I have app. 300 Monarch cats or chrysalises

12 years ago

Whew, it has been a whirlwind busy week taking care of all the Monarch catepillars I have, as of now I have 97 chrysalises, with many more to happen today I am sure. I have lost about 12 or so to parasites/etc...Next weekend will have the first of them to hatch, so excited. Probably midweek of the following week I could have 75 hatch in the same day. The most I have hatched in one day before was 31. So Monarch will be doing good here in little over a week, have not seen too many Monarchs yet but sure found the eggs and catepillars. I am almost half way there from my total of 617 from last year released.

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Comments (15)

KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
12 years ago
617 last year? WOW!
minrose
Original Author
12 years ago
Yeah, they kept me very busy, my DH thinks I am obsessed!
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What can I expect if my guys pupated too soon? What kinds of problems will happen? I ask that, because I am wondering why these two fellows seem to be frozen in ready-to-eclose mode. I am assuming they are dead. I am just wondering if this might have been caused by early pupation. I had a mass pupation approx 12 days ago. It was spooky - everyone went at the same time, like a zombie movie. They all had lots of food available at the time they pupated. But they were not the size I would expect for a mature caterpillar to pupate. I have two guys that are just hanging there. We are still in the 10-14 day range. In the past when I have had successful ecloses, they go transparent and the monarch emerges 1-2 days later. These guys turned transparent maybe 4 days ago. I can see the monarch inside. There is absolutely no odor. I thought the Black Death made them smelly. One, however, has a very dry chrysalis. No black dots. Both of them are in isolation. I will give them another day or so, because anecdotally, folks here have said sometimes they will take their time, especially if the weather has been weird. (It has been weird, but they've been inside....) I was just wondering that their apparent demise was the result of their early pupation, rather than a pathology like OE or the Black Death. Regardless of the reason, I am planning to perform the vigorous sterilization that you have recommended.
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If they are healthy, the cats will pupate, and hang as chrysalids. They will develop into butterflies in about 9 days, if they are kept at 80 degrees F, approximately. This would give them a jump on the long flight south, to Mexico. If the weather cools, to 60's and 70's, then the chrysalids might require 12 or even 14 days to mature into butterflies. With regard to your potted tropical milkweed, most people consider this plant to be an annual, north of the Mason-Dixon line. It might be best to start over with a new plant, come next spring.
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Terrene, what kind of cage do you raise your monarchs in? Years ago, we had one summer where I though we had our first disease outbreak. we had always raised our cats in plastic ice cream buckets. Well, it turned out the bucket we used that year was toxic! The second we switched to a glass container all the sluggish caterpillars suddenly perked back up. Now I have two cages: This was my main cage this year. it works well except for when the caterpillars are in their first few days, they can crawl through the mesh: (so I put the wee ones in a glass bowl with paper over the top...only lost 1 adventurous cat this summer) http://store.discovery.com/detail.php?p=86231&v=discovery_toys-games_type_animals-bugs I also got another cage for next summer. I plan to put potted tropical milkweed plants and raise TONS of butterflies in a mini greenhouse: http://www.amazingbutterflies.com/butterfly_castles.htm I had one strange occurrence at the beginning of the summer. The first two monarch eggs I brought in off the tropical milkweed turned completely black so I just tossed them after a couple days. Nothing out of the ordinary after that. Here's to healthy cats and butterflies in 2011! Tony
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Susan, As always my thoughts are my opinions based on many years of actually doing, not just accepting what others say. So they are only FWIW to be taken as a person chooses to take them. IMO common logic dictates that like with most infestation, disease or infection, the level they intrude an individual at can vary widely from minor to massive. That is commonly proved out with OE in Danaidae. If a larvae makes it through complete metamorphosis to an imago that can eclose and form OK, even if OE is present it was a relatively minor infestation in that individual. The opposite being if a larva at any instar, pupa or adult that has OE dies without getting through complete metamorphosis, that individual was obviously infested at a much higher level. Unfortuanately no matter at what level (with OE especially), failure to destroy any sick livestock whether it be OE, another parasatoid, viral or bacterial infection in most cases will promote the spread of any of any of them to other individuals. OE is the prominent one that will carry on to generation after generation beyond a given brood, and nothing but complete elimination of any brood within your control that might be infected with it will help slow it down in a colony. Why in my opinion when it comes to livestock even suspected of possibly having OE it's not worth taking any chances with them "for the good of the species as a whole". For those of use who did/do field work with Lepidoptera, that includes wild Danaidae livestock found or adults netted that show any possibilty of hosting OE. NOTE: Even if you have a very strictly controlled gardening and rearing rigime (which I doubt any of you have), you won't eliminate all of any OE present. So don't go slap happy destroying everything in sight. Instead be analytical and logical, and then decide what is reasonable for your own circumstances. Yes, livestock can have OE and not show any of the so called "visible" signs of it, which IMO are not proof positive of OE anyway and can be from other causes. In part why on my OE thread I offered some habit and condition factors that could also suggest OE is present as well even though they also do not prove OE and can also be from other causes. Bottom line, to prove OE is NOT present in an individual for certain takes a microscope or loupe. And in almost all cases if a larvae it will have to be euthanized to test with any certainty. A possibility to check for OE in pupa is to test the purge of the last instar larva for OE, but unforunately that is not 100%. I'm a lot more scientific in my appraoch to Lepidoptera than all of the folks here, so I don't accept things at face value. I am also skeptical of data from other sources that are not proven to me. The Internet and publications commonly breed misinformation about everything, including Lepidoptera, that is passed on by ACE's who probably got it from another one. So it's prudent not to trust every thing you read on the Internet or in books if it's not from a source you trust. Larry
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Tony G
12 years ago
Wow Minrose! My normal limit is 8 at once but I currently have 14.

