Hi B_A,

Yes, it certainly does look "cruenta-ish", but my guess (if you say it goes pinkish in high light) is that you have Neo. 'Red Gold' - which is cruenta (rubra) crossed with Neo. 'Morris Henry Hobbs', which is a common Australian hybrid.

The species cruenta has sky blue petals, whereas yours has the lilac/white petals. I only have a young 'Red Gold' that hasn't flowered yet, so can't be 100% on my guess comparing it to yours.

If you have Andrew Steens' NZ book... "Bromeliads the Connoisseur's Guide" ..(which every Bromaholic should have I might add!!).. there is some info on cruenta and a nice photo of 'Red Gold' on pages 180-181. Also, if you look at the FCBS photos of 'Red Gold' you will see they look quite close to what you have ?

Cheers
Graeme

B_A and Graeme,

I don't think your neo is RedGold, your leaves look harder to me, my RedGold has softish leaves. The leaf shape is more rounded on my RedGold.

There is a good article on RedGold by Rob Smythe in Townsville, it has some good pictures on page 29 below.

I don't have Cruenta but it looks similar to the photos on FCBS at least to my untrained eye.

Neo. Red Gold
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Cheers,

Rick

Here is a link that might be useful: Bromeliaceae Jul_Aug_2008

It doesn't look like cruenta to me either, but I'm not sure I can explain why. Your description is mostly correct, Gail, and I can see how it applies here too, but I just know the "look". Graeme's comment about the petals is also correct, though. In cruenta they should be sky blue, not lilac.

I'm pretty sure what you have there is a hybrid, but I'm not sure which one. I suspect it's probably a johannis hybrid rather than cruenta. It can get confusing because up until 10 or 15 years ago most people referred to what we now know as N. johannis as "cruenta rubra". That means that Red Gold, Gee Whiz etc. have johannis parentage, not cruenta.

The thing you said about it getting a red mark everywhere the leaf is damaged sounds more like johannis too. Your plant is not pure johannis, though, or it would have white petals.

Hi Graeme, I looked at red Gold in A Steens book (I love that book) and in FCBS. My Neoregelia does not get that much red, except for damaged areas. It tends more to a gold than red colour. Its an old plant, coming from a garden of 15-20 years before I got my sticky hands on it!
Rick, I followed your link and I think the more gold picture in the article was the closest resemblance, but I'm not convinced.
The leaves are thick and quite supple/rubbery, and not stiff at all.
I looked at N. johannis, (on FCBS) and I think it resembles my plant in Dereks phots and in Micheal Andreas photos more that Peter Tristams,
I tend to sway more to lisa's suggestion of N' johannis.
I wonder if it might be usefull as a pollen parent if I was trying to breed size into a plant? the flowers haven't set seed in 4 years, even though I have a row of about 30 plants, and plenty of pollinators, such as Ants and bees.
Is there any other information I can give that would help determine its parentage?
lisa, it is either about to flower, or has just finished, as in there are heads of green things (either flowers beginning or flowers finished) I think flowers beginning, as I look inside regularly, and I don't recall seeing any flowers recently. I saw a thread where you discussed the seed pod/calyx colour can determine the parent? Tell me what else I can show you to help confirm the more liely parent.
B_A

If the leaves are supple, B_A, then that also points away from cruenta. N. cruenta leaves are stiff as wood!

The color of the ovary/berry probably wouldn't help you much in determining the parentage here, as both johannis and cruenta have red fruits, and so do many of their hybrids to some extent or other. They'd have to be pollinated to show that, however. They'd also have to be pollinated to set seed, so the fact that your plant hasn't done so only means it's not a selfer, not that it wouldn't be suitable as a seed parent. Ants and bees are not reliable pollinators, fortunately for us human types! If you want a job done right, do it yourself. ;-)

Now, if your ripe berries came out pure white, that would be enough to make me question my comments about a probable johannis parent in the mix, but for now I'm sticking with that. It's a hybrid, though, not the species. Just want to repeat that, as you seem to be trying to match it to species pics on FCBS. As to what the other parent(s) might be, there isn't anything there that strongly suggests one thing or another to me, it would just be a process of ruling out certain things, which is not anywhere near enough to make a positive ID. I wouldn't rule out it being Red Gold, at least not yet. Things like intensity of leaf color can vary greatly depending on conditions.

If you show me a picture, I can tell you if it's getting ready to bloom or just finished, but I'm not sure what you're looking for. I do see a flower in the first 2 pictures, or are those old photos? That's enough to rule out both cruenta and pure johannis.

Hi Lisa. Those first two pictures are current (a couple of days), but on a pup only recently removed (about 2 months ago. Its mid winter here now, and they get some morning till midday sun, but dappled shade through the afternoon.
The third pic was taken in January, the middle of our summer.
I'm not expecting to find an exact ID, but if Something conclusively pointed it to being either Cruenta, or Johannis, I at least have some idea of its heritage and potential as a seed/pollen parent. I have to admit that I did think as it was from an older garden, it might well have been a species.
Has anyone ever crossed a cruenta with a johannis? (why would they?)
Anyway, thanks for all the help and everyones input.
B_A

B_A as promised i've visited my old man today and taken a few pictures for you. He's got at least 5 large groups of the unknown variety, fingers crossed they are the same. I still learning so i'm not 100% sure but they do certainly look simular.

