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sgorny

Problem with Hippeastrum withering

sgorny
16 years ago

I bought some bulbs from Walmart, a few loose, a few in those "grow it with the expandosoil" packet gift set. I planted them in two different bowls, each 12 inch pots, one shaped like a teacup (painted and commercially glazed), the other shallower by about 1-2 inches, sloping outwards more (terracotta). Both bowls are from Walmart.

I used their potting mix (SuperSoil?), mixed with some smooth stone bits (commercially purchased), and made sure there was good drainage. I watered them two or three times a week before they sprouted, then every two days during budding and a bit more when they flowered.

The first one was already about 4 inches out of the bulb in the box. It gave me a beautiful (Sumatra?) bloom. Then another one (apple blossom?) came up, with a shorter stalk, but a *huge* flower. I had another one planted, and it started up out of the bulb, formed a bud, became bright red... and never opened. During this time, it sent up a smaller bud, which only came out about 1 inch before it seemed to dry up and become woody. The main stem still had good turgidity. Then slowly, slowly... the plant seemed to become woody, and then die. So I pulled it up, and planted a lily there (which had been knocked out of it's pot, so it needed a new home). And it has come up, breaking through the soil and extending about 1/4 now.

And now? It seems like the new leaf that was starting to come from my (Sumatra?) first bulb has now stopped developing, and is drying up (although it *is* just the beginning of one). And the other one (apple blossom?), which had the very tip of a leaf starting, well, that leaf is dead, and it seems to be taking forever for the other two flowers to mature.

The 3 in the teacup are doing great. Two have flowered, and are sending up new spikes, and one has two huge spikes with heavy buds ready to open.

When I water, I add it intermittently until it starts to drain out the bottom. I make sure not to get water into the bulb/leaf junction, but well around the base of the bulbs. After the first one just died, I put some Jobe's plant food spikes in (3 in each bowl), but that was just like 4-5 days ago.

So could it be the type of bowl? The fact that it's shallower, so there isn't as much room for the root system (although it's really not that much different on one side of the bulb - they are about 2" in from the outside wall, spaced evenly).

Help!

Comments (7)

  • liltika
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Given that this is (I'm assuming) their first bloom for you, they probably have not been in pots long enough to run out of room for roots (even at 3 to a pot). I would guess that the problem is probably watering (as that is a fairly common problem to have with these bulbs).

    You say you are watered them 2-3 times a week before sprouting then every 2-3 days during budding and then watered more during flowering. These flowers can be prone to root rot and so do not like sitting in too wet of soil for long. Over watering can result in new leaves growing in yellow and drying up (I've experience that one first hand!) or stalled and aborted buds. Even if your soil is well draining, it may still be too wet.

    When you first pot your bulbs, especially from box stores like Walmart, they may have little or no root systems. This means they won't be able to take in a lot of water initially. I believe the common advice is to water them well once and then to not water them again until they show signs of growth. Some bulbs won't grow roots until after they've flowered while others will grow them at the same time (or before). So there's probably a bit more risk of overwatering early on rather than later when they have established root systems.

    So I guess the first question I'd ask is does the soil dry out between your waterings? (When I top water mine I wait until its dry as far down as my index finger will reach-- others I've seen do it to the second joint of the finger.)

    Another reason I'm leaning toward the over water hypothesis is the watering "well around the base of the bulbs." If they are being over watered, that would pretty much ensure the soil in contact with the bulb is wet.

    So my suggestion:

    1. Definitely wait and see what more experienced growers than I have to say :) They can probably draw more and more accurate insights from the wealth of information you provided.

    2. Check the moisture of your soil and report back on that (it could help others diagnose the problem).

    3. (If you haven't already) Check for signs of pests that may be the cause or also damaging your bulbs. Look for red marks (signs the bulb sustained damage from pests, bruising, or other causes). Look for discolored spots on the stems, petals, and bulbs. Better to catch this now, especially if your bulbs are not doing well. Let us know if you see any of that; it could be bruising or it could be something else. :)

    My advice if the consensus is overwatering would be to carefully dig them up. Check for signs of rotting roots or bulb -- you'll want to remove the dead/rotting portions before planting it again. Then repot it in dry soil and do not water for several days (I'd only water lightly after that and gradually move up the amount). I would recommend only watering when the soil feels dry about 2" or so below the soil.

