Landscaping Lawn to Succulent Garden- Remove Pine?

10 years ago

I'm about to landscape my mom's yard. She has a 1000 squar foot front lawn that she doesn't take care of. A problem is there's a large pine tree (I believe "norfork island" pine) that has grown enormous in the past several years.

This area is Sunset Zone 22
Hardiness Zone USDA Zone 10B.

This is Long Beach, CA south of Los Angeles where the weather is mainly dry and summers are fairly hot.

I was wondering what you all think of the pine tree if I should remove it? The good thing is it offers some shade to the house. It's on the WEST side of the house...I'm not sure which side is best to plant large trees for winter warmth/ summer cooling? Also this tree drops a lot of ugly pine branch/ thick needles

Also any suggestions on how I should plant this garden? I'm thinking of mounding, and putting a dry river bed running through it. I will use 80% succulents, deegee and some other dry species plants.

This post was edited by yorkiemiki on Sun, Mar 16, 14 at 20:16

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Comments (8)

kathi_mdgd
10 years ago
If you leave it,you're going to be cleaning pine needles forever.Personally I know I wouldn't want to be doing that.also for me personally,I hate pine trees.Then again I Don' t have to live there.

How do you feel about pines in general,do you like them,tolerate them,like cleaning up the mess they make etc.

Also to me,those pictures looks like the tree is leaning,is it??
Jon
Kathi
tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
10 years ago
Strong ocean breezes there? Those trees are leaning.

If it shades the house, the value toward reducing A/C costs would outweigh a lot of other variables. And it gives you a shady spot in the heat of the afternoon to enjoy the yard. Since it is not leaning toward the house, I'd leave it.

A cordless vac or a leaf-blower set to vacuum makes quick work of pine needles.

I'll leave the landscaping advice to those with So. Cal. experience.

tj
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Sand, pumice, perlite, D.G., the list goes on for inorganics. Anything that will shed (rather than hold) water, but be careful NOT to introduce BEACH sand or MASONRY GRADE sand (too salty). Since you are using drip emitters, you can adjust the flow to each plant by changing the emitter to one with more or less flow. I DO NOT recommend using "variable flow" emitters, as they have a tendency to leak horribly. I have LOTS of experience installing and REPAIRING drip systems as a landscape contractor. I imagine you have tapped into the system formerly used for watering the lawn. Make certain this area is on a separate control station than any lawn area. You want complete and separate control, and certainly don't want to set your timer based on one area, only to have too much or too little time for the other.
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Hi! I live in nearby Meridian, so I have a pretty good idea of what you're up against. First, I want to say that you have obviously done alot of work already, and I don't think your landscape is bad looking at all, except perhaps in the barren side yard. Still....you're doing some really nice work there. From what you say, and what I see, it sounds like your number one need is good soil preparation. Not easy, no. But if you do it right ONE time, you won't have to do it again. Your beds that are tight, poorly draining clay are the ones I am referring to. You will continually lose plants until you loosen and lighten it up. I learned this the hard way. If you are strong and patient, you can do it yourself. I dig new beds in spring or fall. I try to do one each season (have only lived here five years). My way is time consuming, but cheap and effective. If possible, do this work about three or four days after rain. I use a good sharp shovel and plunge it all the way down into the soil, making a "grid" pattern about six inches apart all over the area. I don't jump on the shovel. I balance on it, wiggling the handle forward and backward as I stand. My weight and the movement of the blade will make the shovel sink slowly into the ground. (My clay is so tight it always smells sour the first time I dig it like this. But never again.) Once I do my "shovel dance" and the blade is all the way in (about a foot), I pull back and break, but don't lift. Then I move the shovel over and do it again. I take it a section at a time and only work a couple of hours at a time. Once I have broken the soil, I lay as many soil "amendments" over it as I can get my hands on: manure, compost, leaves chopped up by the lawn mower, grass clippings, etc. In our area, you can go to the county landfill and fill your pickup truck with their compost for free. It's black as can be, and is good stuff. Occasionally, you may find roots of spiderwort, etc. and it may contain seeds of briars or thistles, but if you stay on top of that kind of thing, it's not much trouble to clean it up, and it's FREE. (Did I say that already? :) Anyway, I lay several inches (six is a good number) over the top of the broken soil and then I use my little mini tiller to mix it all in and pulverize it real good. Even a monster tiller will not break up my clay without doing the spade-breaking thing first, but once it's done, my mini does great. If you don't have a tiller and can't afford one, you can work the amendments into the soil by hand with your spade (unimaginably hard work). Or, you can let them sit on top of the soil for about three months and then work it in with the spade. (Check out the lasagna gardening forum.) Personally, I'd make it a high priority to get a mini tiller. I paid about $200 for my Honda and it's a honey. Do NOT buy a Troy Bilt mini. They are the most frustrating junk imaginable. Once you have done this process, you can plant. Always mulch with a good organic mulch. Pinestraw is what I use, but leaves or shredded bark are good too. Just use plenty. I put down about three to five inches of straw each fall and that will last a year. I lay the next year's mulch right over the previous year's. Every few years, I top dress the bed with compost or manure. I put it down right over the old mulch and then lay fresh mulch over that. I have perfectly lovely soil. This method of soil prep really works, and like I said, you only have to do it once. I have been digging and dividing daylilies the last two weeks and have been gloating continually over my butter soft soil. By the way, your sideyard appears to be on the north side of your house. That would be an ideal place for camellias, nandinas, hydrangeas, and shade loving perennials. I have my northside done with these plants on what would be your fence side, and, on the foundation side, with a curving path running approximately down the middle. No grass at all. It's a lovely, cool place. Just be sure to prep the soil well before you plant. :) Good luck!
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User
10 years ago
Yorkie,
I may live in South Carolina, but that tree is ugly.
I would have it cut down.
The tree at the street is creating alot of shade too, and that has to be taken into consideration when you go to plant new plants there.
Can you see the shade in the pic?
Go to a local real privately owned nursery for plant suggestions. They will know which succulents to suggest that will live in your area, and tell them about the shade too, unless in the heat of the summer there is more sun on that spot of the front lawn.
I like your idea of a dry bed, and succulents. You won't have to wter very much either, which will benefit your water bill and the environment.
After you are done, post a pic please.
Love to see after pics.
intelinside1
Original Author
10 years ago
Yes I'm leaning towards removing it as well. As you can see in the pics, it won't even fit on the pic. It's like 40+ feet high maybe 55??

