Here we go again, let's not get hysterical over nothing much! According to the University of California Agricultural and Natural Resourses, it says:

Trace Elements and Urban Gardens
by Donald R. Hodel and Andrew C. Chang

Trace elements occur naturally in all areas and soils of the world. Indeed, some are essential for humans, plants, and animals. We always ingest them to some extent in food and water, and we breathe them in the air. Their concentrations are naturally low and usually not hazardous in non-urban areas with little or no environmental disturbance and past or present human activity. However, any place subjected to human activity is likely to have trace elements at elevated levels in the environment, particularly in the soil. While there is generally no cause for alarm, in some cases, these trace elements may accumulate to a level where it would be advisable to take measures that ensure they will not pose a health risk.

Potentially harmful trace elements, especially heavy metals, can accumulate in the soil and on plants, and may pose a potential health risk to people who breathe or, especially, swallow contaminated soil or eat contaminated vegetables. Although plants always absorb trace elements to some extent, in nearly all instances the quantities they take up are too insignificant to cause alarm. The potential harm is from trace elements deposited on leafy vegetables from dust, splashing water, and the air or are in the soil and cling to root crops like carrots and beets. In these instances, thorough washing of vegetables usually eliminates them. Lead is perhaps the most prevalent and problematic trace element in urban gardens but others, such as cadmium and arsenic, are often present.

Many urban community gardens also serve as family and neighborhood gathering spots where children actively play in the soil. Certain trace elements are especially hazardous to young children, particularly those under six years of age, because their tolerance levels to these contaminants are lower due to lower body weight and their still developing neurological systems are unusually sensitive to these elements. Also, the type of activity in which children engage, such as playing in the soil with frequent hand-to-mouth contact and even eating soil, allows them to ingest these trace elements directly.

So, are the elevated levels of potentially hazardous trace elements in urban gardens cause for alarm? No. Actually, the probability of harm is very low. We performed soil tests at several urban gardens in Los Angeles and in nearly all cases concentrations of trace elements were well within natural ranges. Even in the few instances where trace elements were slightly elevated, leaf and fruit tests showed that the vegetables grown in the soil had not taken up the contaminants in any significant amounts. Despite their presence, even at elevated levels, it is still possible to grow and consume vegetables safely and confidently if we understand the nature of these trace elements in urban gardens, including their origin, chemical form, and concentration in the soil, and take precautionary measures to reduce their availability to plants or eliminate them.
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Again, it clearly states:
Although plants always absorb trace elements to some extent, in nearly all instances the quantities they take up are too insignificant to cause alarm.

Here is a link that might be useful: Trace Elements and Urban Gardens

You may commence panicking now, if so inclined, though statistically, driving to the grocery store is more dangerous. So panic in moderation, if you can.

I grew up down wind from lead mines. I am just barely 71 years old and already I have lost three teeth. My left knee and the knuckles in my right had are weak. I can only sleep 7 hour a night. I have worn glasses since I was 25 years old. Most importantly I am cranky and rude.

albert, can you live next door to me? Love your humor and we might even garden well together :)

Note: We have a conversations forum side for off topic posts.

I don't worry about trace elements in my soil.
I assume there is more in the stuff at the grocery store anyway.

Our Neighborhood was built on farmland also.

I grew up in lead painted house and my mom gardened quite a bit... I guess I did not eat enough lead to cause a problem.

Karen

Albert~

I can only sleep 5 hours a night since I am half your age, had glasses at age 12, and lots of dental work, comparatively, because we used well water without flouride.

I am also cranky and rude, indifferent and jaded. I like plants because I generally don't like people very much.

In my case, these are personality flaws and have nothing to do with lead. I think.

Ellen, thanks for the heads up. Its worth a $25 test to see if there is lead in your soil. Sometimes your local cooperative extension or health department will offer the testing for free. As little as 400 ppm (.04%) is considered contaminated soil. Contamination of soil is not only from paint chipping off of old houses, but can occur from old cars or farm equipment that ran on leaded fuel as well as lead arsenate, a pesticide commonly used by orchards. Lead takes the place of other elements like iron and calcium. So if the garden is contaminated with lead, the lead will go into your dark leafy green vegetables (like spinach,or kale.)

FYI: You might want to check what some of the symptoms of lead exposure are; especially those claiming to be cranky, rude and not able to sleep.