    Hope this helps,

    Liltika

  • jodik_gw
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You don't mention what kind of light you were giving your bulbs... and I'm curious to know what the root systems look like on your bulbs...

    Just a few facts about hippeastrum bulbs... they require a bit of room in the pot for root development, they hate wet feet and require excellent drainage... they like to dry out a bit in between waterings... they need a good light source, such as an east or south window... and they need warmth, such as you'd keep your home warm enough for the family in winter.

    Over-watering and not enough light are probably the two biggest problems associated with poor development of hipeastrum plants and flowers...

    I'm only a novice grower, and I'm not entirely sure how to diagnose your problem without knowing what your root systems look like, how much light your bulbs are getting... and it would be very helpful if you could post a photo or two...

    What I CAN tell you, is how I grow my bulbs... if I purchase a kit, like the ones Walmart sells, I pitch the pot and the soil and use my own. I prefer unglazed clay pots, and although I mix my own planting medium, Schultz or MiracleGro potting soil will work. I make sure the pots have good drainage holes, and I place about an inch or so of horticultural charcoal at the bottom of the pot for drainage. I plant my bulbs in a well-draining soil mix with about half of the bulb above soil level. I water it in, soaking it until the water runs out the drainage holes in the bottom of the pot. I set it in a window with a good amount of sun coming in, and I wait for it to root in and begin to send up scapes.

    After the initial watering in, I water it from then on from the bottom, filling the saucer and allowing the water to wick up into the pot so it's available to the roots, but doesn't keep too much moisture around the actual bulb. When I water this way, I allow the plant to take what it needs, then after an hour or two, I dump what's left in the saucer so it's not sitting in a swamp.

    Hippeastrum bulbs like to dry out a bit in between waterings, so I'm careful to check for moisture before watering again.

    While in flower, these bulbs do not require any feeding... but once finished, they will need to be fed on a regular basis to recharge. I feed with a regular houseplant fertilizer liquid, mixing a weak solution and watering with it about every other time water is needed. At this point, the bulbs will require a lot of light as they will grow several large leaves to utilize the sunshine to recharge.

    I, personally, don't put my bulbs through a dormancy period, and allow them to grow and do their own thing... they normally flower in early spring. If you prefer flowers at Christmas time, you can do a search here in the forum, and you'll find lots of information on how to put your bulbs to sleep so they're ready to bloom for the Holidays...

    I hope this helps you somewhat... I'm sure there are others here with more growing experience that can help a lot more... once you learn good culture techniques, growing these beautiful flowers can be very rewarding!

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  • sgorny
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'll take a closer look at them when I get home, but I noticed that one of the ones in the smaller pot had kind of a "seam-like" red-brown dashed/dotted line up each side of the spike (scape? is that what you call the flowering part, not the leaf?)

    And I'm thinking I water them too much, because There is generally water in the saucer of the bowls, in fact, that's how I made sure I watered it enough (too much). The soil doesn't dry out completely between waterings, I was worried because I've underwatered plants before.

    My plants sit in corner window that faces both west & north. The windows are large, but there is a porch with an overhang (of about 5-6 feet) on the other side of the window. They are definitely warm, as I keep the house at 65-70 degrees. However, they *do* sit near a heating vent (heat pump), because my house came with vents under every window. But the heat pump puts out less *hot* heat, more medium heat. So there isn't really a place I could put them inside that would get better light and less forced air heat - except where the kitchen table, where the cats would chew on them.

    Should I gently remove them from the pots to check for root rot? And... how do you tell? Is it mooshy, or dark, or peeling, or ??? And should I remove all the (whatever) parts?

    I'm feeling stupid here. Can anyone recommend a link to learn more about these flowers?

  • liltika
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I recommend the Wikipedia link as a good general start for information. Searching or reading through older forum posts is also helpful. There is a lot of good information there.

