Well, you'll probably get a lot of different opinions. Mine is that they do better in a pot for a couple of years where you can really give them optimal conditions. Harder to do outside in the ground, IMO. But, maybe that's just me, because the potted stuff is always up close to the house where it's easier to keep an eye on it.

i would have scheduling mailing for ground thaw .. or about 4/1 for my z5 ,.... what are you thinking ordering bare root on 12/20??? ... delay delivery if still possible ....

if they are dormant... then they wont care ... stick them in the ground.. if it is not frozen solid like mine is in my z5 ...

i would pot them all into one large pot.. and keep them in the ground.. since we can not verify they were properly hardened off to what the weather is like outside my door this week [single digits plus wind] ...

try to delay delivery is my best advice ..

ken

If it were here, I definitely go ahead and plant them in their permanent location. In your area, I'd probably go ahead and pot them up like Ken and Denninmi said. Then as long as they seemed to be doing well, I'd plant them out in early/mid spring (depending on conditions at your location).

I'll also second what Ken said about trying to delay shipment.

Sorry, I should have stated I'll be getting them late March/Early April.

If I put them in the ground they will be close to the garage. I'll probably fence the area off with chicken wire for a few years.

New List...
Acer pseudosieboldianum 6-12" tall
Acer triflorum 3-4" tall in plugs
Chionanthus virginicus 6-12" tall
Chionanthus retusus 6-12" tall
Cladrastis lutea 12" tall
Halesia carolina 6-12" tall
Maackia amurensis 3-4" tall
Maackia chinenis 3-4" tall
Aesculus turbinata 12-18" tall
Aesculus turbinata pubescens 12-18" tall
Acer truncatum 6" tall

Sorry, I should have stated I'll be getting them late March/Early April.

--->>>>

well duh .. those pesky facts just seem to get in the way of a good story .... lol.. rotflmbo ...

presuming they are dormant stock ... which is shipped from coolers... they will be ready, willing and able to go straight into thawed ground ...

everything else.. IMHO .. is simply cutting your odds by fooling around ...

if you can not plant them ASAP on arrival ... just hold them in the shipping package in the cold garage.. maintaining dormancy ...

they are not water plants.. and should not be shoved in a bucket of water for a week or two ... the roots need to stay damp.. but a dormant tree wont need all that much water ...

the stunningly cold soil.. will HOLD them in dormancy.. until the proper time to bud out ... you will find out how cold the soil is.. while planting them .... and they will be growing roots in that cold soil ... before they bud out ...

do insure they are being sent leafless .... or fully dormant ... if they are sending greenhouse plants actively growing.. delay shipment until all danger of frost/freeze has past.. like late may ....

its all about TIMING ... between the active phase of a plant.. and the ambient weather ...

the worst.. will be e.g. ... fully active plants shipped from z8.. up to the great white north ... where they cant be planted for 3 months.. and you have to start fooling around 'holding them over' ... and that is where problems begin ...

with the timing as you know have it ... i predict 95% success rate with fully dormant stock ... giving them a full 2 or 3 months to leaf out naturally and have the roots start working ...

it would be problematic... if you were to do this in late may ... and it leafs out immediately ... with basically no functioning root mass to support the babes ...

as i have said often.. TIMING IS EVERYTHING.. and you are spot on ...

ken

Good news is that these are from a grower 40min away.

Seems like the general consensus is to get them in the ground, then transplant them when your ready vs. keeping them in pots for a few years?

Pots are just too complicated. Cold soild, compacted soil, pots heat up in the sun, drainage issues. Ug.

Plant them where they belong and put a little tomato cage and wire fence around them to keep the rabbits away.

Sometimes I order two instead of one. Or a dozen lol if I'm getting them almost free from the state. Seems my mail order plants have no rougher time than my friends' b&b transplants provided I keep the rabbits away with a fence.

In the ground for best growth.

Whaas,

Where are you getting the seedlings from?