Here is a link that might be useful: common signs of lead poisoning

Thanks booberry for popping in. I was just thinking - what a weird reaction from this group!
Usually people thank me. Then they check out the information. And most people think it's worth $10.00 [that's what my extension division charges] or $25.00 to eliminate any chance, small or large, of harming their child.

On this list people heap abuse on me, or they think it's funny. Well sorry I for one fail to see the humor in a lifetime of raising a handicapped child, esp when it is preventable.

MORZ8 Thank you SO MUCH for telling me. I posted it here bec. I wanted to reach the largest number of people.
This is not a conversation. This is a fact.

And there are some strange illiterate and heartless people on this forum. But fortunately there a lot of people who read who do not post and for them I post. I don't care about the abuse, if my post gets one parent to test their soil, and saves them the heartbreak I and thousands of others have endured, then I am glad.

Sorry Ellen, Was not meaning to attack you... It was good info you gave.
I am not too worried about the soil since we eat very small amounts of veggies from it. it is good info to have though
Karen

I don't think anyone was attacking but rather tempering, since many have heard this before.

All plant foods and ingredients are grown "somewhere" and it's more likely these growers are NOT checking for any contaminents in the soil...but of course, we march on over to the farmer's market or grocery to get our "safe" veggies without pesticides or herbicides.

~R
(aforementioned strange illiterate and heartless)

What bothers me, and I am one of the heartless ones, is when people post things and create fear or worry in others, without even checking the facts.

Do you believe everything you read, without even checking it out? Not me.

ok, so where's the line forming for checkups for us irritable, cranky, sleep-deprived gardeners with gastrointestinal blockages?

Oh, wait...I'm over 40, and I could just be getting old. Ok, never mind. Pass the Metamucil, please.

Sorry; I can't leave this one alone. Anyone else want the Metamucil when I'm done with it?

Constipation does not just manifest itself in gastrointestinal symptoms. When your digestive system slows down and substances build up in your colon, other problems may occur. Oftentimes, these physical problems are linked to chronic constipation symptoms, which can include: Headaches (including Migraines)

* Fatigue
* Depression/Anxiety
* Negative/Anti-social Behavior
* Excess Weight
* Hemorrhoids
* Elevated Temperature
* Body Odor
* Skin Spots/Rashes
* Mental Dullness/Confusion
* Ear Ache
* Sinus Problems/Allergies
* Nausea/Vomiting
* Poor Circulation

Hey wait a minute... I have had chronic and persistent collagenous colitis for the better part of 10 years. I always thought that was what made me cranky! Thank you pointing out the error of my thinking.

Now pass that Metamucil over here... it works both ways ya know!

I always check facts before I post something. To do otherwise would be stupid. But people can also check the facts themselves.
I for one am grateful when someone posts for ex re that mulch that caused some dogs to die. I don't mind if is slightly off-topic since I am not on any dog list. Or when people passed on the information re the contaminated dog and cat food that killed thousands of pet. I check it out and if it is verified then I pass it on.

I am not a scare-mongerer. But neither do I keep my head in the sand. I am mature enough to tell truth from fiction and I assume others are too. And if I don't know I don't feel a need to assault the person who is posting.

If there is lead in my garden, there is lead in dirt where our playground was build. Children are MUCH more likely to ingest the dirt on the playground, than the soil in your garden. Plants do not ingest the lead, it's on the outside of your veggies. WASH your HANDS, WASH your FOOD!

As quoted by the U of C... or Ellen did you miss this, or not even bother to read what I posted? Am I being rude by pointing out that there are other views on this? Other reliable sources that don't agree with what you say?

Read it Ellen... just this once.
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Potentially harmful trace elements, especially heavy metals, can accumulate in the soil and on plants, and may pose a potential health risk to people who breathe or, especially, swallow contaminated soil or eat contaminated vegetables. Although plants always absorb trace elements to some extent, in nearly all instances the quantities they take up are too insignificant to cause alarm. The potential harm is from trace elements deposited on leafy vegetables from dust, splashing water, and the air or are in the soil and cling to root crops like carrots and beets. In these instances, thorough washing of vegetables usually eliminates them. Lead is perhaps the most prevalent and problematic trace element in urban gardens but others, such as cadmium and arsenic, are often present.

I still don't see where the assault happened or the heaping of abuse.

If one person posts an opinion, how is not appropriate to post that there may be more to the subject or actual published criticisms or further research?

To me, hysteria is part of the brand of the NY Times. I'd double check it BECAUSE it was the NY Times.

