The number of discussions we've had here on this subject, it surprises me that nothing answers your question. Did you search the forum for "Privacy Hedge"? I'll post a link to my search results when I searched just this forum for those key words.

Regarding not planting oleander and natal plum due to toxicity......your dogs actually have to eat it and enough of it, to suffer ill effects. My two dogs eat green leafy veggies in my garden, all the carob pods they can find, mesquite pods are favorites.....but they don't touch the oleander because it's bitter. Anyway, fwiw, that's my take on it. 2 cents.

Here is a link that might be useful: Privacy Hedge Threads

Thanks, marymcp.

I know there are a number of discussions on here regarding this topic, and I'm sure there may be something out there to answer my questions. I do apologize for repeating the topic, but with a toddler, homeschooling, and other various things going on, I don't have more than a few minutes a day, if that, to sit and look on this site.

And I have been looking when I am able.

Many of the discussions I have read so far were asking for plants in shade or partial shade. I need plants that can withstand full sun in the Phoenix, Arizona, heat.

I also need something that won't lose its leaves, living in AZ, and something that grows into a dense hedge.

lol I know that's a lot to ask for, but I am hoping someone can help me or point me in the right direction.

So the natal plum is like onions and chocolate for dogs? My dogs have eaten onions and chowed down on chocolate and had no ill effects, though, I can find numerous articles warning owners not to let dogs around the stuff. Not that I fed it to them, but they got into the garbage as pups.

I've read posts on here saying to stay away from natal plum and oleander because they are so toxic to dogs.

You see, even with the little time I have to research on here, I have to sift through all the contradictory statements.

Thanks for your take, though. :)

Sure, I understand, no problem. I thought the link was a good condensation of some excellent discussions. You can browse the discussions at your leisure.

You might look at hop bush. It's one I'm trying now, I have a very similar situation as yours but you really should rethink oleander. Naysayers abound in this world, you need to pay attention, for sure, but form your own opinion. When was the last time you heard the media report on a dog dying from eating oleander? Good luck with it all. Someone else will likely stop by and offer comments.

Privacy and security hedge. Security means thorns. Privacy for the most part means evergreen, density and height.

Ironically, I was going to mention MaryMcP's fence hedge of roses that nearly fits the bill...not quite evergreen, but when thick enough and in our climate comes pretty close.

Speed. Whether you like it or not you are looking at 2-3 years minimum for height and density. That is the price of a living fence. Time and work.

An artificial one is instant and needs be repaired/replaced every so often. It is expensive up front and very low maintenance.

A living fence actually gets stronger over time. But it is modest in maintenance (water, fertilizing (maybe), pruning, removing debris(variable)) for life. Once in place a living fence is good for life. Unlike an artificial fence (usually) a living fence can be quite beautiful. A home for birds and wasps (now there is an additional security layer ;-D).

Here's the living fence FN mentioned above. It's Lady Banks roses and they filled in very quickly, just a couple of years. I'm not sure why but the hedge has been deteriorating this past year so I have not been recommending it so heartily as in the past. I've fertilized and will do so again next spring hoping to rejuvenate it, if it comes back nicely, I'll go back to recommending it again.

This pic is Spring 2011, the hedge was planted shortly after we moved in, so probably fall 2004. This is just about at it's best. Don't know why it's struggling now, although I've been lax about getting fertilizer to it so that may have something to do with it.

We always think in terms of bushes when it comes to privacy, security hedges, but ocotilla makes a great one, especially in the desert. In a dry area, it seems like a good choice. Not a lot of maintenance once established and it provides a gorgeous show of blooms. Dogs and kids are not likely to bother it and toxicity is not an issue. Check out how to make one here: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/make-ocotillo-weave-fence-66261.html

Here is a link that might be useful: ocotilla hedge

Here's how a gardener in Phoenix used ocotilla as a screen.

Here is a link that might be useful: another take

Ocotillo growth rate: Its growth rate, with limited moisture, is slow, perhaps 1 to 4 inches a year. When grown in managed garden landscapes, where more moisture is provided with timely irrigation, ocotillo branches can grow as much as 10 to 24 inches a year. More soil moisture leads to roots sprouting new upright stems to create a larger, broader plant.

Even at 10 inches a year, that's pretty slow for someone wanting a fairly immediate screen. it definitely falls into the "security" bucket, but you've got to think, and plan, long term on that one.

Here is a link that might be useful: eHow Sheet on Ocotillo's

how about bougainvillea? I think it looks way nicer than the lady banks.

