen again-- so here is what I suggest as a possible solution. At the beginning of every spring I would be happy to help to divide up this area into individual plots and be responsible for "renting" out each staked off area to interested parties-- we can each have our own area- with returning gardeners getting to put a claim on the area they cared for last year as a first preference. In exchange I would like for you to explain to the worker on site that this is not an area of the garden that he is responsible for-- but that once a year after the stakes are removed he may mow it to the control the weeds. Perhaps your manager is overwhelmed or burnt out and doesn't have the energy or time for enforcing common courtesy, or simply doesn't see the need-- but for your sanity -- surely that is neccessary. That may be the reason there are only two surviving gardeners on the plot..I tell you the first time someone plowed over my carrots or put broken glass in ground that I had worked -- I'd be gone.. and if a healthy discussion -- and offering to take over or assist with the situation didn't help it in some way-- I'd bug out, or at least back down on the amount of energy I expended there. Like I said -- I used to be part of a community garden and it worked fabulously-- there were no fences, but some basic rules. Here is what we did-- someone was responsible for getting names and dividing up plots-- also for getting the entire area tilled, every year. We each paid some small amount for this-- I think it was $20 or something-- that funded the tiller rental & water useage. Each plot was about 12x12. If it was your first year- you could have one plot, unless there were extras--there was usually a waiting list. After you had kept a plot for a year- you could ask to have more than one and veterans got first dibs on spaces & on extra plots. There was a letter that was sent out every year with a map of the plots- on the map was the persons first name and phone number-- this made everybody accountable-- your space, your responsibility, and your produce. If your plot wasn't weeded or cared for next year you didn't get a plot-- if someone had a problem with something in a neighbors plot or a question you could call them-- you knew it, they knew it and it helped. Everybody had the managers # and could call them too. It was also nice cause if you were out working saturday - you could say hi to bob or sue or joe and you at least knew their name. The small amount of money paid out in spring was a way of seeing who was interested enough to do it- and got some buy in and-- helped to cover some of the costs. Every fall everything was broken down and there was an end of the year potluck and work party, and every spring it was all put up again...it was somewhat limiting-- but it did make it easier and it ran very smoothly. Rules were clearly written out -- they used cheap wooden stakes and string to mark the plots, and it was a wonderful sense of community-- a joy. Rules and respect are essential in most things-- community gardens are no exception. Good luck to you!

WOW! (that's for you, Carl!) What incredibly creative ideas from all of you -- I have to confess that a floating platform above a sea of ornamental grasses would never, ever have occurred to us! :) As for the view from the house, I'm not sure of the answer to that. I would think that some of the existing plants at the top (the miscanthus in particular) might end up relocating to the bottom to open up the line of sight from the house a bit, but in general, I think she is more interested in having a beautiful place to putter about in. I do think a small sitting area down there is probably a goal in the end... maybe just large enough for a chair and a little table (for the wine glass!) (I keep seeing that under the wild cherry for some reason ... maybe the concept of some shade on a warm summer afternoon?) She enjoys gardening but does work, so doesn't have unlimited hours to devote to maintenance (hence the low maintenance constraint). I think she is viewing this as something of an adventure that she's planning to take in stages, having fun along the way (the only way to do it, IMHO). "Revealing" that wall is the inspiration to start thinking of all the wonderful things to do with it... Having said that, she is also an organic gardener/consumer, and I think part of her goal is to have more sun-filled space to grow her own veggies. I actually like the idea of a trellis ... maybe a rustic twig-type design since I know she wants an informal look and feel ... for things to climb. She could also go for a look more like the kitchen gardens at Monticello -- more linear, but with the pole teepees for beans, etc. Gosh... so many options! I think I may have set you all to thinking too hard about the invasives (which are primarily the multiflora, but she lives on the same street I do, so I can imagine there is also plenty of other stuff just chomping at the bit to get started in that space. I do think keeping things at bay until she can tackle the lower area is important, so either black plastic for a year (and focusing on the wall area and a bed along there for now), or else a ground cover crop to hold soil and bide time (love the idea of vetch or clover or something that could be turned under next year AND provide tons of nutrients at the same time -- very environmental, non-chemical approach to soil enrichment!) So getting the invasives out because they are invasives was not the incentive here (though that would be a noble one!) ... that just happened to be what had filled in/taken over. Could just as easily have been massively overgrown rhodies or something hiding that wall, but it was multiflora instead. The current concern with not letting them return is as much a practical matter of not wanting to repeat the cost/effort of clearing the area a second time as it is a question of eradicating them for the sake of the natives. (As for mobility issues in getting down to the lower area to pick veggies, etc. ... this lady referees ice hockey games (adult and youth) every week, plus does yoga. She's a heck of a lot more fit than I am, so getting down to pick things isn't a problem...:) Thank you all for some fabulous suggestions and some good cautions and caveats. I think the idea of taking photos throughout the day is a good idea, too. She did watch the sun's travel across the area, but it would be good to document it, since I know how surprised I've sometimes been to discover that an area I was sure got partial shade in fact was sitting in full sun all day by mid-summer. And yes, there is deciduous woodland surrounding this area. And plenty of deer! So it's an interesting space with a lot of potential...an adventure it will certainly be! Thanks to all for the thoughtful responses! Will post photos as this evolves. Would make a very interesting gardening blog...

I've been in the position more than once of buying property with "wide open spaces" abutting it. Don't we all wish to see those spaces remain wide open? I know I do, lol. But, it never occurred to me that investigating the future uses of that land, or who owned it , was anybody else's responsibility than my own. Like somebody else said, caveat emptor in this situation. I have a similar scenario. My husband purchased some rural land for speculation. It was zoned unclassified when he purchased it. I have an agribusines, and felt comfortable with that, as I even considered it may be useful for part of my operations down the road, since it abutted a state route and had close proximity to an interstate interchange. As soon as we got our first tax statement, it had been reclassified as vacant commercial. What? LOL. Going to commercial zoning does change your tax liability. Since we owned this land, I don't even know how that was legally done. I chose not to fight it, however, as that status was a desirable situation for the land if you intended to sell it anyway. BTW, it was sold to a business at a decent profit. I'm not at all unsympathetic to your situation. I used to live close to the area you are buying in, btw. There are ways to gracefully integrate high end apartments and condos into communities without seriously impacting property values, but if it's not done with the present property owners interest's at heart, I can see how it could impact your property's future value. Should your realtor bear the responsibility of disclosure since you asked that question specifically? I dunno. If she/he hadn't researched it and didn't really know it was an honest answer, then it wasn't a failure to disclose and it may not even be considered a "fault", because that's a subjective call. It pretty much boils down to whether you want out of it badly enough to act on it and that's where an attorney comes in to the picture on breaking a contract as painlessly as possible. Good luck.