I've read that crabapple trees can be planted under, and the 20' x 25' one in our back yard has no surface roots at all after 30 yrs. The only thing I've planted under it is a Kousa 8 ft. away from its trunk and didn't run into problems digging out any underground root masses (unlike my maples, which have awful roots above & underground). There are lots of very disease-resistant varieties out now; some are dwarf like 'Camelot' (10 ft.). I understand 'Robinson' is one of the fastest growers. If you cut & paste this link, and scroll down to the chart, it gives a lot of valuable info on many of the new crabapples out there: http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/trees-new/cultivars/mallus_hybrids-table.html

I also had some grass and lots of roots under a maple that is out by the roadside. I finally saved all the leaves in the fall and tossed them under the tree out to the drip line. The next year all had mulched down and I planted in some cinnamon fern, hostas, columbine, New England Asters, Sweet Annie and Sweet (a guys name) Something-else-that-I-forgot and several mint varieties. The mint is welcome as it filled in and under that tree and was just beautiful. Now the other plants have grown well and if the mint tries to get out of hand I only spend a few minutes once a year and yank it out at random and everything seems to be happy. If I were you I would just pop in a bit of this and some of that just to see how well things do - anything is better than the scraggly grass that is for sure! The one thing I like about the mint is that it smells sooooo good when the cats wander under the tree or the soccer balls from the grandkids roll over it! There is nothing that can hurt it and it always makes a good showing! I notice that when the neighbors walk past they put out their hands and let them pass thru the mint just so that they can smell the frangrance that wafts up! I almost forgot to say that every fall we rake up the leaves, run the mulcher mower over them and toss them under the tree and after 8 years of doing this the soil under there looks great even tho the roots come to the surface. Whatever you do you can't go wrong! Happy gardening! Cheers - Kiwi

I see that and I think that one of two things happened. Either the tree was constricted somehow, of delayed graph rejection. I have a relative that moved a small oak tree, then put a coffee can around it to keep the weedeater away from it. Guess what, they NEVER removed the can. About 10 years later their nice tree came down when a tornado went close by. While looking at the tree, I found metal was in the trunk, and asked about it. That's when the coffee can story came out. Now this tree probable did not have a coffee can, but it may have had nylon binding or some other constriction object that was not removed at planting time. I agree with digging up as much as you can to find whatever clues exist. It also occurs that a graft can do this same thing upon occasion. The tissues never fully mesh and try to encapsulate one another, resulting in a spreading line of swelling. This can go on for many years before eventual failure. Some tree species are much more prone to this, than others. Which brings us to the question, what kind of tree was this. Lastly, cross post to the "trees" forum with some pictures of whatever you find on escavating. There are professionals that spend time there that may be of more help. Arktrees

Tom, I have always enjoyed manual labor and getting dirty. :) Very good point Embothrium. My whole yard is made from "fill sand". It is straight sand with no soil or organics. Looking at the local topography it's probably at least 15-20' deep. Under that may be some clay and organics as the Anclote River is near by. The sand most likely was over burden from phosphate mining here FL but could have just as easily come from sand mining. So I assume the sand is going to easily drain. The soil I use to replace the sand is also fast draining but of course contains organic material and probably packs looser than the sand. You are absolutely right that I am forcing some larger plants to deal with different types of soil as their root systems grow. My experience is most plants don't do well starting out in sand, so I let them start in better soil and make the move to sand after they are larger. Obviously not the best solution but a compromise that works most of the time. If you have any suggestions of a better way, I would appreciate hearing them. Cause digging out wet heavy sand is hard work. :) Anna