I had emailed him to try to find who the hybridizer was and how long he had it and some background on his "brug experience" I have yet to get a reply!? Filthyriches cousin??? Friend or cohort perhaps?
Beware guys!

I'd have to agree with Tom on this one! Seems a little too 'fishy' to me! Didn't I just go through this with a pic of mine someone had 'borrowed' without my permission? It is & can be done!

Mike

ps: lol@Filthyriches cousin??? Too funny Linda!!

I agree that this is not what it claims to be. Tom what are you talking about $50 shipping? I wonder under what rock this seller crawled out from? Some people are such sh*ts!
Karyn

So grrrnthumb, if this was a photo taken from ABADS site should ABADS do something about this? I'm not touching this with a ten foot pole and your a member there???

Actually - after checking each of the seller's pics - they ALL have come from the ABADS site! "Hawaiian Double White' & 'Mrs. Chambers' are also from their site. I'd like to know how the seller covered up the copyright on each picture! That totally stinks!

Mike

Karyn the link Kylie posted is to a single-plant auction. He also has 3 more auctions with 5 plants each. I see he's changed those now down to $9.55 shipping.
Might be Ebay clamped down on him a little when some of us complained. I believe they frown very heavily on excess shipping, mostly I think because it dilutes their cut.

Karma I did email Ebay with a link to the original uncropped photo, but from what I've heard lately it's a waste of time. They will only pull a pic if it has been used previously in an Ebay auction.
Some little weasley lawyer probably told them they can just pretend like it's these are all just equal copyright disputes that they can't possibly decide, so they don't have to bother trying.
It's just spitting in the wind. :^(

Oh, I would love to have a pretty double yellow or orange like that, too bad it not for real. By the way, I got greedy and bought two double white from Mark, and all I want is a tiara. The other one he describe is in a one gallon and it sound also similar to a tiara. Does anyone want to trade with me? I don't need two double white.

grrrnthumb. then you need to get whomever gave the photos to ABADS to complain. Where is the President on this one and he should be screaming at ebay.

I asked him if it was Golden Star, a yellow/gold double hybridized by Dorothea Langenberg, Germany or Angels Golden Stardust, yellow double hybridized by Anne Kirchner-Abel, Germany or a different one?

He answered. It is Golden Stardust.

Anybody gonna bid? I want a cutting & there is another auction.

Linda

Oops, I just noticed. There is no Golden Stardust. Duh.

Linda

Be careful Linda, there is no telling what you will get since you seem to be the only one he has answered emails from inquiring about it.

You'll probably get a nice white or pink noid Linda, if that's worth the money. Did you see that he also has only 1 feedback?

Karma don't worry, we have screamed at Ebay. :^) The problem is that it just doesn't matter to them anymore. They're big enough not to have to do anything. You would need to sue them to force their hand, and they know they can easily manufacture enough confusion for it to be impossible to prove they were intentionally allowing stolen copyrights.
- Tom

If you look at what he has listed and sold in the past he has listed white pink and yellow brugs (no-name) Georgia Peach with stolen pic and a purple angel trumpet...NOT! It was a datura! This guy has only 1 feedback with all he has sold!? Something wrong with that picture for sure.

Tom, did ebay ever answer you after you sent them the link to the original photo? Just curious...I would HOPE that would prove the pic was stolen. What a slime that guy is. And I sure hope everybody knows if you buy plants from people using stolen pics, you ain't gonna get the plant that's in the pic...

Well then it's time we all start emailing those that post stolen photos and let ebay know that way?? If we all do this and they can't sell what is there, fraud comes to mind?

Maybe ABADS needs to redo their photos and put names on them to the point that they can't be stolen??

I emailed him about another listing he had and asked him to please to let us know where he obtained his plants from since they had never been offered in the U.S. and set our minds at ease so we could bid and he never wrote me back again. I won't touch his stuff with a ten foot pole, lol.

Kristy

You get a pat on the head, chocolate eclair, ice cream & alot of brug hugs! I hope no one gets ripped off here! I haven't heard from Barry in awhile & I hope he's not bidding......