Dear Ellen-
I'm sorry I lashed out; however, working with environmental engineers 24/7, and having an in-house Health & Safety officer flooding my work email box with OSHA recordable "watch-out-for-this" news flashes continuously, AND a MIL who feels it is her personal goal in life to forward every email chain hoax to her "everyone" list- it just gets old. While I appreciate your efforts to educate the masses, and while I know I had every opportunity to hit the 'back' button instead of the 'post a follow-up' button, I admittedly chose the wrong course, and was out of line.
My apologies.
The information you provided is duly noted, and I will check out your link and make an educated choice on the matter personally.
Thank you.

Ellen you are NOT checking facts. You are reading the same thing over and over from multiple sources that are NOT reliable. Blogs are NOT reliable!

You say: 'I for one am grateful when someone posts for ex re that mulch that caused some dogs to die.'

Again, I say you didn't bother to find out what the ASAPA had to say, SOME dogs did NOT die, one did and it was suspect. No one can even varifiy it... according to the A.S.A.P.A. Or does a blogger know something about animals that the A.S.A.P.A. didn't get the memo on?

Summary of the eRumor:
There are several versions of this eRumor but all of them say that commonly sold cocoa mulch contains theobromine which can be lethal to cats and dogs. One version tells the story of a pet owner who lost a dog because of cocoa mulch.

The Truth:
It's fairly well known that some animals should not eat chocolate and according to the experts we checked with that warning applies to cocoa mulch as well, although the number of reported animal deaths is very low. The villain is theobromine, a chemical that is similar to caffeine. It can give a boost to humans but dogs and cats cannot always metabolize it successfully and it can be lethal to them. That is especially true of the shells of the cacao beans, which are ground up and used in cocoa mulch, and contain even higher levels of theobromine than the bean.

Most packaging of cocoa mulch makes it clear that it's not for human or animal consumption. It also appears that all cocoa mulch is not the same. One manufacturer we checked with, the maker of Mirana cocoa mulch, said that their mulch is the result of a series of processing steps and that the level of theobromine in their mulch is barely detectable.

We did find at least one documented case reported in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA).. The report says that a dog that had ingested cocoa mulch developed convulsions and died 17-hours later. An analysis of the stomach showed ingested cacao bean shells and lethal levels of theobromine.

The AVMA has issued a release because of this new eRumor about cocoa mulch. It says that according to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA), there have not been any reports in 2006 of animals dying from cocoa mulch ingestion. In the years spanning 2004 and 2005 there were 16 cases of cocoa mulch ingestion reported, none of which resulted in death.

The ASPCA says that the account of the death of the dog named Calypso that is in the eRumor is 'suspect.' The symptoms are not completely consistent with death from cocoa bean ingestion. The ASPCA says that although vomiting is a common result, the dog is described as having had a single seizure the next day during a walk and then dying suddenly, which is not what would be expected.

Here is a link that might be useful: Truth or Fiction

I am truly surprised to see the development of this thread. I certainly have no greater knowledge than anyone else (and actually, probably lesser) of the particular subject matter, but the overall impression here is two wrongs don't make a right. I'd expect to find this on another forum, but not the WS forum.

I'm with Drippy. We are the warm, fuzzy and supportive forum and reading "barbs" from either end on this subject makes me sad.

I think that if topic is related to gardening, folks should feel comfortable posting here and not have to go over to conversations. Best if it relates to WSing but lets be honest guys, LOTS of threads get started that do not specifically relate to WSing. Or don't eventually anyhow (can you say hairy balls... smile) And we all have the choice to not click in.......

Just my 2 cents,
Nancy

No "fighting" on THIS special forum.. now THAT makes ME cranky...

:0/

Carrie

Where is this fighting? Where has anyone, including me, been heartless, abusive, or assault anyone, as some have been accused of? Do we really all have to agree with every post? Should we just let what might be shown to be misinformation, flow?

Drippy, who did what wrong? Please tell me!! I disagreed with Ellen... for that I am so sorry. It won't happen again.

That's ok. This whole thing is ridiculous. I'm done here.

Nancy - No one is mad at you, please don't see it that way - I think when you said the thread may have "created fear"... I don't think anyone thought of it quite like that - and it was merely another way of saying "everyone has their own opinion, don't get too upset"...

We love you, nancy... and I learned a lot from ellen's post and yours - thanks

Carrie