My two cents: Why not just post them here? The people who would be interested, not to mention knowledgable about the subject are already here, and there isn't enough post traffic in here that would dictate the need to split the cold-weather posts into a different forum.

Bill,

I understand what you're saying, and I heartily approve (since I'm now doing just that, having cold-hardy plants in the ground, where it's -10C today and covered with 10 cm of snow), but I don't think a separate forum is necessary - in fact, it's, IMO, further fragmentation, but if you think the traffic that will come is worth it, I don't see any harm in trying. Me, I'll continue to post here with CH/NCH succulent subjects.

My 2 cents or no cents opinion. LOL

I am for a cold hardy forum. I do not see a lot of response if someone post about what I normally use in my desert garden outside on this forum. There is a Alpine forum that does not have much movement but some discussion of cold hardy cactus. I think combined and label it as Cold Hardy Succulent it would get more traffic. At least if someone posted in that forum they might get a response.

If people post questions for hardy plants there is not much movement here but if someone post "Jade" you have 50 thous responses.

example...
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cacti/msg101203587577.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Cold Hardy Plant

Well OK that is what I wanted, some feedback. I would be happy to post here and keep ALL the cactus and succulent topics together. But so far it has been my experience that this forum is pretty much concentrated on cacti in the more traditional climates, and that is exactly why I thought it might be good to let people know that they are not limited to the deserts and warm climates. I almost feel that it's a disservice to potential growers in cold areas who might be extremely happy to learn that they, too, can enjoy these fascinating and beautiful plants. Now, having said that, I also understand that there isn't a huge amount of traffic here, and so fragmentation may be an unwanted result. If only there were some way to let more people know that they can grow so many of these in colder climates. Maye one day asking for cacti at local nurseries in cold climates won't get a raised eyebrow and a chuckle from the owners! For now, it's not easy to find these plants, other than mail order online. But I like to see what I'm buying too. Meanwhile, I'll post here. Thanks again to everyone for the feedback.

I think that is someone is motivated/curious enough about cold-hardy succulents to search for, and then find this forum, they would know enough to use the search function at the top of the page to find that information.

Again, just my observation, but I don't think there is the lack of responses/information that you are looking for simply because there is no sub-forum dedicated to it.

ChemGardener,
My point is that many gardeners won't even bother to LOOK at this forum, because they don't even have a clue that they can, in fact, grow cacti and succulents where they live, i.e the colder climates. To agree with you, yes IF they happened to look here by chance, they might discover cold hardy types, etc. But how to get their attention, other than a forum with the heading "Hardy Cacti for zone 6 or colder" or similar, whatever would seem appropriate.

I guess I would count as one of those in between people. Not quite cold and not quite California. I am always running when the cold fronts sweeps down to kill my babies but my conditions have nothing on the guys that grow outdoors up north. I am often frustrated by the predominant focus on pot culture. I would like to see more talk about growing in-ground and in non optimal conditions. It seems to me that most of the in-ground people have fled the forum or just don't talk about it. I am not sure if one needs a new forum but if that would tease us back out of the background, I think it would be good. We used to have more of these folks on the forum a few years ago but then it seemed to become a pot culture forum. If it does become a separate forum, I think the emphasis should be outdoor , or in-ground as the emphasis and not necessarily a strictly cold Temp cactus forum. You guys might look at me as a too warm hearted of a girl and say i am not welcomed where my issues are not always answered or dealt with by the strictly Z 10 guys that live in the cactus belt. I think ingound versus Pot separation.

Maybe management can make it like a subforum. Some forums have the exchange and a "conversation forum"along with the discussion forum. (Texas forum has 4 catagories in their forum.) Could we maybe get that labeled as sub forum for cold hardy /inground catus forum. Or maybe we could get the Gallery forum relabeled as such since that one is not much used these days.

I don't think it's a bad idea. I always try to offer my words to cold climate growers with a grain of salt since I have no experience with frost, heated greenhouses, growing lights, or seasonal indoor migration.
I don't think we'd lose any people to a new forum but it might separate off new people into a limited sub-group.
For now, you could start a new thread called 'Cold Hardy Growers Unite!' or something to that effect, just to identify each other. You could also preface your thread titles with (cold hardy) to attract the attention of you chillier peers.