FWIW, I planted a couple of dozen acer truncatum around the farm when I was in Wisconsin for a few years. The farm is located about 30 miles north of Madison. I grew the trees from seed which was supposedly from a northern selection of trees. I haven't been there the past few years, but from the pictures I have seen and what the in-laws have told me, it seems they freeze back to the snow line. Or something eats them but I did have cages around them so I don't know. I would be interested to know how yours do. I was going to try Acer pseudosieboldianum but had difficulty getting the seed to germinate.

LT

LOL!! I'll offer a differing opinion :-) For that size trees/seedlings I agree with denninmi that potting up for a season or two before planting in the ground is what I would do (and do do, AAMF). Plants that size are extremely vulnerable to all sorts of issues - predation by rabbits, deer, voles, etc., getting overlooked for watering, getting smothered/overshadowed by larger or faster growing plants, getting decapitated by mowers or trimmers -- even getting accidentally stepped on. IMO, it is a lot easier to give these tiny plants the care they need if they are in a more controlled environment, which a container would provide. I even do this with bare root perennials on the rare occasion I bother with that method. Bare root failure is pretty high under the best of circumstances so why not give them the best possible chance to survive?

FWIW, more and more retail nurseries in this area do the same thing - any bare root stock they bring in is immediately potted up regardless of when they anticipate sale.

I appreciate the comments so far, I see little tips throughout everyone's posts so please keep them coming.

Another update, all plants will actually be potted.

Still debating between potting in #3 containers for 2 seasons or so or if I should create a vegatable like garden environment with everything caged in next to the garage, then transplant in a couple years.

I don't feel comfortable planting such small plantings in a wide open lot quite yet.

Below is a link to some images if interested.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lot Pics

I have always put them where they're gonna stay and use good fence for protection messing with roots during transplant slows growth if only by a year or 2, for them getting settled in a new home.

I do as gardengal does. If they're not more than whips, or less than two years, they are protected......I put mine, potted, in an unheated perennial house, safe from rodents and with clouded film on to maintain dormancy as much as possible, checking for watering if and when needed and that is seldom. Otherwise I'd be heeling them in. I would not be putting them in a finish location in my climate with its temperature extremes.

a bit OT, but definitely get multiple Halesia carolinas for insurance if you can. I lost one to a bad 5a winter after 3-4 years. Try one in a more protected spot.

The reasons I would go ahead and plant out, when appropriate weather-wise, is because containerized stock requires much more attention/maintenance, will require repotting if kept in a container for long, will experience additional transplant shock when replanted, and will not be able to adapt quite as well to their eventual home. It's not that these factors can't be overcome or that there aren't any advantages to keep them in pots, but they are things to consider.

two issues with pots ...

first media ... trees will not appreciate media that a perennial does ... trees need a sip of water.. and then near full drainage.. and then probably dry for a week .. something like 50% bark mini chunks with a peat mix is good ... the water seems to go in the top and straight out the bottom ... the closest bagged type would be cactus mix .. and the pots are NEVER in full sun ...

second ... my personal problem.. is forgetting about those pots in august .... or sooner or later .... trees like it dry.. but sooner or later.. they do not appreciate abject neglect ... lol ...

let me put it this way .... i would say my success in the ground is about 98% ... basically care free after the first year ... with a proper mulch bed ...

and about 75% in pots ... and NOT care free until the second year after going in mother earth ...

its your choice if you want to adopt more dependents.. though these are not tax deductible ....

ken

If there is a voting tally going on, I vote for in the ground. Especially if you are planning a "nursery bed" ("create a vegatable like garden environment with everything caged in next to the garage"). They will be protected there, you can nurture them properly and it affords a larger margin for error than in pots.

tj

Not that it really matters what I think, but here goes. IF you will NOT be placing them in final locations, then pots. Reason being, putting them in a small area to grow, your going to have to dig them up. When you dig them up, all the roots will be tangled. Remember the roots will extend much further than you realize. So when you go to dig them up to move them, your going to have a nightmare untangling them (or more likely cutting through multiple root systems), and will do ALLOT of damage to all their root systems with lots of risk. Whereas if you grow them out in pots for a couple season you will have the benefit of protection as others have noted, but if they are handled in pots properly, they will have basically intact root systems when you plant them in final locations. If you grow them out in pots, with no more plants than your growing, I would spring for the root pruning pots so that you end up with better root systems, and roots that don't circle.