I say put oleander back there and forget about it. We had a privacy wall of the stuff when i was a kid/teenager and none of our dogs gave a crap about it. Its by far your best bet. Second would be Arizona yellow bell but it's requires a lot of maintenance.
Good Luck

Oleanders aren't nearly as poisonous as they would lead you to believe. Also they are very, very bitter. I have a big dummy of a dog that eats everything, he even eats palm fronds which smell horrible, he doesnt touch the oleanders which i have completely surrounding my property. There are many different cultivars of oleanders, i found a good one at treeland in mesa, grows 6-8 feet per year with irrigation, grows super thick even at the bottom and responds well to shaping.
I also have used wax leaf privet and texas sage as a privacy hedge although these are a bit trickier, oleander is almost impossible to kill.
I will try to post some pix.

Bougainvilla could be a good idea, the thorns add to the 'security' feature and those bright pink flood of flowers are awesome. Unfortunately, it dies back in winter.

Mary and FN - I *love* lady banks, but for some reason, I have always ended up killing them. I don't want to mess with anything that is so finicky with me. :)

I am, however, rethinking oleander after these responses.

Tomatofreak - While the ocotillo fence looks really neat, I don't think it will give me the dense screen I'm looking for. Plus, like mary mentioned, I'd be impatient with the slow growth. :)

Wanna - I especially love the white flowered bougainvilleas, but with the quantity I will have to plant, once the flowers drop, I'll have a huge mess. And so will my neighbors. Plus, the leaves drop and people will be able to see through it.

Thanks to everyone for your input. It has been very helpful.

I think I may plant oleander.

I really wanted something with huge thorns, like the natal plum, which I still may consider, but I think oleander may be the easiest, and if it gets tall enough, hopefully no one will be able to climb over it. :)

User - Do you remember which particular variety you used? We have several small nurseries around us, near the White Tank Mountains, and I can always head over to Lowe's, too. :) Mesa would be a bit of a drive.

Oh, do you know if any cuttings would root easily? If so, I can just get some from my mom's house. :)

Pyracantha is thorny. And I *think* it's evergreen. Make sure you don't inadvertently by dwarf oleander. That's what I did. :-\

Good morning, Mary! :)

So I looked up a little info on pyracantha. It is evergreen, but I'm not sure about all those berries. My only concern is the amount of birds we get. I'd be afraid we'd start seeing red stains all over our cars! lol

Do you know anything about natal plum?

lol Thanks for tip to look out for the dwarf variety. That is totally something I would end up doing.

Yeah, I hear you on the berry stains. I can send you the info about Natal Plum in my Western Garden Book but I can only get a pdf. Click my name and email me your address and I'll send it that way if you like.

Thanks, Mary! I just sent you an email.

I know there are several varieties of natal plum, and many of the ones I've seen in landscaping are obviously dwarf.

I can't seem to figure out the variety that grows tall, and if possible, doesn't fruit.

If I had all day to research, I'm sure I could find out what it is. Unfortunately, I don't. :(

kriklaf, I'm with you re the oleander. They grow into huge plants, take a *lot* of room and are incredibly messy. If you don't plan to be trimming and raking frequently, those things will attract roaches and vermin. I doubt it would be a problem where you are, but here in the city, untended oleanders attract roof rats. One more thing: If you have a patio close enough to the falling flowers, they do stain. On the plus side (the only plus to me), they do attract hummers who like to nest in them.

kriklaf - I actually don't like the way oleander looks, either. I am planning to plant a variety of flowering shrubs in front of it, in our yard, to hide it... if I plant it.

After Mary emailed me some info from her book, I am back to considering Natal Plum, more specifically Carissa grandiflora.

We live on an acre and the whole back of the yard is fenced with chain-link. On the other side is dirt, brush, and a hardly used dead end road, and beyond that, desert. So whatever I plant, I'm not worried about looks. :)

I don't want people to be able to look through, but my main concern is security.

Plus, the fruit from Carissa is a nice bonus. :)

Have you talked to the guy that owns the nursery thats on Jackrabbit road. He gives free advice and can will tell you where you can go see mature plants you are interested in. He is a straight shooter.

Oleanders arent for everybody, you have to tend to them from the time you plant them otherwise they get very out of control and look like hell. I keep mine in a very square thick 30 foot tall hedge. I trim them with hedge shears every 7-10 days and i do a major trimming with lopping shears twice a year. I do spend alot of time keeping them tamed. Since i trim them so much, they very rarely ever flower, usually only at the very top if at all. I am on flood irrigation and get 2 feet of water every 13 days so everything on my property grows very fast. If you can control the water to the oleanders, you can slow their growth to a crawl by cutting back the water to almost nothing, they are almost impossible to kill. Mine went from one gallon size to 30 feet tall in about 2-3 years.