Mike

Mike it looks like he did get lynnbrad for a 5-plant auction, but I'm not sure who that is.
Wildflower we haven't heard back from Ebay yet, but they say they'll respond within 48 hrs.
Karma I've been thinking the same thing about a better copyright. Perhaps a very transparent watermark that could go right over the flower, or perhaps one of the digital watermarks. The trouble is that they're all meaningless unless Ebay will honor them. I've been told it's their policy not to care about copyrights unless a pic has been used in an ebay auction before. I'm not sure how to overcome that.

Lol, Mike. I wish there was some way to let people know about things like this on ebay. New people might not know any better about what is unusual like that and to ask questions.

Don't worry, I'm not going to either. I read the name wrong (sorry, I was excited). I really want a nice double yellow.

Linda

Ebay will remove a photo is the original owner of the photo writes them and offers irrefutable proof that they are the owner. I don't know what comprises irrefutable proof in their eyes, but you're right, they generally don't care anymore. I don't shop or sell there anymore.

grrrnthumb, not only a watermark but ABADS needs to be on them if they are coming from that site! You need to protect what has been submitted to you as a society??
If enough of us know then we won't bid and we all can email not only the seller but ebay?

BGI as well as Mark (trigger) have a good system of watermark.. it's right across the flower ..BUT it is undisputable whose photo it is..If I were to see a photo up that I knew belonged to someone else or it was marked I would question it or if no credit was given with permission I would contact that person/society in the event that I could..I knew when this guy told me he didn't know what a X was something was up...LOL
Kylie

I absolutely agree Karma. We have contacted Ebay, threatened the seller, and are reviewing our copyright marking policy. If you have any more ideas I'd love to hear them! :^)

Junkyardgirl are you sure that is still the current Ebay policy? I've been told they had a somewhat recent change from the old policy, but I don't know it for a fact.

What do you all think of watermarks on top the actual flowers? I really hate to go that far because it really seems to distract from the beauty of the photo, but do we have no choice anymore? It seems like if we don't put it right through the main part of the flower that they can just crop it off.

- Tom

You posted while I was typing Kylie, thanks for the suggestion. :^) It looks like they have a mix of both old & new styles. Those watermarks they use sure are conspicuous. I guess there is no choice really in the times we live in.
Do you all have any thoughts on the difference between a watermark, which is visible, and a digital watermark, which is proveable but not visible?
- Tom

Tom, I agree, I think you should do a transparent watermark right over the flower. If it's transparent enough to see the flower's details, but still visible enough to have proof of ownership. Can't ABADS do what othr sites do, and when someone tries to steal a copy of the pic, have that warning come up that you're not allowed to, and halt the process. Or like what happened with Barry's lil to-do, lol..have some crazy pic come up in it's place? Imagine that, some gay porn pic coming up on thieves' auctions? They'd def get kicked off ebay, lol. This photo stealing, and fraud is beyond ridiculous. Have you heard from Ebay yet?

I haven't sold on Ebay myself in a few years, so I am not up to date on their policies, I can't help with that.

Is this auction still going on?

Daniella

They never got back to me directly, but it looks like they suspended his account (which means they recommend not paying him). I think it worked! Thanks for the help everyone. :^)
- Tom

Tom

Have you checked out Seedsprout's (Brenda's) watermark? I think it's a good one. Clearly marked & doesn't distract from the bloom itself. A very nice watermark to consider. :)

Mike

SeedSprouts is good ...unmistakeable but isn't right in your face.. I think it will be a good move and will hopefully avoid another incident.. All of this is time consuming..and there never seems to be enough hrs in the day to get things done as it is..
Tom GOOD JOB!!! Glad ebay pulled him.. Wonder what his next name will be...LOL
Kylie

If some would post or send me the link I'll go pay him a visit. I'd ask if I could come see them as I live 10 mins from Kingwood and I'm a nosy ole lady. Besides I'd like to know what he says or who he is for that matter :)

Jan

Jan

lol! I can see it now! "Hi! I'm tropical_nut from gardenweb & I'd like to see your brugs!" I wonder if it would fly?? :)

Mike

I'll let you know if I hear back from him. Yes I sent him an em asking him if I could some see his brugs as perhaps I could buy some before he listed them on ebay.