I have found cats on all our our milkweed: common, swamp, tropical, and butterfly weed.

No matter where I find them, I raise them on common. (Can't let all that large milkweed go to waste.)

Make sure to tell your butterflies my liatris ligulistylis will start blooming at the end of July (hopefully). I'm hoping it's a huge attraction like last year!

Thanks for your LARGE part in Monarch conservation, Tony
terrene
12 years ago
You go, girl!! :)

Sounds like you guys have had lots of Monarch activity in MN. Is this early for you or on schedule? I've got 2 little cats right now, which is very early for my location - they are usually here mid-summer.
sweet_melissa
12 years ago
Awesome! 75 in one day! Please take pictures and post them if you can. Maybe you could send your babies my way :)
Tony G
12 years ago
Terrene,
there were reports of monarchs here in mid-may but I didn't get eggs until June 4...that's a good two weeks later than average. Overall, I think they arrived here around the usual time.

We have had a May-like June and the garden is getting lush and green. Once we break into a sunnier weather pattern I'm hoping this will be a good butterfly year...

Congrats on an early start to your monarch season!
butterflymomok
12 years ago
Wow!! I'm speechless!
terrene
12 years ago
Minrose, what do you use as their food supply?

You guys in MN must have a lot of wild milkweed.
minrose
Original Author
12 years ago
I am finding some gravel roads near our farm with tons of milkweed.
I am about 10 days behind from last year. Last year I had Monarchs hatching by June 17, this year it will probably be this weekend for my first ones.
Thank you for all your nice comments, I admit 300 at a time is a bit too much, I am so tired every day. Last Friday was my day off from work but I devoted 9 hours just to tending to all the catepillars. I can't be doing that all the time, luckily alot of them are now chrysalises so... it is not as bad.
I am thinking by mid July we should be seeing alot of Monarchs here, so far I have only seen one here and there but obviously they are here, with all the eggs and catepillars I have found. Course once I release mine will help.
I plan on taking alot of photos once I release them so beware! LOL.
minrose
Original Author
12 years ago
I am finding some gravel roads near our farm with tons of milkweed.
I am about 10 days behind from last year. Last year I had Monarchs hatching by June 17, this year it will probably be this weekend for my first ones.
Thank you for all your nice comments, I admit 300 at a time is a bit too much, I am so tired every day. Last Friday was my day off from work but I devoted 9 hours just to tending to all the catepillars. I can't be doing that all the time, luckily alot of them are now chrysalises so... it is not as bad.
I am thinking by mid July we should be seeing alot of Monarchs here, so far I have only seen one here and there but obviously they are here, with all the eggs and catepillars I have found. Course once I release mine will help.
I plan on taking alot of photos once I release them so beware! LOL.
minrose
Original Author
12 years ago
Sorry for the double posting.
terrene
12 years ago
9 hours in one day - I can believe it. Your efforts are impressive. Last year I had about 25-30 caterpillars reaching 5th instar in the same 2 day period, and could barely keep up with feeding those buggers. It was worse than a newborn baby!
bettyd_z7_va
12 years ago
Minrose,

Didn't I see you on the antique rose forum a lot?

I gave up on roses due to the deer grazing and a case of RRD. It just broke my spirit.

So far the deer have left my BF plants alone.

No eggs or cats here yet. DH, DGS and I check all of the plants at least twice a day. Can you say anxious!?!

I would love to see pics of your set-up for 300 eggs, cats and chrys. I just can't imagine. How exciting (and tiring)!

I got all excited when I raised one Monarch from a cat last year!! (My first year)

Congratulations!

Betty
MissSherry
12 years ago
Those numbers are staggering!!

But congratulations, and the monarchs and I thank you for all that work on behalf of the monarchs!

Sherry
bandjzmom
12 years ago
WOWZA!!! Big numbers, and a lot of work and milkweed. Those cats are voracious maniacs!! I think that my biggest number of eclosures on one day is around 25. Thanks for all you are doing for the Monarchs!~~Angie

I have app. 300 Monarch cats or chrysalises

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KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH

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I have app. 300 Monarch cats or chrysalises

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