Wanton,
I think the effort to identify which succulents can live in-ground and methods of caring for them in cold climates would be a very worth one. I'd be interested even though it doesn't apply to me.

I think it's a good idea. I rarely post on this forum because of the pot culture. I spend most of my time on the palm forum just because we share information on all plants in the ground ( succulents included). And most most talk is of cold hardy varieties and winter protection.

Hanzrobo,

I agree that starting a subject line with "Cold Hardy ....." would certainly help some, but what I see as the problem is how do we get gardeners in cold climates to even look at this forum to begin with? I feel certain that they don't ever read this forum because they have no clue that cacti and other succulents are plants for their gardens too. They probably just assume that there's nothing here for them to learn or share. That's why I thought that if the forum name stated "Cold Hardy Cacti and Succulents" - or something similar - that it would get the attention of many people.

I know many people who have LEFT this forum because they don't want to slog through the many post about potted jade cutting and growing itty bitty cactus in pots of this or that to get to the very few entries that are about growing succulents in the ground in areas that are less than ideal. Some of them look at your collections and see concentration camps where they want to see gardens. Some of these guys are a truly different type of gardener than y'all. I do not think just a Subject line here and there will do. If one goes to Xeric gardening forum, one finds themselves in New Mexico/ Utah/Nevada gardening forum and they are mostly gardening with normal plants and vegetables but dealing with problems that arise there. I think it is one of those cracks that I find myself wedged in. Like I really like natives and wildflowers but if I go there , it is very full of Northerners and wet land/woodland people. I need to find wildflowers from Texas/OK but in the regional forums not many are interested in wildflowers. That's another crack to fall in.

I would love to find more information regarding what would survive in my climate zone (from a cold and wet tolerance perspective). I have only experimented with it on a very small scale (some opuntia, yucca, semps...). The experience of others is always appreciated. Guess I should start asking more questions...

I would love for this forum to be the place to look for this kind of information, though, as my interests are broader...concerned with both cold hardiness and outdoor gardening options as well as pot culture. Many of the plants that I want to grow MUST be grown in a movable pot. That is just reality!

Concentration camps?...ouch!

Tom

Tom,
I am in RI and I grow several xeric plants, including cacti and succulents. Right off, I can tell you that planting on a slope or hill (natural or one you build) is key to success in our climate. They can NOT sit in cold wet in winter. But on a slope or atop a mound of some sort, they will do much better.
I'll try to post some photos here tomorrow.

Thanks, Bill. What have you got planted out, and do you protect them in winter?

Tom,

A few different opuntias, one corypanhta, yucca recurvifolia, a few delopserma, several sedums and sempervivums, and the non-succulent types (but still OK with the hot dry location) include lavender, coreopsis, hesperaloe, lithodora, lewisia, rosemary "Arp" and kniphofia. I don't do anything for winter protection. I do have the area slightly raised, and the beds are covered with crushed stone. It all gets full sun all day in a southern exposure. If I have time I'll post some photos later or tomorrow.

I live in zone 10 I must mail order most of my plant, there is only one walk in nursery that specializes in Succulent and a few cactus, I know one man in Los Vegas that is specializes in Opuntia, going to Germany to get them. Now I going to ask a question. What is you average low in zone 6, do you realize that most beginners don't know that their zone can make a difference they are clueless. I may be able to help if given more information. There are books on the subject at Rainbow Gardens books,

I am new here and found this thread kind of funny since I am a zone 6, cold hardy, in ground grower and that is the information I am looking for here. Xeroscapes are very popular in the high deserts of Utah and Yuccas are extremely common in yards. Other succulents like sedum and henze & chicks are everywhere. Ice plants grow like weeds. My focus has been on tropicalesque gardening since it is different for my area, but can be done. But the ease of Cacti and Succulents in my area and the idea that having both tropicals and cacti in the yard would be kind of a yin and yang has made me decide to learn what I can about Cacti and Succulents on this forum. I am not interested in growing in pots since I have more than enough dirt on the ground to plant in. I hope this forum isn't manly focused on planting in pots rather than in ground gardening.

