ams2009 - I am so sorry, I know what it is like to worry over these guys and feel responsible for them so much. I wish I knew what to suggest, hopefully someone else who is more on an expert will respond. I am keeping my fingers crossed that he will just decide to pupate since he is large in size. Good luck

Shannon

how is the little guy this morning?

Thanks Shannon, I am at a loss with this one on what to do. He is just sitting there, but has tried to eat, very hard, I am wondering if it would be best for him if I were to remove his leaves from his cage? I am also wondering what happens in nature during a scenario like this, example, in nature, if they are in their last instar and food is scarce or has run out on the host plant, I wonder if they respond by starting the process of pupation in order to survive, rather than continuing to search for food and putting themselves in risk of dying due to starvation/exhaustion?? I am hoping their natural instinct is to pupate in order to survive when the alternative would mean food deprivation and decrease their chances of carrying out their purpose. I may try removing his leaves because I am afraid it may be worse for him to keep trying to eat, maybe if he thinks there is no food his body will react and do what is best in order for survival?? I am torn between what would be best, removing his food, or if the little bit of nourishment he is getting from what he is able to scrape off is worth all the energy he is using in order to get it. Just when I thought they were all past the "critical" stages, all of his group is in the last instar, 4 of them purged last night and have hung their sling, so I think that is a positive sign, because it would mean he too should be pupating around the same time as the rest of his bunch, there are 7 more, besides him, from his group, that have not pupated, but they should be purging any time now, and, the ones who have pupated have all varied in size, one was so small i was very surprised when I saw that he had purged, because I had others that I would have expected to start the process first. I think he is still able to produce his silk, because last night it looked like he was walking around and moving his head back and forth laying down silk, so I was happy to know that if he does get the urge to pupate, he will be able to hang his sling and cremaster, I am hoping and praying he will start prepuation process soon, I am worried about the fact that he is getting smaller pretty fast, so the quicker the better I would think, I will be devastated if he made it this far and doesnt survive. so sad

again I really hope someone else weighs in but it does seem to me like the natural thing would be for them to go ahead and pupate in this situation. i really wish I knew what to suggest!! fingers crossed.

shannon

Like you said, he may be getting some nutrition, so I wouldn't remove the leaves. Just keep the fresh leaves available to him. That's about all you can do. He might not make it, but then again he might. You are doing all you can right now.
Please keep us posted.

Well, he sat in same spot all day (which could be normal seeing as how they sometimes do that anyway) and about an hour ago I checked on him and he was trying to eat again so I got a brand new leaf for him and held it still while he tried to eat it, and he actually was able to tear some of it off so he ate a little bit, he has only had like 3 or four pieces of frass in his cage since about 48 hours ago, in fact, that was one reason I looked a little closer at him, when I went to clean cages and noticed that his had hardly any frass in it. Also, his frass is really dark, and I am wondering if that is because he is probably a little dehydrated since he hasn't been able to eat much. His mouthparts seem to work occasionally when he is trying to eat, and this evening, he did better and was able to tear off more pieces, so maybe he is figuring out how to get around his problem, or maybe he was just so hungry he worked a little harder, I am going to see if he will try and eat some more in a little while, poor thing, I think he gets worn out pretty quick having to work so hard for so little food. he also, seemed to chew a bit on the stem, which was really tender, and it looked like he was able to pull some pieces off of it too, so hopefully he will adjust and adapt in order to get what he needs, he is trying really hard, that is for sure. thanks! I will keep you guys posted!

I went to a local nursery today and spoke with the manager, who was very helpful, they had a variety of citrus trees there which he told me had been there for quite some time, and should be safe for my gst cats to eat. So i purchased an Improved Meyer Lemon tree, it has lots of new growth on it, and I remember reading that GSTs like the leaves of this tree, i think. Anyway, the manager at the nursery told me that the only required insecticide or pesticide by the state of louisiana for citrus trees, is sprayed onto the leaves, and that it is not a systemic type, so that was good to know, Missherry had mentioned that was probably the case seeing as how a systemic could contaminate fruit of citrus. I have already ran out of new growth on my second navel tree, I thought it would last me until these cats pupate, but did not happen, so now I have some more host leaves for the remaining cats, I am just going to make sure I rinse the leaves thoroughly before I give to the cats, to make sure there is nothing left on them that could harm them. THe cat with the damaged mouthparts was able to eat a little today, he seems to be able to eat the stems better than the leaves, I cut little slits along the tender stems, and pinch them to where pieces are still attached but easier for him to pull off, I am hoping this will get him through, he has not given up, and seems to be fine, just hungry, poor guy. There are only two left from his group that have not purged and started hung sling, so I am hoping that he is getting enough nourishment in order to pupate, he doesn't pass hardly any frass, maybe once per day, but he hasn't lost as much weight as I would have figured since he is eating so little, so maybe his body is hanging on to all it can and that is why he isn't passing much frass or waste. He also doesn't move much at all unless he is trying to eat, so he isn't wasting his energy, I am hoping that he will make it, surely he cannot starve to death if he is getting some nourishment everyday. And maybe he will adjust better in order to eat more with each day. I have driven myself crazy trying to figure out what happened to him, because I cannot think of how in the world he ended up with part of his face missing. Unless maybe it was deformed to begin with and I did not notice, and just deteriorated with time, because up until a few days age, he was able to eat just like the rest, so it doesn't make sense. His cage is not real deep and I have papertowels at the bottom, so he could not have fallen and injured himself, there are no other cats in there with him, and he isn't one of my free spirit cats that try to escape frequently, I don't think I have ever found him on the tulle that encloses his little habitat, and had to move him back inside, he has been one of the easy ones that stay put, so I just don't know what in the world could have happened to him, and i wonder if he is in pain, because it looks like he is missing part of his face or mouth, could he have injured himself while eating?? and if so, how? I wish I could find info about this, but haven't been able to, just wondering if it could be a disease, or even a parasite that would cause this type of deformity. SInce i do not know what is wrong with him, I am keeping him a good distance from the others, just in case.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions on how to make it easier for this guy to eat, please let me know, I will try anything. cutting slits into the sides of the stem seemed to help him out a bit. I watched him trying to eat the middle stem of the leaf earlier, and noticed he had eaten about an inch of it, but then he moved his had back and all of it came out of his mouth, so apparently he was able to get it into his mouth but was unable to sever it and could not swallow it. I have tried cutting slits into the sides of his leaves, not sure if that has helped out though, and i also tried cutting a leaf up into tiny pieces like the size they sever off when they eat, but apparently, he only knows to "tear" pieces off and either physically cannot, or hasn't figured out how to eat little pieces that are already torn off. Like I said, if anyone can think of something that might help, I will try it, so let me know!! And thanks

Good news!! He is eating again, idk what changed, but he is eating the new lemon tree leaves and doesn't seem to be having too much trouble at all now, maybe they are easier for him to eat, anyway, i don't care, I am just so happy that he is eating, and able to eat!! I have worried so much about him suffering. Only this guy and one more are left from his group now, the rest have either pupated or hung their slings and about to pupate, so if he keeps eating like he is right now, i feel sure he will make it, what a relief!

That's so good to know. Thanks for keeping us posted. We were right there with you in your concern for the little guy.

Here is a link that might be useful: My Blog

I haven't had any GST cats this year, but it does seem like sometimes they will stop eating for a while even if they are not going through an instar or pupating. GST cats are slow eaters anyway, unlike some other voracious eating cats I could mention. Sounds like you did the best you can with it...good deal!

He purged yesterday,finally, and has hung himself in the sling, so I am so happy as it looks like he made it and will get to be a butterfly after all. :-)