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kathicville

Question about offsets

kathicville
18 years ago

Hi....What do folks do about offsets that form on their amaryllis bulbs after a couple of seasons? Cut them off? Not bother? I couldn't find an answer by searching the forums. I ask because a few "mother" bulbs that I've carried over from two winters ago seem more intent on kicking out offsets than in bulking up enough to bloom again. The bulbs seem to be perfectly healthy, just too small (either the original or the offsets) to do more than kick out leaves. I followed the usual instructions of fertilizing them generously during their leaf-growing phase in the spring and summer, so I think they got plenty of "inspiration." And they all spent the summer getting about a half-day of sun.

My biggest disappointment is my Papilio, which is now heading into its third winter without even a hint that a bloom might be forthcoming. The offsets on the Papilio are now about the same size as the mother bulb and so tightly bonded to the original that I'm leery about doing a botched chop job if I DO try to separate them!

Thoughts, wisdom and experiences with removing or not removing offsets?

Comments (19)

  • lora_in
    18 years ago

    Hi Kathi,
    I personaly do not remove offsets. They should reach blooming size in about 2-3 years. A pot full of amaryllis with many scapes is realy an awesome sight!
    So,what are you feeding,how often,pot size? Do you put them into dormancy and if so,for how long? It could be any or all of these things that are holding them back. Lora

  • kathicville
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Hi Lora...Thanks for the response!....Pot size is the standard "snug" 1" larger than bulb, 'cause I understand that these guys apparently do better when they feel cozy. I did have to repot one last year when the mama bulb and offsets literally broke the smallish pot they were in.

    For fertilizer, I follow the advice of a friend of mine who has a 20-year old pot of amaryllis that blooms every darned year, and has about a dozen stalks! The pot is so heavy she has to have someone help her move it! As soon as hers stops blooming, she stuffs the pot full of Jobe Fertilizer sticks (for flowering plants). As many as will fit around the bulb. Keeps it watered and as soon as weather permits, sticks it outside for the summer. I've done the same the past two summers, adding a few sticks to each pot when the old ones have been absorbed.

    Then, around Labor Day, I put the pots in my dark, coolish garage for two months of dormancy--no water, no light. Around November 1, I bring them into the house, cut off the dead leaves, water them once and put them on my radiators (on tiles) to give them some bottom heat. More water when I see signs of life. And more light.

    The bulbs that are "singles"---no offsets---have done pretty well for me using that system. (Some, not all.)

    Any suggestions about what might be worth adjusting? Or should I just let the ones with offsets do their quiet thing for a couple of years and hope I'll be rewarded with multiple stalks/blooms down the line? Maybe if I wait long enough I'll end up with a huge pot of amaryllis like my green-thumbed friend!

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  • Wildcat_IN_Z5
    18 years ago

    Kathi,

    I am a firm believer in using larger pots.

    Amaryllis grow so much faster (in my experience) when they have room to grow. More root space to gather nutrients.

    If I were you, I would upscale to a bigger pot.

    I have a red now in a 18" diameter pot that has filled it with more than a dozen floweing off shoot bulbs.

    Wildcat

  • kathicville
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Hi Wildcat.......Wow, your pot of red sounds like my friend's amazing plant......How old is yours? Surely you didn't put it in that 18" pot right off the bat?....I have to laugh, of course, that your tried-and-true technique for success is precisely the opposite of what all the guides say! Maybe I should put a couple of my offset-endowed bulbs in larger pots and see what happens! I'll do almost anything (within reason) to see my Papilio finally bloom. The pics are so tantalizing!......

    Is anybody a diehard fan of taking the bulbs OUT of the pots for part of their cycle? I've never tried it but I have another friend who plops his, bareroot, in his garden every summer.......Thanks!

  • lora_in
    18 years ago

    I definately agree with Wildcat,crank up that pot size!You are certainly doing right by feeding heavily. Do you know the NPK ratio of the houseplant spikes? I use either Colorburst flowering plant food or Miracle Grow for Roses as my primary food. They are time release and are good for about 4 months. The NPK is 15-30-15. During the summer when they are soaking up the sun outside I boost them with a liquid orchid bloom booster,15-35-17 I think.I do that twice a month. If your plant spikes are high in nitrogen,the first number on the label,they may be pushing lots of leaf growth but not promoting flower growth. Oh,with the large pots-make sure you use a well draining potting mix-they dont like soggy soil at all.Add extra perlite or coarse sand.
    And finally,get a few new bulbs to enjoy this year. It can take 12-18 months to get the bloom cycle back in order.You -may- get some blooms this spring but I wouldnt really expect it till next year. Good luck! Lora

  • kathicville
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Hi (again) Lora.....OK, I'm definitely game for trying larger pots, at least for the ones that are apparently trying to tell me via offsets that they're dying to get bigger! Would it be all right to repot now? The Papilio is kicking out leaves, but the others with offshoots are still quiet.