Now if you CAN plant them in final locations, to me it's a toss up and personal preference. I would do pots, just because I hate tiny little plants in the yard, that has to compete with the lawn (even with mulch), that you basically have to get down and hand weed all the time. You have to hand weed because they are too small to reliably control application of anything that you might use to control weeds around them. And if you use anything on your lawn, they will be VERY susceptible anything applied to the lawn to due to being so small.

In your replies you have only indicated growing them out in a small area, and nothing of planting in final location. So I assume that planting in final location is not an option (i.e. have to remove dead of undesirable trees and they will be run over). So IMHO, root pruning pots are the way to go.

Arktrees

Pots in 5a?

Good luck with that.

Potted plants that small are easily protected in winter by sinking into the ground or moving into a more protected location. A fellow GW'er living in Michigan and a very active Container Gardening forum member grows hundreds of plants, including trees, in containers that he manages to overwinter quite handily. The advantage of being able to provide specialized care for these tiny plants easily outweighs any drawbacks regarding the extra effort they might require in a container, as arktrees notes. And I wouldn't worry much about any need for root pruning during the couple of seasons they are held in containers before planting out into a permanent location - it is unlikely to be required during that short a time span.

Thanks all...so from what I've gathered...

Option A
Plant in the ground next to the garage and protect area with chicken wire.
- Main disadvantage = root damage during transplant

Option B
Keep plants in white pots next to garage and protect area with chicken wire
- Main disadvantage = require more frequent waterings

If winter damage to the root system isn't likely while the pots are stored in my attached garage I'd probably lean towards the pots.

I would pot them in one gallon containers and put them in a trench. I paint the inside of my containers with copper paint called bottom shield to prevent root circling.

Frank

{{gwi:492840}}

Another option if worried about damaging roots when digging up the trees is to use knit bags and plant in the ground. This way you get a good root system and make it easier to dig up when you are ready for a permanent home.

http://www.rootmaker.com/products_inground.php#jump

FWIW, Whitcomb was against using copper in pots.
http://www.rootmaker.com/docs/copperInContainers.pdf

I use Whitcomb's 32 cell trays for propagation. His one gallon and larger containers are more than I can afford and I don't buy his story on copper.
Check out the link.

Frank

Here is a link that might be useful: copper link

I would think it's not really about whether the plants would do better or worse in either pots or in the ground. This is a new landscape for you, Will, and you will have many new plantings and lots of watering and tending to that will be going on. To to have these seedlings in the ground where care is minimized and margin for error is maximized will be a blessing come the heat of July and August. And in fall and winter when you need to do little or nothing extra you'll feel twice blessed. ;-)

tj

Down here I keep things in pots til 12-18" in height. My problem is the sun, drought, and the clay soil are hell on small treelings, not to mention me not seeing them and the lawnmower. I usually pot them in either 3-5 gal containers. Once the seedling has grown to 6-8" in the pot the roots are usually at the edges of the pot and I transplant immediately if I can water. If not I wait til dormant season and transplant then. Raising trees in pots thru July and August is no problem if you keep the pots shaded (not the plant). Cover with hay or mulch or whatever you can find and get on a regular watering routine.
Good luck up there in that frigid wet country!

do you have any rose cones ...

cut the top off.. use a couple stakes.. and leave the cone there for a few years... while planting them where they will stay ...

keeps away rabbits and deer ... and other vermin ...

ken

My question is not in theme but my questions is about hickories. What is shagbark and shellbark? What soil do they want? Could you tell, in which climate zone they will survive and where are they native?

Denis

hey denis.. why cant you start a post about your issue.. instead of hijacking this one???

ken