Roots, Rot, and Rain!

15 years ago

This is a multi-part question! :-)

Roots - All of the bulbs that I bought had good roots! I soaked them before planting and they seemed to be in good shape. Just recently, my Rembrandt van Rijn seemed a little top heavy because of the bloom....then yesterday (in full bloom) the bulb fell completely over, with not a root in sight!! YIKES!! The bulb looks healthy otherwise. Should I clean off the basal plate and dust it with rooting hormones and replant! Otherwise, I'll stake up the plant and hope for the best!!

Rot - Someone (Lizalilly I think) has said that she had a problem with rot and lost many bulbs so now I am paranoid that something bad will happen to all my beauties. I think that the more you pamper some plants the worse they do. Seems like our bulbs thrive on neglect with as occassional hint of kindness. Aside from really overwatering, can someone provide hints as to how to avoid the dreaded ROT!?

Rain - May be a little related to rot.....June is often a very wet month her in Spring, TX (Houston area in general) and with a couple of downpours in the past couple of weeks, one day we received nearly 7 inches of rain(!!), I am wondering if I should provide any overhead protection for my plants. I was thinking along the lines of the "wavy" transparent fiberglass panels that some people use in patio covers. Hopefully this summer/fall I will be building a greenhouse, but in the meanwhile, do potted bulbs require any "relief" from downpours to protect the plants from becoming waterlogged.

Thanks!

Kristi

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Comments (7)

java_j
15 years ago
I'll defer to others with more experience, but here are my thoughts:

I would definitely remove potted plants from downpours. I suspect that a downpour is the equivalent of "serous overwatering." Bring your plants inside on those days. IMO a few days in low light would be better than a downpour with no chance to dry out.

If the plants are in the ground, it might be OK since drainage in the ground is different from drainage in pots.

I would also use reverse wicking for the pots. Even something as simple as sticking a rolled paper towel up a drainage hole will let you know if the bottom of the pot is water-logged. Not having a better wick, I did that and the paper towel was damp for days after I had top-watered the plant.

As for the bulbs with no roots, I'd repot them. That way you would remove the dead and decaying roots which must be in there somewhere. I don't see how repotting would hurt. If the bulb looks healthy, i.e. no rot, that is a good sign.
Noni Morrison
15 years ago
KRISTIE, much of the rot I had was already there on bulbs when they arrived. Some seemed to be damage from freezing on my winter orders, but particularly bad on ones that had been machine washed. I have had several rot among my potted plants and will own up to uneven watering techniques based on my own physical energy or lack of it. Most of my bulbs are more likely to dry up then drown!
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@floral Although photosynthesizing can help plants grow, for plants in transplant shock, I think too much photosynthesis is part of the problem. It takes time for plants to drop leaves (if they do it at all). Roots help to supply water for photosynthesis. Plants need water for photosynthesis. More photosynthesize than they have water for seems it would dehydrate the plant. I'm guessing this is why for plants in transplant shock, the leaves turn thin and both the leaves and stems wilt (because they use the water they have available and are having a hard time getting more, due to the damaged or insufficient roots). The more leaves a plant has, the more water it needs (I have tested this in containers), and in my experience, plants don't just turn off their leaves from functioning at a moment's notice when it would be helpful—otherwise, the most common kind of transplant shock, IMO, would not occur (and a moment's notice is sometimes what they need, believe it or not; twenty seconds of strong sun can kill a leafy plant with sufficiently damaged roots). If the roots aren't sufficient for the amount of foliage and sun, similar symptoms as transplant shock should occur as if the roots are damaged. Plants with root rot could have the same symptoms. Plants with too much nitrogen and too little potassium may have similar symptoms, for a similar reason. Giving plants extra potassium is one way to reduce transplant shock (I have tried this a number of times). It helps plants to absorb water. It also helps the roots. Note that people advise you to remove a number of leaves when you take cuttings. They might have plenty of reasons, but cuttings don't have any roots; I've discovered that they need time without too much light to adapt to the situation (otherwise, they'll wither and die; cut a piece of a leafy plant off and lay it in direct sun, and cut another off and lay it in the shade; you'll see that the one in the sun withers quickly and the one in the shade might look healthy for a really long time). If they have less leaves, they'll have less light. If they're in a low light environment, or are adaptable, you probably don't need to worry about removing leaves of cuttings. There seems to be more to adapting to the light than just having the roots needed. The plants seem to be in shock, and after a certain length of time without being damaged by / exposed to sun, they don't seem bothered as much if they're put in more light (as long as it's not too much), even if the roots aren't grown. What I'm saying is, the plants are still going to try to photosynthesize as long as there's sun shining on their leaves. If they can't handle it, it's not good for them. Removing leaves so that the plant doesn't get too much light can help. It'll grow more extensive roots as the new leaves grow. It's my personal opinion that older leaves tend to be less adaptable to light changes than newer leaves, and in my experience, this seeming lack of adaptability can slow the growth rate and of plants (although much more so in some species than others; I don't have that much experience with basil, so it might not be a big deal)—although what I was saying above was mostly not about adapting to light changes, but that's why I suggest removing older leaves, instead of just any leaves. Now as for these basil plants, looking at them again, and reassessing the situation, I think they're really too young for this to matter much; and, they've been transplanted for a while now (and are probably recovering, as well as shedding the leaves that are important to shed anyway, over time). What I'm talking about is a lot more helpful for older, larger transplants with more than a few leaves (how old the leaves are seems to matter, too). Ideally, you'd remove any leaves that you're going to remove *before* the transplant (to reduce the initial shock). Removing them afterward isn't as much about the shock as it is about those old leaves not being as adapted to the new environment as the new growth. I tend to think pre-transplant leaves are more prone to disease, too, but that's a different topic. For some reason, I didn't realize just how immature the basil plants were. Immature plants tend to need what leaves they have a lot more, I think; it's difficult to say what would be best here. If it were me, I might remove a couple of the very bottom leaves that don't look so great, but that's about it. Younger plants don't often grow new leaves or shoots as easily when they're missing leaves. Basil may be able to drop leaves faster than a lot of plants, naturally, due to how thin and soft they are—but not all plants shed their leaves so easily, even when they're in transplant shock.
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java_j
15 years ago
LIZALILY, What do you mean by machine washed? I have visions the the bulb going through the washing machine along with the clothes. Surely, you mean something different.