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Matt, I would swear I was looking at pics of my own plants! They are very quick to reproduce too eh? I've taken a couple of pups off and potted them, and am trying them in different positons to see how they go.
I also need to ammend my description, by saying the leaves become stiffer with age.
I have ALOT of gum trees here, so its been a battle to try and work out where to plant my broms, but plants like these big Neos can take a bit of battering, and as the scars turn red, its kind of appealing too. The huge hail stones last year split alot of the leaves, but the newer plants are taking over now, so its beginning to look better
This is a pic of where I first planted them, on the top row. They get shade throughout winter, but full afternoon sun through summer.
B_A
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B_A yes they pup alot and do very well in full sun. The first two pics are of the same group which are located under a palm tree. In the photo u can see they still get alot of sun even in winter.

I love the photo of your garden....;)

I had my dad thinking hard as to where or whom he had acquired them from but it was so long ago he couldn't remember.

Yeah, the garden I got mine from was owned by an elderly couple previously, and they aren't around to ask. There was about 20 of them crammed into a metre x metre garden bed!They were all upright and quite green.
They looked like Aechmeas, so much so that there was an Aechmea in the group, (also green) of course, all the neos flattened out, and the aechmea grew huge and red! It turns out it is Aechmea gigantea, but i am yet to see it flower, despite having peered down its throat every two or three days for the last 3 years! No pups yet either! You can just see it in the bottom left corner of this pic. More of the neo NOIDs on the top row
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That garden is a mound of clay left over from excavating the swimming pool! I put all the more common or hardy broms there, because anything nice would be ruined in twelve months. I have planted some palms and other trees in the hope they will break the fall of the gum branches and nuts. Time will tell!
BA

Yes i too am having trouble with nuts from palms and a macadamia tree. They always seem to kill the broms once in the throat.

Is that Neo Marmorata I can also see in your picture?

I agree that these Neo's must be a type of Johannis hybrid. Its a shame we don't know what with thou.

No, I don't think there is a marmorata in the one above, but in the one above that, top and right in the background there is a Neo. chlorosticta hybrid (me thinks) it could be something like beefsteak or charm.
The pinkish ,upright one in the picture directly above is the Aechmea gigantea.
Yeah, its frustrating not knowing the name, because if you want to discuss it in any way, you have nothing to call it by, other than, 'that big neo with the pink tips that goes yellow and red in the sun'....Why don't we give it a name?
How about Neoregelia 'Mattba'? he he
BA

What about RedMacaw, one of John Catlin's hybrids from Yatala south of Brisbane?

Ooops I should think before I post it should read "John Catlan from near Yatala."

Rick....I WISH! I just looked at the pic on FCBS, and no, my plant does not get anywhere near that ammount of red, and doesn't get close to that yellow, but thanks for adding another plant to my wishlist!
BA

Hi all, about time I contributed. I will post a couple of images of N cruenta in Brazil when I figure out how to. Must be something to do with the 'Optional Link URL:' box. (Can anyone help? I'm going to paste the image path here anyway and see what happens - no good). Now that image of N johannis attributed to me is a leftover from when UD was searching for the true species. It came into my collection as N Cockabell ages ago and is stunning as it blooms, going red all over, and keys close to johannis. Just look at the variations of progeny from N correia-araujoi too and the plain ones have a lot of johannis in them (like Red Macaw). The seed probably came from Burle-Marx's garden, sth of Rio, near the entrance, originally from further sth. There are articles about this complex around. Cruenta is variable too as it has a wide habitat. Brazilian Neos (and other genera) also hybridise in the wild so ... that really puts a taxonomic spanner in the works.

Pedro

Pedro,

If your home page is anything to go by we would love to see your pictures.

To post pictures:

1. Set up a 3rd party photo account (Photobucket etc)
2. Upload your photos
3. Copy and paste the HTML code text of the photo you want to display into the body of the message
4. Preview to see if it worked.

Cheers,

Rick

Hi Pedro,

Fantastic that you've joined us. I hope you get the picture posting sorted out real quick. Its a bit off this topic, but if you feel inclined to start a thread on your work with Vr. ospinae gruberi at some stage, I'd be delirious (Kerry mentioned it once and since I'm mad on these plants it stuck). Or anything else. Cheers, Paul

Thanks Rick, now how about loading 2 images/ 2 links?

The cruentas were just sth of Rio on the beach and up on an inselberg nearby along with Al glaziouana. Rio is the type locality for both species.

Cheers, Pedro (Peter Tristram naturally)

Here is a link that might be useful:

OK, Rick, the link is there but no image. How do I get images to appear?

Paul, I'll do that soon.

Cheers, Pedro

Here is a link that might be useful:

Hola Pedro! and G'day Pete!

Ha! You had me fooled for a while there, and thought your surname might be Nahoum, until Paul cleverly worked it out.

Welcome to our forum, and yes, it is about time you stopped lurking and chimed in - great stuff! And our mate Bruce should come out from Lurkerland as well.

Post your images directly into your message box, and as Rick succinctly put it, the preview will show if it worked. If still having trouble, I'll send you a blow-by-blow lesson for dummies by email.

This forum just gets better and better!

Cheers,
Kerry

Thanks Peter for that information. That plant in your link/photobucket is very alike to mine.
Its nice to know we have so many experts in this forum.
Also, Happy Birthday for tomorow!
BA

Yes welcome Pedro; and Happy Birthday for tomorrow also!!

I totally agree Kez; this forum is getting better and better.

Hey Bruce! Yes you, come join in.

Hi Pedro,

Welcome to our happy, friendly, little (getting bigger) group.

I can vouch for Kerry's "blow by blow lesson for dummies" for picture posting, it sure helped out this "old fart"

All the best, Nev.