You're probably thinking of the Ackerman Camellias. Dr. Ackerman started his cold-hardy breeding program about 20 years ago, and they're beautiful! Flowers are smaller than japonica, more like sasaqua, but delicate & beautiful. I'm in western Maryland, so the climate is probably similar to yours. Even after some hard winters, my 'Winter's Star' is blooming beautifully, right now! By the way, I've found Spring planting to be much more successful for these than fall planting.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr Ackerman's camellias

I am also growing some of the Ackerman hybrids, along with Japonica Kumasaka... As far as the Ackerman's go, I usually wait until the night temps are regularly falling into the low twenties or upper teens before I wrap them.. I just build a wire cage around them and then wrap the cage with burlap... For extra protection, especially on spring blooming varieties, I was told that you could fill the enclosure with DRY oak leaves to insulate the blossoms which are not as cold hardy as the plant. I would also spray with wilt-pruf now.
In addition, if you live around the Great Lakes, our summer temps are not as warm as say Maryland or New York City, so you want to buy an early blooming variety of Ackerman's- maybe "Winter Rose," "Winter Charm." so that you are assured at least some bloom. The later blooming vatieties usually never bloom well because by the time they are ready to bloom it is usually well below freezing. If you purchase a hardier Spring bloomer, look for one that is mid-late blooming and protect extensively to save the blossoms. The early blooming spring bloomers will want to bloom at a time when the weather has not warmed up sufficiently and when they should still be protected under brulap, thus ruining most or all of the buds. The late bloomers will usually bloom in late March to April depending on the variety, microclimate and temps. good luck...

Thanks! Our climate has warm end of February, long cool spring (last frost around May,7), short hot summer (July-August up to 34oC/94oF, first frosts -4oC/24oF in October and above frost November. Any other advise?
What location would be better in winter: north in shade of the house (dappled shade in summer) or sunny south side, protected from morning sun up to 4ft/1.1m only by deck stairs?

In my opinion, if you live in the "city" you could probably get away with planting Camellias on any side of the house- I have... Though they will need extra protection if facing the SW. When the ground is frozen, and you begin to receive more sunlight in Feb/Mar, camellias can get toasted. Anyway you do it, make sure they do receive some shade... especially in the morning, when temps are the coldest. Also, 1.) Try to plant within 6ft of your foundation, preferrably brick, 2.) don't plant under deciduous shade, but under a canopy of white pine or hemlocks- to benefit from the acid needles and the canopy which prevents heat from escaping from the ground, finally 3.) Mulch well, with something dry... Oak leaves, Pine needles, Too much moisture causes rot... I've caused more death to my camellias than the cold has....

Yes, this is the city, lowrise part of downtown, warm but windy.

The area at south is just 7ft long, may be not enough space for evergreen and camelia, even small. On the good side, it is at 5 ft from the brick wall.

I'm concerned about too much heat during the day it the winter (freezing/thawing cycle), even for wrapped in burlap plant. Also this spot is very sunny in the summer too, will it do good for camelia?
50% shade cloth (green mesh really) what I have may help somehow...

North side is twice longer (13 ft) at the same 5 ft from brick wall. Matter of concern is that it is colder in winter and warms in the end of April only, when shade from house goes away. Total shade in the winter, L-shaped protected spot.

What about of wrapping for the winter for bud protection and when to unwrap for the blooming time?
Thanks again!

Wow, good to hear from someone else trying to grow camellias in Toronto. I'm in Mississauga, and have been growing them since 1990 more or less. There's lots of interest in cold hardy camellias at the Toronto Rhododendron Society, which I am a member of, so you might want to attend some or our meetings. Last year I gave away a whole bunch of seedlings and seeds from Dr. Ackerman and members are trying to grow them to see how they do here in S.Ontario. Especially important to find out if camellias from seed, with that long 18" tap root offers some protection from the winter elements thru ability to take up H20 vs. fibrous roots that the industry produces when tap root is clipped. Anyways, I usually start wrapping them in December, I can't find microfoam here but at Home Depot they have this bubbly plastic I use to wrap them around some stakes, wire mesh would be better. Whatever you do, don't ever let the leaves that you pack the enclosure with, come in contact with the trunk bark. You know how much snow we get, well, it'll matt down all those leaves and all that moisture will just rot the thin bark off, camellia bark is more "tender" or something compared to young rhodos. Hard to explain. If you do let the leaves come in contact with the bark over the winter, when you go to remove that mulch in the spring, you'll find the bark will slim off like pieces of cellophane. Oh, also, big problem in my garden is some critter that loves to chew on the bark at the base of my plant. I tried a whole bunch of liquid products on the market in Toronto that promise to deter pests and I didn't find it helped. In fact, no sooner than I had sprayed that stuff, those squirrels would be on my rhodos picking off the flower buds. It's gross, if you ever taste it, you'll wonder how they can stand it but if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I would have never believed it. I'm in the city, don't think its rabbits, maybe red squirrels, but the only thing that prevents that is rose collars secured around the base. Also, if you want fall blooms, get some 0-10-10 liquid and start applying in Sept., it really stimulates the flower buds to open up before December. Rona carried it as tomato booster but that was ok with me as long as it said 0-101-10. I think Sheridan carries some 0-10-10 or Woodland Nurseries in Mississauga.