    I don't have the fert spike info in front of me, but I do know that they're for flowering, not foliage, plants. I'll check the NPK ratio and compare it to what you're using, Lora. Maybe I need to be a little more aggressive about fertilizing in the summer, rather than leaving it up to Ma Nature to 'melt' the spikes with rain.

    Thanks, too, for the tip about well-draining soil--I'll make sure I mix up a good batch before I repot anything.

    And I did, indeed, indulge in a few new bulbs, just this week, from John Scheepers. Not on sale, but I couldn't resist!

  • lora_in
    18 years ago

    Hi Kathi,
    I would repot now. Lora

  • kathicville
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Thanks, Lora.....Will do!

  • jeromej13
    18 years ago

    Kathi, maybe skipping on the dormancy period for your papilio would do the trick.

  • kathicville
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Hi Jerome...I was just thinking the same thing, after poking around a little more on this forum! I confess I'd blanked on the fact that Papilio doesn't need the same kind of dormancy as the others. I have so many of the "regular" hippeastrum that my poor Papilio got lumped in with the rest, I guess. Little wonder it hasn't bloomed for me....Thanks for the reminder!

  • haweha
    18 years ago

    Concluding from several fertilizer solution formulas for ornamentals and greens as well, documented for the optimized usage in hydroponic cultivation I can nearly exclude that there is any rational argument for the hight phosphorous content in these - as it seems to me - typical american bloom boosters.

    For elucidation I have first averaged the concentrations of 10 formulas which were so remarkably similar - they did not substantially differ from each other, despite of being designed for Chrysanthemums, tomatoes, cucumbers, paprika, cymbidiums and so on...

    And then I calculated the resulting ratio of N:P:K - more exactly meaning the ratios of m(N) : m(P2O5) : m(K) (!)

    (Kalium = Potassium; see below)

    cations:___________mmol/L___mg/L____________mmol/L___mg/L

    Kalium K+__________6.0______235___eq K2O____3.0______283
    Calcium Ca++_______3.0______120
    Magnesium Mg++_____0.75_____18
    Ammonium NH4+_____0.5 ______9_____eq N______0.5______7

    anions:

    Nitrat NO3-________10.5_____651___eq N______10.5_____147
    pr.PhosphatH2PO4-__1.5______145___eq P2O5___0.75_____107
    Sulfat SO4--________1.0______96

    From this recalculated recipe I obtain a ratio gropup for
    m(N) : m(P2O5) : m(K) as
    (7+147) : 107 : 283 eq
    1.44 : 1.00 : 2.64 or coarsely 1.5 : 1 : 2.5 or a multiple from that for example 4.5 : 3 : 7.5

    For my part - I use one 6 : 3 : 6 since many years - at 1000 pm with every watering, and I feel myself confirmed by its similarity to the calculated ratio above.

    I mention these aspects because Phosphorous is a possibly very dangerous macronutrient when overdosed.
    It will at least immobilize essential micronutrients in the substrate thus making them inaccessible for the plant.

    A miraculous bloom-o-gene booster-feeding formula of
    15:30:15 eq 4 : 8 : 4 is in my eyes simply grotesque *ggg*

    A further confirmation of my "Miracle-Maxi-P" offending point of view *ggg* is that the modern solid German fertilizers of the brand "Hakaphos" are ALL composed on a basis of a rather low phosphorous content at least as compared to Potassium (Kalium).
    Compo-Naehrsalzehref>