You might want to consider Arizona Rosewood. It is similar in speed of growth and size to oleander, but is not toxic, which seems to be a concern to you, and is a native plant.

Thanks for that note, dig421; I'd never heard of this plant. It seems to be a very good choice for a dry environment and I see (other articles) that it's recommended as a replacement for oleanders.

Here is a link that might be useful: AZ Rosewood

Here's a nice photo of an AZ rosewood hedge.

Here is a link that might be useful: AZ rosewood hedge

AZRoboTech - I think someone in my neighborhood mentioned that nursery, but they also called it "the one on Jackrabbit." lol Do you know the name? I'll try to do a search and look around on Google maps. Thanks! :)

user_unknown - We have flood irrigation, too, but the back fence is raised on a burm. Whatever we plant there wouldn't get any of that irrigation water unfortunately. If I can't get my hands on Carissa, I may plant some oleander interspersed with another plant. Sounds like the look of oleander depends on how you keep it, and everyone has their own experiences with it. Thanks!

dlg421 and tomatofreak - While it's a pretty plant, when I looked it up, I read it was a slow grower. :( I need something fast.

Hmmm... no thoughts on or experiences with Carissa grandiflora? Yeas or nays?

Am I just weird that I want huge thorns on a plant that lines my back fence? lol The fruit is a great plus, though.

you have enough land to support big plants, so I would use oleander next to the fence (for height and density) then plant something thorny in front of it that doesn't grow as tall (my choice would be bougainvillea) for thorns. anyone that jumps that fence, and can make it through the oleander, will be in a sea of thorns. your dogs won't mess with the oleander, but be sure that your children don't pick it and taste it (might make them throw up, if anything), plus the prairie dogs won't eat on it either. I know you have a fence, but p.dogs will climb it to get to a nice plant, and can probably get through the wire mesh of the fence. I have oleander along a property line, and I've trimmed it back to make it grow more bushy, it grows fast, and it can be started from cuttings - all of mine are cuttings. research all your options, and good luck with your choice :-)
Debbie

GirlyGrr, here's some new info: we have been battling a tick problem on our dogs this fall/winter. I contacted Arbico today, makers of organic pest control products. She asked if I had oleanders because ticks *REALLY* like rummaing around at the base of oleander hedges. Just letting you know the info I got.....jeez....it's always something!

Oleanders will find the irrigation water anywhere nearby, I have a row that is 30 feet on the other side of an irrigation berm(dry side), they are thriving just as the ones in the irrigation, they threw down roots as big as my forearm to get to the irrigation, you can actually see some of the roots on the surface.

I tried bouganvilla in the past and it does incredible on irrigation, thick thorny and 20 feet tall...unfortunately it absolutely will not tolerate temperatures below 32 degrees, not even for one minute, it will die back to the ground leaving an insanely thorny dead mess behind, oh sure it will grow back and pretty fast but you will need to dispose of the dead mess and will be left with nothing for several months. I finally gave up and planted oleander and wax leaf privet.

This is what oleanders can look like if you keep them trimmed, watered and they get enough sun.(these actually are ready for a trimming and shaping)
Most people don't like oleanders because if you don't take care of them, they will look terrible. I see alot of them around the valley that look real scraggly from infrequent trimming, improper watering, or not enough sun(they will not fill out if shaded)
When trimming it is extremely important to trim them from top to bottom, way too often i see people trim the bottom but forgo the top leaving a mushroom shape, shading the bottom and leaving it scraggly.
These are about 4-5 years old and on irrigation, they reached full height in about 18 months. these were started from cuttings of other oleanders on my property. I keep these at about 20-25 feet tall

This is what I use on the perimeter of my property for security where oleanders would not be appropriate.
This is a layered style. Boxwood in the front, Italian Cypress in the second row(well it was the second row but they grew together), Wax Leaf Privet in the third row, 7 foot anti-climb wall in the fourth row(the wall is on a berm making it's effective height approx 9 feet), very, very thorny citrus trees in the fifth row with the canopy at the wall top. There are sharpened rebar spikes in the waxleaf hedge for added measure.
Should an adventurous soul get by all of this, I have two 150 pound free roaming Presa Canarios that absolutely love unannounced visitors-lol, just be sure to remove any jewlery, watches, belts, etc. as the dogs have a hard time digesting those items-lol.
Keeping this arrangment trimmed and looking presentable is considerably more work than the Oleanders.

deb - Thanks! I'm still going back and forth about the oleander. I love the fact that I could propagate from cuttings. That's a huge plus. I'm not sure yet if I could do that with Carissa.

mary - Thanks for the info! I'll have to research that. I currently use diatomaceous earth for pest control on our property. I wonder if that would keep the ticks from becoming a problem.

user_unknown - Ummm... Wow. lol

That's pretty much the type of security perimeter we want. :) I love the rebar idea. I love mastiffs, too, but we have a shepherd/ chow mix that's super protective of us, especially of my kids. I've had her since she was 6 weeks old (found her on the side of a house in Phoenix, the litter abandoned). She's 12 years old now.