Sasanquas do best on south side, I had one but it died after my evestrough had a nail pop out and all the snow from the roof thru the winter dripped right on top of "Survivor", leaving a frozen lake around its base. It was beautiful, 5and half feet tall and when she bloomed in October, gosh I think ever wasp that was still alive in my neighbourhood was on that plant. It was covered in white blooms. I also have some camellias on the north side, they always did well until this past winter, had major dieback but have regrown. After all these years, I believe that the hardiest camellia there is "Plain Jane" in North America. Next is "Survivor". Unfortunately, I don't think its widely sold but Camellia Forest Nursery is the best place I think to buy cold hardy camellias and also the Camellia Society of Potomac Valley. It's not expensive to join.

Good question whether they will bloom during the winter if they're warm and covered up. I have never seen that happen here. Mostly they wait until spring comes.

A nursery in Brampton, something like Heartlake Garden Gallery used to carry them, ie Winters Rose and Snow Flurry but I don't know lately with the ban on plants coming from the west coast states because camellias were hosts for phytophthora ramorum. Best is grow them from seed.

If I get some Plain Jane seeds this winter, I'll email you and send some to you, if you'd like with instructions on germination.

I've seen cold hardy camellias sold for under 10 bucks, one gallon in northern states at Home Depot. Wouldn't it be wonderful if they carried them here? I really think that if you live south of the QEW, you can grow them, especially if you live like in St. Catherines, Grimsby, or the Niagara area. Folks just haven't tried them.

Good luck
Mary

Thank you very much for the info for Toronto area, MaryD!
I would certainly would like to acquire from you seeds to try, when you will have them, just let me know then.

Do you know good Canadian mail-order nurseries for hardy camellias?

Did I assumed right, that spring-blooming C.japonica will better be planted at the Northarn side and fall blooming C. sasanqua at the south side?

When you usually wrap and unwrap on the North and South sides, what are criteria to watch for?

I'm in East Toronto, Bloor line level, and have space for only 2-3 camellias.

Thanks again!

Mary D-
I can't find Microfoam anywhere... Does it matter if it is Microfoam, or is the Bubble wrap you purchased just as effective??? I was told that Kumasaka was one of the hardiest Japonicas and it would only survive here if 1.) placed them within 6 ft of the brick (which I did), in partial shade under white pines, and 2.) either wrapped them in Microfoam or made a wire enclosure around it and stuffed it with oak leaves... But, I don't have enough oak leaves and I was also concerned about excessive moisture from snowpack during the winter rotting the camellias... I've killed more Camellia's on my own then the cold has... Your advice would be appreciated.

Mary D:
one more question - about rose collars aganst squirrels. How it works? I thought they can just climb, using this green mesh as ladder. I planted 3 small rhodos and 2 Northern Lights azaleas this year, and will be grateful for any advice to help them survive.

Hi,
Well, I buy the rose collars that are plastic and look like netting. Then I cut them, so they're about 6 inches tall and secure them around the base with popsicles sticks going between the spaces. Kind of hard to explain. For some reason, they only chew the bottom 6 inches of the bushes, either camellias or my rhodos. Maybe you don't have the same problem. But anyways, I do it also because when I put my dry oak leaves around the base as a mulch in winter, I don't want the oak leaves being pushed down against the bark, the rose collar keeps them away so theres a pocket of air, circulation around the base. Oh, I also tried for a few years those styrofoam hats you can buy at Sheridan or Home Depot but I was too stupid to realize they need some light during the winter. Great protection but they were dead by spring. So I cheat. I still use them on my smaller plants, cut out "windows", and then tape some clear plastic for shade or white plastic for plants in the sun. Then I'll put a plastic bag over that so its more airtight. When temps go over 0C and if I remember, I'll take the hat off to give them air. Probably too much work for most folks but if you've ever seen camellias down south, gosh it is worth it. Once they're bigger, you have to use the cage or stakes method enclosed in some plastic, the top you kind of roll up and close off with clothes pins and then take the close pins off on warm days to open the cage up. If you forget, the plant still will be okay. Oh, I tried Kumasaka two years in a row, never made it, I think too tender for us, even though back then I planted the poor things in full sun and they got scorched. So who really knows but I won't waste money on them again. If you get one cheap or free, I'd definately plant it on the north side-being a japonica. Also, keep them close to a wall, so the soil doesn't really freeze that deep down. You know, sometimes right next to the wall, the soil never freezes, but then you get the problem that the evesthrough or whatever you call those things cover that part of the ground and you have to supply extra water in the summer, snow in the winter. Mine are all within 3 feet of the walls. Yes, sasanquas love the sun, I've had as much as 18" of growth in a season, but you'll need to give them shade for the winter- white plastic or burlap. I sure hope you can grow a rhodo well because they really need the same conditions, good acidic soil. Most folks just don't add enough peat moss, you need copious amounts, even better is composted pine bark. Theres a place near Trafalgar Rd. and Britannia in Oakville that sells it, forget the name- Bark something. You can also buy lots of pine bark in the bags and let them naturally compost, will take a year or two, but that stuff is perfect. No, unfortunately I don't know any Canadian sources, I know Nettlecreek nurseries has a few- they're in the Niagara area- but I don't know if she would sell them. Sometimes, these garden gallery nurseries- sometimes carry them, I always check the camellias out because you never know if they got some in.
I wish I had some microfoam but it's quite a drive to Washington, DC. Have any of you ever seen their Asian Garden section with all the hardy camellias? Unbelievable. Folks in New Jersey and Long Island grow them well, and it can get pretty cold there too. Only problem is that our winter is so much longer than theirs which is a concern.
Forgot to tell you that Rona last year carried the tallest styrofoam cones I have ever seen. When my kid gets home from school, I'll see if they can post a picture of Survivor blooming with snow on it in Nov. I had that plant for 10 years, until my evestrough busted and all the water leaked down around the base and the thing got frozen in a lake during Jan/Feb. Broke my heart.
Doniki, if i get some seeds, would you like some?