I think that you're right maintenence and the fact that this thing is leaning and will get worse in 5 or more years.

Anyone have suggestions about a tree that will not get too big that will look nice here? I've heard Acacia and Palo Verde trees are good for dry landscapes

Do these things just keep growing indefinitely?? :-)

I don't like cutting down any living thing especially one so large, but I think it might be best in this case.
lzrddr
10 years ago
That's a Cook Pine, or Araucaria columnaris... they often lean... does not mean they are going to fall down. But they do drop foliage (not too many individual needles like most conifers, but still, can be a bit messy)... but I, unlike the others here, like Araucarias and after growing succulents in So Cal for so many years, I find there are a number that appreciate a bit of shade, if not even quite a bit of shade... and some need something to climb up etc. Not taking up much room and the shade this Araucaria creates is rather narrow and minimal... still, does not really fit in the 'scheme' of a succulent garden... though I don't really stick to schemes much.
intelinside1
Original Author
10 years ago
Wow I came upon the Palo Verde "Desert Museum" it looks BEAUTIFUL. Maybe I'll replace the Pine with this.

Anyone have first hand experience with a Palo Verde tree? I heard the desert museum doesn't shed as much seeds/ leaf litter as others, but most Palo Verdes shed a lot of litter. Do you think this could be a problem, which I'm trying to avoid with the Pine?

Here is a link that might be useful: [palo verde desert museum[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/great-design-plant-desert-museum-palo-verde-phvw-vp~5750043)
intelinside1
Original Author
10 years ago
Sorry Izrrdr just read your reply after I sent my other.

You are correct a lot of the succulents- sedums, aeoniums during summer, even some aloe will need some shade.

I'm not particularly a fan of pines. Maybe if there was a huge yard that might fit in.

But like u said, it doesn't really fit in. Even with the little cottage style house, it really dwarfs the house. It's like 850 square feet and one story and the tree makes it look even smaller than it is.

Either way your input is helpful, any others are appreciated as well
Colleen E
10 years ago
No, it doesn't fit, but I think most about the wildlife, the birds living in it. It's not an ugly pine tree like the ones I have to put up with, either... I mean, we have some uuuugly pine trees, haha. That really is a nice tree by pine tree standards. And it's healthy and not at all taking over the facade of the house or shading the whole yard.

For your landscape goals, it might not completely fit, sure, but I don't know that it would ruin the landscape style, and some plants like a little shade, so it could be made to work to your advantage. The tree might also better fit the goals of a future owner someday. Perhaps doubtful, I know. There will be those who will treasure a yard with a shade tree, and I'm one of them. It's a place for people to rest and a place for plants with certain needs. Not everything I like wants all-day direct sun.

Trees give a space some personality. I personally tire of seeing flat yards with solely direct sun, even with the beauty of succulents. It just seems harsh and hot with the sun, and the yards begin to feel very flat and standard to me. But I know this doesn't bother many Californians. I'm used to rolling hills where I am, so wanting an open, flat yard is completely contrary to what I am used to and contrary to my view of landscape beauty.

You are considering a replacement tree, though, so you can ignore that... :)

I'd find a way to honor that tree in my landscaping plans, hell or high water. ;) If I had a large tree I wanted to keep, I'd consider placing a bench below it, creating a stone path leading to it, something to give the tree a positive spin and encourage a future owner to keep it. But that's just me and my idealistic way of things.

This post was edited by teatree on Tue, Mar 18, 14 at 0:31

Landscaping Lawn to Succulent Garden- Remove Pine?

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kathi_mdgd

tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱

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Landscaping Lawn to Succulent Garden- Remove Pine?

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kathi_mdgd

tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱

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