You've given me some great ideas about layering the perimeter. Thanks!

Make sure you get the right cultivar of oleander, there are many, many different ones. many are unacceptable and look scraggly when full grown. I have tried several over the years and the one that makes the fullest, greenest hedge is the "Full sized" giant, white oleander with the giant leaves. some (not all) of the leaves should be extremely large, like 7-9 inches. there is a very similar cultivar and very common but with smaller leaves(smaller than you pinkie finger), this variety is somewhat scraggly, grows much slower, and doesn't respond to shaping as well.

Another vote for no on oleanders. The best one I've seen is the one that was posted above, but I've never seen a nice one anywhere. I hears some gardener a can't even dispose of the trimmings. How about some edible thorny trees.

user_unknown - Thanks! I did notice that many of the gigantic oleanders I've seen in neighborhoods had the white flowers.

toucan - I'm probably going to go with Carissa grandiflora (natal plum). I love the huge thorns and the fact that it produces fruit. Which trees would you suggest?

Want security plus fruit? Try Eureka lemons. Big, super-thorny trees and enough lemons to warrant a fruit stand. http://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/798/eureka-lemon.php

What about Wolfberry (Lycium berlandieri)? It has thorns (pointed terminal branch tips) and berries.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wolfberry

tomatofreak - I did think about planting citrus, but we have 5 citrus trees on the property that were planted by the previous owner. They were almost dead when we moved here in March. After flood irrigating all these months, they are huge now but did not produce any fruit this year. So we are still unsure of what type of citrus trees they are.

I think a line of more citrus would be more fruit than I would know what to do with. And I don't want to attract too many critters. :)

aztreelvr - I just looked at the link you provided. Unfortunately, it states that the shrub is leafless during the dry seasons, and we want a privacy hedge. Plus, apparently, insect larvae like to hang out inside the fruit. Yeah... no thanks. lol :)

tomatofreak - I did think about planting citrus, but we have 5 citrus trees on the property that were planted by the previous owner. They were almost dead when we moved here in March. After flood irrigating all these months, they are huge now but did not produce any fruit this year. So we are still unsure of what type of citrus trees they are.

I think a line of more citrus would be more fruit than I would know what to do with. And I don't want to attract too many critters. :)

aztreelvr - I just looked at the link you provided. Unfortunately, it states that the shrub is leafless during the dry seasons, and we want a privacy hedge. Plus, apparently, insect larvae like to hang out inside the fruit. Yeah... no thanks. lol :)

Do not worry about Oleanders toxicity. my aunt has been a veterinarian in PHX for 30 years and has never seen or heard of a case of oleander poisoning. We decided against Oleanders because of the proximity to the pool, they are very messy. We instead planted a Japanese Privet hedge, total of 65 5-gal spaced 3 ft. The only main drawback is the water consumption during their first summer. Each received 5 gallons of water 5x/week. Heavy water schedule on a reliable drip is an absolute must in their first summer. Otherwise they will fry. Even with consistent deep watering, about 20% did not survive. Another tip that will greatly enhance survival and thrive is proper soil amendment. Privets do not like high PH soil (too much salt) which is very prevalent in AZ soil. Prior to planting, treat the soil w a sulfur product. this will loosen the soil and allow for maximum nutrition uptake. Ensure to continually treat the plants w products that will lower PH levels. Many synthetic fertilizers will increase PH, so look for a local organic compound meant for trees and shrubs. Our hedge has grown 4 ft in 2 years. and will grow faster now that they're established. Good luck!

I had ticks for years and huge oleander hedges... interesting. I'm sticking to Ficus Nitida since it's edible by the huge tortoise I have and orange jubilee can freeze and won't get as tall.

Hop bushes are great hedges purple hop is real pretty. My neighbors very large dog ate oleander leaves in the back yard and almost died. Spent 3 days at emergency vet clinic. Why take a chance.

I would recommend hop seed, or privets.