This winds up being a no-win situation in a lot of ways. I see people complaining about "all the fillers" in powders and "all the water" in liquids. The mfgrs cut the fillers and cut the water, tell you to use half as much, still does the same number of loads and people go "look, it's only half as much and it's the same price!!!". LOL I don't get it. The concentrating started a long time ago with dish soap and people complained. Yes, a lot of people squirted in the same amount they used before, but face it, that's their problem. Just like the people who constantly complain that a particular brand is oversudsing when they're way overdosing. Again they blame the detergent. I guess the detergent sneaks out of the box/bottle and crawls into the machine at night. I think the compaction (as they call it) is a good thing. I don't like lugging an extra amount of water in liquids or fillers in powders. AFAIC, cut out all the water in the liquid and use an eyedropper to measure or throw in the few flakes needed of the powder. Think for a second about how much less plastic is required from just this one step. Think how much less FUEL is required to transport something that weighs 1/2 as much. Think about the increased shelf space available to the stores to either have more of the same product so they don't run out, or different varieties available to the customers. Think about how much easier it is for those stocking the shelves and yes, even us grunting these things home and into the laundry room, and even off the shelf each time it's being used. Then think about how much less plastic is going into the landfills because lazy people won't recycle. Now, back to the other issues. If it's low-sudsing, it'll work just fine in your front load or other HE machine. Suds are the biggest issue. In theory, SOME of the HE detergents are formulated to perform differently, but not all. I'm so tired of people screaming different hyperbole about soap. There's many low sudsing detergents out there that will do just fine. And guess what? You can get too many suds from HE detergents too! I see people on here all the time overdosing and blaming the detergent. I still laugh when I (so often) see someone saying they now have a front loader using 1/6-1/8 the water of the top loader and they use 1/2 the detergent they used in the toploader and can't figure out why there's so many suds, so much soap buildup, etc.... and it must be the detergent! Hellooooooooooooooooo! Oh yes, some of the syntax. "2x", "3x", etc are given when the old formula is more concentrated. Essentially taking out fillers to downsize the packaging and still give the same number of loads. "Ultra" is sometimes a brand name, sometimes a descriptor. "HE" can mean it was specially formulated to work better in HE machines, or it can mean it's COMPATIBLE with HE machines, ie it's low sudsing. There's several name brands that do not say "HE" on them that are just fine for HE machines. Mara, don't feel bad, it gets confusing. And with your new machine I'm sure you want to be sure not to mess it up. It's good to ask questions and educate yourself. Again, it looks like it needs to be emphasised, while yes, the bottles are smaller, and yes, you're getting less fillers, you're getting the SAME amount of active ingredients and the same amount of loads from the container. It's like buying a water-injected ham. You get the same amount of meat but you get more weight from the water added which evaporates out when cooked. Do you feel cheated? Most of the "old" formula "1x", sometimes called "classic" are now sold in dollar stores. People there tend to look at the size of the box/bottle and not the number of loads. Many don't even say how many loads they use. I looked at one and it said to use 2 CUPS of powder per load! That makes for expensive detergent. Personally, I think it's a myth that liquids "gunk" up a machine. OVERDOSING, liquid OR powder will "gunk" up a machine. One thing I've found is that it's easier to measure the correct amount with powder using the scoop. Using the cap on the liquids is clumsy, at best. If people would use a measuring scoop, I'm sure that virtually all the problems would disappear. Again, you can't blame the detergent for pilot error. Oh, one other thing. Technically the formulas are not the same on all items. I was reading about P&G's concentrating and the article said the formulas are different. (No idea about the other mfgrs.) They said Tide has different enzymes that are supposed to clean better, Gain has been changed to keep the smell longer, Cheer is different, supposed to keep colors better, etc. I've been using Tide Free/Sensitive for about a year now and I can only speak from experience. I used the "old" type (1x) and have used the 2x also. To me I see that they clean better than any other detergent I've used and I can't tell a difference between them. I use about 1/2 of the amount to "line 1" on the cap. So a bottle lasts me a LONG time. I used to itch from Tide so I avoided it for years. I was given some samples and there's no problem for me anymore. I'm very pleased with it. I bought some on a bargain price and am stocked up for a long time now. I don't use borax, Oxy and the other additives. Occasionally I pretreat a stain but that's not too often. And occasionally I switch off with either the Walmart powder (made by Huish) or Sun, but with Sun, I need the additives. I've been very pleased with my results and of course YMMV. And I had my machine apart about a year ago. After 20 years of strictly liquid use (in proper dosages) I have no "gunk" buildup.

Yes, it has been going on for over a week now and others have commented on it. I think someone said that Martin was trying to do something about it-but not sure what!........Pat

Oh! That explains the sometimes there. :) I've been posting threads hoping to get people talking. :) So the Like part of Facebook then? I can see the utility of having the thank-you for the OP, but that's going to have to grow a whole new etiquette of when it's appropriate to click and when it will hurt someone's feelings not to get a thank-you. I propose that we, at least in Cooking, try to limit it to responses that answer specific questions. Not for attitudinal questions like my recent one about pizza definitions, where all answers are right. Not for every response. Just for the ones that are right on target, and maybe the first one. Like the current question about Nutella filling. I've been thinking it had some similarity to peanut butter, and that there are recipes for peanut butter and cream cake fillings, but if I had posted that, it wouldn't be right on target, even if it were useful in terms of how much cream to use, whereas a T&T recipe for Nutella cream cake filling would be dead on, and for Nutella cream frosting would be sort of on (thank if a good template, not if wrong texture). Otherwise, we'll be thanking each other constantly and losing all meaning.

I have strange times typing on my phone a lot. Words will move around randomly messing up my sentences. It's really frustrating! If the post is longer, I have to type it up in an email and copy it back over. Otherwise sometimes it's impossible to complete a paragraph. I got a notification that Pagan posted something this morning, but now the post isn't there? (Unless you deleted it). Strange things are happening!