Don't think the name tropical_nut would bother him or anyone else, my neighbors know I'm a nut most of the times.
I'm sure not your typical granny when I run around in a jacked up truck looking for plants in off the road nurseries :)..... Been stuck on dirt roads more than once so learned a lesson - when in doubt drive the 4x4.

There is another auction going on now on ebay for a Rosalla
(220222205896) (seller - 910shell1) with only a feedback of 2. Does anyone know anything about this plant or seller? Perhaps FR has lots of cousins? I have never seen it offered in the US

Linda that's a gorgeous brug but I wonder where they got it from? They've never sold anything before but they have bought some really nice plants, mostly aroids and foliage I think. I just don't think I'd be comfortable buying an expensive rare brug from an unknown. BTW has anyone had blooms on any of the plants they got from FR? None of mine have bloomed yet but the plants are beautiful. I figure this way, even though they aren't what was advertised it was 5 really nice cuttings for not much money. It could have been worse.
Karyn

I personally want to thank everyone for their work in getting this scumb bag off ebay. I'm thinking we need to start a 'Brugmansia Most Wanted' list?? We are going to see more of this as these plant become the 'IN' plant to have and sell as they are going for top dollar on ebay.
I have stated before that photos should have names on them and if you can do a watermark across them it's a good thing to do. Also if you share with a group, ABADS, BGI or posting on a site put @ and the groups name with date in the bottom corner. That way you are protecting yourself
and making sure they understand this was shared and you have the rights. It's time we seriously think about how we do things not only here but with the groups we belong to???

Linda several people do have Rosalla in the US. Some with pods already waiting for the next generation. :^)
- Tom

Tom
Do you know anything about the seller? And are you the one I bought my bearded iris from?---If so thank you!! Sun or shade? Everyone tells me they do not do well in FL--I want to prove them wrong!

Good to hear about Rosalla.. I was looking at it an wondering...LOL Best of Luck to whoever can afford the thing!!!lol
Kylie

Linda no I don't know who the seller is. Iris wasn't from me, I don't like 'em, lol. My wife loves them, but I hate to weed around them.

Kylie I'm not sure that auction is legit, I just know the plant is in the US. I personally would not buy from someone who just started their account a month ago and has never sold anything yet, unless maybe I knew them personally.
- Tom

Tom I contacted the seller and ask a few questions here is the response I got...Seems like a nice person ..I'm not bidding but I will be watching!!
Kylie

Hi no thats alright I totally understand,This brug hybridizer is Anne Kirchner Abel out of germany,,its a nice brug seems to take a bit longer to bloom than some other brugs out their.The only down side to this brug is the cuttings seem to not root very well compared to other brugs,,I took 20 cuttings last year 5 of them rooted and the rest rotted away,,so yes this is the true Rosalla that came out of germany,,I paid last year $286 for one six inch plant, But anyways if you have any more questions feel free to send me a e-mail,,Take care_Jason.

Kylie, Have you tried air layering it?

Linda

That's interesting Kylie. That could be true, but it would also mean he had to start a whole new Ebay identity for some reason, because his current one is only a month old.
I can think of lots of reasons for starting a new Ebay identity, but not many of 'em good.
- Tom

It looks like our old "Golden Stardust" friend is back under a brand-new identity, still trying to sell the same plants (3 sets of 5). This time though with his own pics. I wouldn't keep picking on him, except that he's claiming they are 3 different colors this time when they were all the same last time.
- Tom

Where is the link--cannot find it on ebay

Here it is Linda.

Here is a link that might be useful: ebay auction

The plant looks nice & at least there are no names on them now.

Linda

I wonder how come his brugs smell nice in the morning when the rest of us have plants that smell nice at night?
Karyn

LOL Karyn!!!

Glad you all are taking this one seriously. I am surprised if Ebay gives a damn. I send dozens of letters filled in forms, blah blah bla... to no avail, on the Filthyrich10 matter. His account was suspended for not providing contact info - Thats all. Ebay is useless and they don't care.

BTW I am fairly sure that the cuttings from filthyrich10 were from Florida.