Norma,
According to the USDA zone map, zone 6 may get from 0 to -10�F, however there are many winters when we do not go below zero.

Tom,
Here are some photos from this past season.

Delosperma (Ice plants)

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Kniphofia

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Lavender

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Lewisia

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Lithodora (One of my favorites!)

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Large pad Opuntia

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Eastern Opuntia flowers

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Sempervivums

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Front garden, right and left sides

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Yucca reurvifolia (Delosperma in front)

Bill, that is amazing! Especially in RI! I wouldn't have thought that was possible there.

I love the ice plants. I have them around my pond and love them. Great pictures thanks for sharing.

Pcan,

As long as the pants are not wet in winter, they do very well here. Site is important. A slope or mound for water runoff, and full sun are pretty much all that are needed. Most failures aren't due to cold, but to winter rot. It's a little hard to see, but in the next-to-last photo, there are three rocks between the yellow coreopsis and the ice plant, and right in the center is a little Corypantha cluster.

Bill -

Great stuff!

1) What exactly is the spikier Opuntia you are growing?
2) The other Opuntia looks like humifusa...correct? Mine is outdoors right now in a large part - it is a wrinkly, shriveled mess!
3) What is under the pebbles? Did you amend that soil under there as well?
4) How long have you had these plants growing planted out there now?

Thanks for the pics...

Tom

For those who are most interested in growing hardier succulents in colder zones, I'd suggest looking at the goings on at the Denver Botanic Garden web site, and possibly following the facebook postings of Panayoti Kelaidis who regularly writes about succulents,Kniphofias and various other plants he's growing in Denver, some collected from South Africa. You might also look for the Timberpress book on Succulents for colder conditions, which has photos by local SF Bay Area Saxon Holt. This book deals specifically with cold hardy cacti and succulents.

Sorry I can't be of more specific help, because I am one of those who gardens and designs for coastal California conditions, where losses occur more due to wet winters and cool conditions, rather than true cold. I've got lots of experience with how different our SF Bay Area conditions are for succulents that may be easy to grow in southern California, but struggle a bit here.

Tom,

The very spikey one was sold as O. engelmanii, and it has large pads when compared to humifusa. The other one has even larger pads, but fewer spikes. It was labeled simlply as Opuntia species. I haven't been able to identify it yet. This year (right now in fact) it has several fairly large ripe fruits.

The O. humifusa does get all shriveled and even a purplish color in coldest weather, but come next spring it bounces back and grows like a weed. I've had that one for over 40 years, but when I had the yard relandscaped, large mats of it got trashed. I did manage to save a few clumps, and they spread quickly. It was not unusual to have 500+ blooms on the original clump, as it was over 10' in diameter.

The soil under the stones is average, and I didn't amend it. There is weed cloth under the stones. I didn't amend because I formed slight mounds for drainage, and also the front of the house is in blazing sun all year and also has full air circulation so it dries out well. Most of the plants you see are in the third year, but the ice plants are about 10 years old and were replanted when that area was constructed. The Yucca is about 15 years old.

Bill

You mention your ice plants are 10 years old. This is my first winter after planting mine and mine have turned brown and look to be dead but they are not brittle. We have had a very mild winter this year, almost no snow and mild temps (we haven't been below 10* yet). Do your ice plants do this in the winter? and if so do you trim them in the spring? do they just bounce back once the weather warms?

Pcan,

They do turn purplish in winter, but stay succulent. I think yours will be fine, so long as they aren't in standing water in winter, and have good air circulation. Three of the ones pictured were dug up and replanted in 2010 because that whole front area was a slope. I had the new stone walls and stairs built to make it easier to care for. Then I replanted them. They grew right back to their previous size. The larger one near the yucca was never moved. It's a different variety (don't know what exactly) that grows a bit taller than the other ones, and tends to bloom a bit later, but keeps going right until very cold weather. This past season it had flowers open until after the new year. I don't generally trim them in spring except for the occasional broken bits that might be there. It hasn't gone lower than 11 degrees here yet this year.