Mary D-
Thank you for the offer, I would love some seeds if you had some... I have three Kumasaka's in the ground now, within three feet of my brick house, In an "L" area of brick. I bought them this summer in Statesville, North Carolina. (I was told that was a hardy Japonica type to try). I have read and heard of it growing in Connecticut.

Doniki,
Ok, if I get a shipment, I will email you.
Mary

There seem to be many experts here so forgive my relative ignorance:

I would like to start growing a couple of camellias (white) on a south-facing New York terrace on a high floor. Boxwoods have done well here, surprisingly - container-grown, of course.

The Ackerman camellias seem to be the way to go. But what's with this long taproot - I would have used containers about 20" wide and the same deep. Might that work?

And regarding wrapping for protection, on the subject of boxwoods (I know we're in Camellias, but you could probably help): is it true that burlap, if wrapped around boxwoods, should not actually touch the leaves, and why? Snowfall has not been a big problem in the city, but the biting winds and exposure are.

I would appreciate your advice.

Many thanks for the information, MaryD! Great forum!

Freshdesign, when camellias are grown from seed, they develop this long tap root, I've dug some young plants out on occasion and that root can be 18-24 inches long, maybe even longer. Kind of like oak trees. But you can't possibly sell camellias with this long tap root winding around and around the bottom of the pot, gets pot bound and more transplanting problems. So, the industry clips that tap root when its quite short, so that it is forced to develop a fibrous root system, so you can sell it. Kind of like rhodo root system. But the good thing about growing camellias from seeds is that perhaps when the soil freezes more deeply like in my cold Canadian climate, that long root can still take up water, chances are the root will still be below frost line. You can imagine with a flat, fibrous root system the frost will freeze the roots more likely and the plant is more prone to winters dehydration effects.
I can't comment on you growing camellias on the balcony but I think you might be able to get away with it if you grow the hardier Ackerman winter series. Maybe insulate the pot with styrofoam like we do here for hardier shrubs like hicks yews.

Sorry - I now live in Toronto and I'm a very new gardener. Are we in Zone 6A here? Sorry for the newbie question... I'm trying to learn ; )

I am in 4-seasons spring area. I can only offer you possible another option. You do dream to grow typical camellia flowers, as you observed somewhere. You might have to modify your demand yet you could possibly enjoy the camellia flowers without extra worry, not Camellia japonica species or hybrids but other Camellia species.

There are about 250 Camellia species, japonica is just one of them. Usually the species flowers are single, small to medium in size. They can give a good duration of massive display of flowers. The camellia flower is just very attractive. I know some Camellia species grow at 4,500 to 10,000 feet elevation in high mountains in central China. The area has freeze weather. This is more of trial move if You want to. Do some web site searching and give it a shot.

Hi Mary,

Do you think you can sell some camellia seeds to me? i'm very interested, please email me at m_hsiaoo@hotmail.com
i'm located in richmond hill in toronto

mark

There is a large camellia growing on the south side of a house in my neighborhood, next to the foundation. It gets full sun all year round and the owners offer it no protection of any kind. It is a spring blooming variety, with large red blossoms in April. I just looked at it the other day and the leaves facing the sun are slightly burned, but otherwise OK. This location is on the south coast of Massachusetts, not far from Newport RI. Slightly cooler than Long Island in winter but warmer than Toronto. But again, this plant is large and gets no protection, so I would think they would do well in areas with colder winters if some protection is provided.

Hi Mary,
I am also interested in buying seeds. Can you email me at lochbonny@sympatico.ca to discuss. I was also reading about "Winters Interlude" (it says on an Ackerman site that it is hearty to -26C. What do you think? You said you thought Plain Jane and Survivor are the most hearty. I want to use hearty camellia's as a privacy hedge to block out neighbour's house on the West. How high will they grow?
Thanks alot!

Annie