skip to main content

Arizona Gardening

Are these going to be butterflies or moths?

captaininsano (9b/13) Peoria, AZ.

9 years ago

Found these on my grape vine, are they moths or butterflies, are they going to do a lot of damage to my grape vine, should I squish them?

Featured Answer

iandyaz

8 years ago

If you want the worms, just plant some Datura. Every year I get them on the plants. I let them have it because it grows back so fast, and they eat *all* the leaves. This year I had an additional bug on them, slugs. I'm assuming they're slugs, they looked like slugs you normally see but were much smaller and ate tiny holes all over all of the leaves. Just note Datura is toxic to humans and pets (all parts of it).

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (12)

timber334
9 years ago
My best guess would be most likely a Sphinx moth due to the slash pattern on the sides, but I'm not 100% sure.
HaroldinGlendale
9 years ago
Evil things. From their size, I'd say they have already been feasting. Remove as quickly as possible before they strip your plants. Search for more.
Related Discussions
Holland's books on moths and butterflies
Q
Comments (6)
KC - Hollands Moth Book and Comstocks Butterflies of California were probably the "bibles" of hobby/amateur lepidopterists when I got serious about lepidoptera in 1964. I've come a long ways with probably around 200 books and at least twice that many specific papers on leps. Elizabeth - The early works have their place and are still fine reference material IMO. The hand painted plates in many of them are more accurate than even the color photos in some modern books. And they may not have much on the life history of a species because it was just not known yet. So the only real problem with them is that knowledge doesn't stand still and they do. As the natural sciences advance the methodology also changes, leading to new discoveries that causes taxomy to constantly become more accurate. And it all happens faster and faster every year with so many dedicated Lepidopterists worldwide now compared to only a little over a century ago when it was still mostly a "British" thing. Add that Lepidopterists can now reach virtually any wild habitat with ease that previously they could not, and that constantly adds new species and life history information to the pool causing yet more changes in taxony. FWIW, many of the taxonomic names I use that are left over from my more acrive years doing leps have been changed due to new discoveries, not to mention that a very large percentage of my synoptic collection wears labels with taxonomy that have changed. So I should go through 65K specimens and make new labels? Nada! Doesn't really matter as forever each bug itself will always have the paper trail of names assigned to it from when it was first discovered and classified right up to the currently accepted taxonomy. IOW, you can always cross reference old taxonomy forward to what's currant. I have books written to do just that, but with the advent of the Internet a lot of it is now just a click away. L.
...See More
What type of butterfly/moth is this??
Q
Comments (14)
So how many instars does bird poop go through BG? LOL N. antiopa is so common in the west it rivals P. rapae for being found everywhere. At just about any riparian area with willows you'll find their ova or larva from spring to fall. 20 odd years ago my son reared maybe 300 of them for a school project. Since they would emerge while we were away on a butterfly trip to southern Utah, we took the pupa with us in our RV. They started to eclose while we were camped at a place called Pine Lake about 15 miles north of Bryce Canyon Nat'l Park. The other campers and camp ground hosts were so taken with the releases every day and all the BF's flying around that somebody drove into town and told the local paper about it. A reporter showed up with a photog in tow to get the story. Made the front page of the paper with several pictures, but better yet allowed us to make the public aware of butterfly conservation.
...See More
Hummingbird Moth?
Q
Comments (10)
It is a member of the sphinx moths, sometimes called hawk moths because of the way they swoop, or hummingbird moths because of the way they hover. If you really want to see them in the evening, plant moonvine and four o'clocks. They particularly love the moonvine and you can see them hovering waiting for the bloom to open at sunset. Coleen
...See More
Butterfly & moth caterpillar nests. Which do I need to worry abou
Q
Comments (9)
If you can take pictures, you can almost always have any caterpillar identified in a flash right here in the gardenweb. Learning the identity of what you find munching away on your plants is key to your decision making process of whether to let them be or not. Your description of the behavior of your pests is what led Jean to reasonably suggest that you have Fall webworms without seeing an image. Time of year, as well as the location of these webby nests were important clues. Next, you need to learn about caterpillar host plants. Many moths and butterfly adults will only deposit their eggs on certain plants. Thus, identifying the PLANT becomes important. There is nothing wrong whatsoever in sacrificing a host plant to support a caterpillar species. If you visit the Butterfly Forum, you will find a large community of people who plan and plant for that very reason. Many of the folks over there take it to the next step and collect caterpillars of favored butterflies and moths to rear in the safety of cages. If you visit that forum, and I suggest that you do, be SURE to read up in the FAQ section first, as many of your questions will be answered there. Butterfly caterpillars don't typically 'nest'. When they reach a predetermined size, they begin a occupation process which usually means the formation of a chrysalis. Moths make cocoons out of silk. The large 'nests' that you are witnessing are normal for a very few species...like tent caterpillars and webworms.
...See More
captaininsano (9b/13) Peoria, AZ.
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks I have dispatched the evil doers and will seek out their kin.
aztreelvr
9 years ago
Interesting. I've never had hornworms on my grapes. Thanks for the tip.