    According to thefreedictionary.com a scape is "A leafless flower stalk growing directly from the ground, as in the tulip." So it's not a leafy part at all :)

    I'll have to post some images later when I have my camera, but the "seam-like" red-brown dashed/dotted lines could be insect damage. You wouldn't typically find bruising on the scape, especially not in a line. I can't think of what else would cause that other than insects (though it could be viral - imho that seems less likely). If you could post a picture that could help :)

    I have some pictures of bulbs I bought in poor condition which ended up having pests. Two pests I can give you comparison photos of damage from are thrips and bulb mites. Knowing what (if any) pests you are dealing with is half the battle :)

    I can't offer advice on the lighting/heat. I would imagine that the vent underneath would dry pots out faster due to air flow and heat. I haven't had a chance to do balcony gardening (I will this spring!), but based on what members of the balcony forum say, wind is a drying force to be reckoned with for balcony plants. (I wouldn't necessarily move them, but it's something to think about with regards to watering.)

    I will say that I grow mine entirely indoors under florescent lights -- there's a fair bit of light and I keep them on 24/7 to account for the fact that there isn't quite enough light output as they probably need for a 16 on/8 off schedule. The apartment stays rather constantly at a little bit cooler than yours (mostly because I have a roommate who can't sleep if it's much past 65-68 degrees). I imagine it is probably a little warmer under the lights.

    My experience for unhappy overwatered bulbs is that un-potting them is probably a good option; if they are unhappy and not rotting, you prevent rot from developing and rule out that cause. If they are rotting you catch it, and after remove the "mooshy" roots and parts, they are (in my experience) happier after being repotted. Granted, no plant likes to be dug up, but the alternative isn't any better if its in too wet soil that won't dry out any time soon.

    The main concern with root rot is that it may do more damage than 'just' destroying the root system. The rot could potentially travel back up the root to the bulb and start rotting the basal plate of the bulb -- eventually eating its way through the bulb. It's easier for the plant to grow more roots compared to dealing with rot on the basal plate.

    My first bulb lost a leaf to overwatering before I knew what was happening with it; it took all the other five leaves drooping to the ground to make me dig it up. Within a few hours of repotting it in a drier mix (in this case, the old soil + dry soil + perlite for better drainage) the leaves went back to a regular position and it eventually re-grew a sixth leaf. There were several rotting roots on that one (you can really tell them apart from the live ones that are thicker, white, and fleshy rather than squishy and dark).

    It seems to me at least that there's a little learning curve with every new kind of plant. Once you get the feel for how much watering you need to do these flowers are pretty easy to care for :) I have to restrain myself from 'babying' them with too much water. Given my watering tendencies the only things I should be allowed to grow are algae and water lilies. And I don't think my roommates would allow me to have a pond in the apartment!

    Hope this helps. As always, definitely take the advice of the more experienced members over me :) There's a lot of wealth of knowledge on these boards!

    Liltika

  • liltika
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For comparison purposes, here's a slideshow of thrip and mite damage.






    Liltika

  • jodik_gw
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sgorny - From your description of watering habits, I would be willing to bet that the roots on your bulbs are rotting... carefully un-pot the bulbs and check the roots... as Liltika says, they should be white and fleshy if healthy... if they are brown and mushy, they are rotting. You'll need to remove any rotting parts to save the bulb.

    Using very clean, sharp scissors or a clean, sharp knife, carefully remove any rotting roots... gently wash any mush off the bottom of the bulb with tepid water, taking care not to get the crown of the bulb wet. Dab the bottom of the bulb dry with a clean paper towel, and set it aside somewhere safe and dry for a day or two...

    Gather together what you'll need to re-pot your bulbs... a well-draining potting mix, preferably unglazed clay pots about 2 or 3 inches wider around than your bulbs and fairly deep, horticultural charcoal (available at any store selling gardening supplies), rooting hormone powder, and Captan (an anti-fungal powder available at garden centers).