I did have one 'dry up' in my attempt not to over water. Fortunately, it was minor. I noticed that the seed pods on my pregnant bulb in the tub were not growing, but actually shrinking. I stuck my finger in the soil and it was dry.

Oh well. I'd rather lose a seed pod than find rot. I cut the pods off and watered the plants in the tub. There are more blooms in the tub. I may get more seeds. Do I want more seed? I'm not sure.
kitty747
15 years ago
Kristi, think it may have been me with the rot. I've mentioned it several times, that many (perhaps most) of my year 2000 bulbs rotted. They went back to tiny little things or just disappeared completely. Some formed a number of smaller ones. I've been nursing these for all these years and this year a few have bloomed again. Sometimes it rains an awful lot here in NJ. It can rain for the better part of two weeks, with a few cloudy days in between. My precious babies have not gone out since which is the subject of my recent post "Inside or Outside." I read here on the forum how so many summer their bulbs outside, even plant them in the ground, and are rewarded with great blooms, so was thinking about trying it again. I now bottom water for the most part.

I had three with rooting problems this year. Rembrandt van Rijn was one. It bloomed with one wimpy scape and I realized it had no roots. I dusted it with hormone powder and just left it sit there. It took awhile, but it is solidly rooted now. Another was LaPaz which is now solidly rooted, and the third was Romance which is very healthy looking now with lots of nice green leaves.

Check out my post. The replies may help. I'm convinced it's not worth the risk If you calculate what is invested in these bulbs, and the heartbreak of losing even one, the peace of mind of them being out of the rain wins. I'm leaving mine in the greenhouse once again. BTW, It's only a small greenhouse, nothing to brag about.
kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
Original Author
15 years ago
I think this weekend I will construct the "roof" of translucent fiberglass to protect them.
K
jodik_gw
15 years ago
Kristi - I think you may have a slight case of paranoia... and it's not hard to see why... there are lots of posts on rotting bulbs and too much rain and bulb surgery...

My thought is that you're experiencing a very simple case of "bloom before rooting". This happens to some bulbs... they proceed to throw up scapes and bloom before they set down a good root system.

If it were my bulb, I'd sprinkle a tad bit of rooting hormone powder on the basal plate and simply re-pot it. Stake the bulb if you have to... this will keep it upright.

When the bloom cycle is complete, your bulb will grow a decent root system. I had several bulbs that commenced blooming before rooting in good. Trust me when I say... care for your bulbs as you have been, and when they're done blooming, they will send out roots.

I agree with the statement: "Seems like our bulbs thrive on neglect with an occasional hint of kindness." To some extent, this statement is true... mainly because hovering and over-watering seem to go hand in hand. I sometimes find myself second-guessing whether or not my bulbs need watering... and I've found that it's best to wait another day if I'm not sure. A bulb is a storage unit... it stores moisture, as well as food and the next set of buds... it can only uptake so much moisture, and whatever remains in the soil must dissipate at a rate that won't leave the bulb sitting in a swamp.

I think it prudent to keep container plants of any kind out of rainy downpours... especially potted bulbs! Bulbs seem a little more prone to rot from soggy soil than other plants. I admit to leaving my huge patio pots and hanging baskets outside throughout the summer season, and I don't bring them in just because it's going to rain... but I also know that moss baskets drain very quickly, and the annuals in my large tubs will fare just fine.

I believe the best course of action is to re-pot the Rembrandt van Rijn, staking it until such time as it has it's own root system to hold it in the pot, move the pots to a more sheltered location where they can't be flooded on a regular basis, and relax! If your bulbs didn't arrive with any rot, and you're caring for them so they're not over-watered, they'll be fine. I think you have a simple case of bloom before rooting, as happens with some bulbs. Nothing to panic about! :-)
Noni Morrison
15 years ago
Kristi, The big commercial places use a special machine to wash their bulbs. THe very best places do it by hand. The big washers do bruise the bulbs some and while they may look great when packed the bruises then start to show up and rot by the time they arrive here in the NOrthwest. I had this happen on most of my bulbs. ROyal COlors Hand wash theirs. Van Engelen/JOhn Scheepers machine wash and the Rembrant Van RIjn's were rotting when I got them. Amaryllis Bulb.Com also sent bulbs that were rotting when they arrived but also seem to have frozen all on the outsides of the package. I did not get one package from them that did not contain a lot of rot and atleast 2 bulbs that needed replacing. I will not be ordering from them again. My bulbs from McCLure and Zimmerman were beautiful...too bad they were mostly mislabeld! (But only variety I did not like, the one they substituted for Lilac Wonder).

It may be that you are enough closer to the source to receive your bulbs before the bruising rots, but I am not.

Roots, Rot, and Rain!

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java_j

Noni Morrison

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kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
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Roots, Rot, and Rain!

Comments (7)

java_j

Noni Morrison

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kitty747

kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)Original Author

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kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
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