    Hans-Werner

  • lora_in
    18 years ago

    Hi Hans-Werner,
    Yes,15-30-15 dose sound gross :) The formulations available are not very balanced,most are weighed heavily twoards N. I find the regular miracle grow fairly useless.There are a good many formulas that are nearly identical,each promoted for a particular crop,as you say. The rose formula is really the lesser of the evils,providing many trace nutrients that are often locked up(at least im my growing situation) due to Ph and alkalinity issues.I wish I had a bag of the rose formula at hand but I am currently out.I have tried a good many other formulas,Monty's Joy Juice being one. It is 8-16-8,excellent for house plants and a variety of tropicals but seemingly useless for amaryllis.
    I do get excellent growth with the rose formula,big fat roots,good increase in bulb size and offsets and lovely,rich colored blooms. And since it release in trace amounts with each watering I'm not worried about burning my plants-or- forgeting to fertilize altogether. In a perfect world I suppose I would use my home made compost but the extra "life" I brought in the house the last time I tried that stopped me in my tracks. (Nothing like having earwigs cruising the kitchen counters,coming from pots in the window over my sink!)So,we do what we must and use the least of the evils.
    The link you posted was interesting,I stll remember snips of German from my childhood,enough to basicly decipher the page. I do agree,we need more balanced fertilizer formulas. Lora

  • Wildcat_IN_Z5
    18 years ago

    Hi Kathi,

    LOL! No not right away. The plant is 8 years old. Probably a Red Lion.

    I post some pictures soon.

    The first two seasons, it was in the typical small original type pot, flowered nicely, but did not grow a lot.

    Then, I put it in an 8" diameter pot and it really took off size wise and started kicking out about 4-5 off shoots. It was in this pot for 2 years.

    Then I moved it into a 12" diameter pot for 2 years until it bowed the pot oval shaped. The original bulb got near as big as a grapefruit, and two of the off shoots started to flower.

    It has been in the 18" diameter pot since right before the 2002 flowering. After that is when the growth really exploded.

    It has totally filled the pot with large bulbs. Not much room for any more off shoots...LOL!

    When it flowered last Spring, it had 14 flower stocks with better than 50 flowers open at the same time! It continued to flower for weeks as occasional spikes came up. But that major flush was phenomenal!

    Shoud be incredible again this coming Spring.

    Wildcat

  • kathicville
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Thanks, Hans-Werner, Lora and Wildcat. Interesting discussion, great tips! Much appreciated..... I headed out to Lowe's this morning and nabbed some larger clay pots for my upcoming transplant-fest....Wildcat, now I'm absolutely dying to see this red Mother-of-all-Amaryllis! Please, by all means, post some photos to inspire (or depress!) the rest of us, LOL!....Kathi

  • brigarif Khan
    18 years ago

    In my view a bulb under distress sets more offsets then the one growing happily & getting fat.
    Under proper conditions offsets grow faster when left alone with the mother.
    You need more room for a bigger family.
    More food to feed more mouths.
    Yes change the pot and feed as HANS advises.
    ARIF

  • rosegrowernb
    18 years ago

    I am reading this info on offsets,growing in a larger pot
    seems a great way to have a beautiful display in the snowy
    mid winter,when its --30C outside :>)
    Also agree that my limited knowledge and experience is that
    the plants in tight growing conditions appear to put out
    more offshoots...
    Once told all the fertilizer required was bonemeal,but felt that info was suspect,
    Will try the rose food fertilizer as I always have plenty
    of that here :>)
    Another note, would like to try growing from seeds if any
    body has extra to sell,or surplus, All I have are rose cuttings and
    know that they wouldnt be allowed to be exported, but seeds in an envelope would be a different matter.THanks
    Rosegrower....

  • houstonpat
    18 years ago

    Quite right about the Papilio being an evergreen. I also agree with moving into larger pots. I don't agree with stress helping blooms. I have read where many hybrids are nearly evergreen. I currently have Papilio and Lima in bloom. Last month I also had Green Godess and Movie Star in bloom. October, Yellow Pioneer bloomed.

  • kathicville
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Thanks for sharing more of your experiences, everybody. Much appreciated.......HoustonPat, I just bought three Green Goddess bulbs, and had planned to tucked them all cozily in one small-medium pot. But based on what I'm reading, I think I'll either put them in individual pots or bump up the size of the single container to something that will give them all room to run...I've never heard of Movie Star or Yellow Pioneer...You must have a good source for unusual varieties?

  • soultan
    17 years ago

    I couldn't find Movie Star on the net either. Do you have some pictures. We just discovered a new variety, called Lydia, not too long ago... Maybe Movie Star will be the next one.

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