    Carefully dust the rotted areas of your bulb with Captan using a small paintbrush... dust a bit of the rooting hormone powder on the bottom of the bulb where roots will grow... prepare the pot by filling the bottom inch or so with horticultural charcoal... prepare your soil by pre-moistening it and mixing it well (you'll want it to be nice and moist, but not soaking wet)... add enough potting medium so that you can place the bulb in the pot and fill in around it... be sure that about half of the bulb is above soil level... carefully tamp down the soil around the bulb so there is good soil to root contact. Do not water the bulb for a few days! Then, only water from below when the medium is dry, filling the saucer and allowing the water to be wicked up from the bottom of the pot.

    If your bulbs tend to be top-heavy with long leaves and less roots, you'll need to stake the bulbs so they don't tumble out of their pots. Any garden stake will do... just stick it down into the medium as far as it will go, and using a piece of twine or a long twistie-tie, tie the leaves up loosely, just so they don't flop.

    After all this is accomplished and your bulbs are recovering, they may lose some leaves... do not be alarmed as this is normal. Give the bulb some time to grow new roots and recover a bit, and you'll see new growth start!

    To check for moisture in your pots, stick your finger down into the soil to about your second knuckle... if you feel any moisture, do not water. Check again in a day or two.

    The general rule for most houseplants, but not for bulbs, is that the soil ball should feel rather like a kitchen sponge that is damp and wrung out, but not soggy. Most bulbs prefer to dry out a bit before being watered again. Their fleshy roots and bulbous bodies tend to rot rather quickly when kept too wet.

    If you can't locate Captan for fungus control, cinnamon will work as an anti-fungal... however, I have read that cinnamon can inhibit root development. So, if you must use cinnamon, use it sparingly, brushing it on with a small paintbrush.

    I hope this helps you in case the diagnoses is root rot! I believe that it might be, judging by your watering habit description. I tend to have a heavy hand when it comes to watering, and must check myself often! If you're the type of person who tends to forget to water, these are the perfect plants for you! They do need moisture, however, they prefer to be on the dry side in between waterings.

    I've almost killed a couple of bulbs, myself, from over-watering... and I ended up having to perform surgery on them to save them! I am happy to report that both bulbs are now doing fine, growing well... I have to remember to check the soil for moisture before watering, and to make sure that the root area down in the pot is dry enough to require more moisture!

    If you're unsure about watering techniques, a good thing to have is a plant moisture meter. I bought one that checks moisture, PH levels, light, and fertilizer levels. It was fairly inexpensive, a good investment for someone like me!

    I also think that perhaps your bulbs are not getting the light levels they need. In order to recharge for next years bloom, they will need a good amount of sunshine and a decent feeding program. Once the weather in your area permits, it would be wise to take your plants outdoors and allow them to get some much needed sunshine, and you'll want to follow the directions on a fertilizer such as MiracleGro.

    Bring them back indoors before it gets chilly again, and from there, you can give them a rest period so you have blooms for Christmas, or simply treat them as other houseplants and allow them to grow and flower naturally.

    I know this is a long post, but I hope it will help you to care for your bulbs... if you have further questions, we're happy to help. You can use the search feature right here in the forum, type in the keywords of the information you're looking for, and you'll get tons of past posts dealing with that subject. There is a lot of very good cultural information here... your bulbs will thank you for doing a bit of reading!

    Happy Gardening!

  • jodik_gw
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Would you believe I forgot to make note of the mites in my last novel of a post?!

    Anyway... the red dotted lines on the sides of your scapes is damage left behind by the tarsonemid mite. I'm not certain I spelled that correctly, but it's a tiny microscopic mite that damages Hippeastrum bulbs.

    I've had a few bulbs with these mites, and I eradicated them by spraying my bulbs lightly with Schultz's 3 in 1 insecticide/miticide/fungicide spray, available at any store selling gardening supplies. I sprayed a light coating on the affected bulbs, and about a week or so later, sprayed again to get rid of anything that may have been missed or hatched in the interim.

    I have found that this particular spray works well for most insects, mites and fungal problems, and I use it quite a bit on my container plants outdoors. When I use it indoors, I do so with care...

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