You can control any type of caterpillar with products containing Bacillus thuringensis - commonly called "Bt". It's a bacteria that only targets caterpillars and is safe to use around edibles, pets, and fish. A similar product is used to control mosquitoes.

Look for brand names like Thuricide, etc. Mix and spray on your vines. When the caterpillars eat the leaves containing the bacteria they die. It works better when caterpillars are young and you may need to spray several times during the season to catch new generations.
HaroldinGlendale
9 years ago
Now keep an eye out for the Western grapeleaf skeletonizer the real bane of growing grapes here. Bright yellow and black caterpillars, with hairs that can give you hives by just brushing against the leaves.
Here's more info: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r302301011.html
Fascist_Nation
9 years ago
What is the difference? They (were) are pollinators. And are attractive moths. Bottom line do they eat so much not to be left alone? I would not allow more than one in a single area.

This post was edited by Fascist_Nation on Tue, May 13, 14 at 22:10
iandyaz
9 years ago
I planted Datura last year and the Hornworms left all my plants alone except for the Datura. I think they go for the tastiest plant to them because there were 3-4 on each plant and they cleaned all the leaves off completely. I didn't find any on my tomatoes, grapes, or any other plant.

I didn't really like how the Datura's seed pods looked so I was going to dig them all up, but because of this, I left one alone to regrow this year and see if it happens again.
MaryMcP Zone 8b - Phx AZ
9 years ago
Yeah, those seed pods are pretty scary looking, huh??
HaroldinGlendale
9 years ago
Cut those seed pods off before they get very large to keep the plant blooming. If you are getting seed pods it means your blooms are being visited by the moths that lay the eggs that make those critters. Good advice to me from Grant years ago.
Mike Oxlong
8 years ago
I'd pay you for these if you ever get them again. They are sphinx larvae.
grant_in_arizona
8 years ago
Good suggestion, Andy. I grow tons of datura as well and get, and love those hornworm caterpillars. Happy gardening all!

Related Stories

GARDENING GUIDES 6 Plants That Beat Butterfly Bush for the Wildlife Draw

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

It's invasive, a nonnative and a poor insect magnet. Check out these better alternatives to butterfly bush in the garden

GARDENING GUIDES Hummingbird or Moth? See Why You Want Clearwings Around

By Pollination Press LLC

These fascinating moths may be helpful pollinators for your garden. Here’s how to coax them your way

HOUSEPLANTS Orchids 101: How to Keep Your Moth Orchids Alive and Blooming

By Marianne Lipanovich

Growing Phalaenopsis — and getting it to flower again — is easier than you might think

FLOWERS 15 Native Flowers That Attract Butterflies

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

By picking plants from this list that are right for your location, you’ll get colorful blooms and support pretty pollinators

GARDENING GUIDES Great Design Plant: Asclepias Incarnata for a Butterfly Garden

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

Beautiful swamp milkweed makes it easy to help monarchs and other pollinators in eastern U.S. gardens

FLOWERS AND PLANTS Help Monarchs and Other Butterflies by Planting Common Milkweed

By Pollination Press LLC

Summer-blooming Asclepias syriaca is an important larval host plant for the monarch butterfly and attracts a number of pollinating insects

GARDENING FOR BUTTERFLIES Be a Butterfly Savior — Garden for the Monarchs

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

Keep hope, beauty and kindness alive in the landscape by providing a refuge for these threatened enchanters

GARDENING GUIDES 6 Steps to Creating Your Butterfly Garden

By Debbie Ballentine

Encourage these fanciful winged beauties to visit your garden while helping restore their fragmented habitat

GARDENING GUIDES Great Design Plant: Butterfly Milkweed, a Beacon in the Prairie

By Pollination Press LLC

Vivacious orange flowers for you, nectar for the butterflies and bees. Asclepias tuberosa is worth planting for more reasons than one

EARTH DAY Create a Container Wildlife Habitat for Hummingbirds and Butterflies

By Noelle Johnson Landscape Consulting

Don’t let limited space prevent you from welcoming wildlife into your garden

Sponsored

More Discussions

What's wrong with my roses?

5

little bumps on rose leaves

1