All my roses are in pots, for a few different reasons. About half are hybrid teas or grandifloras, the rest minis or minifloras, with one china rose. The hybrid teas (I generally avoid the largest growers) definitely tend to fill out and look better in the ground, but there are some I just want badly enough that I grow them in pots anyway. They still provide me with a decent crop of fragrant roses suitible for bud vases. I recommend if you do plant HTs in pots to try to get them on their own roots. Dr. Huey rootstock in particular is poorly suited for pots, as those thick taproots want to spread in all directions. I have 2 roses on multiflora roots that are doing well in 20 inch pots, but they're only starting their 2nd year, so the jury's still out. In Seattle it doesn't get too frigid in the winter (I grew up near there), which is a plus for pots. They might be fine left in the garden over winter with lots of insulating mulch around them. Mini-floras, which have been marketed as "patio" roses, I think are ideal candidates for pots. Some--like the beautiful Leading Lady, are nearly hybrid teas in size and bloom form, yet they tend to grow bushy and bloom prolifically. Some other mini floras you might consider could be Whirlaway (white), Electric Lady (pink)--This was a new one from Nor'East just before they stopped selling retail. It must be available from somewhere but I'm not sure where. Rosemania has quite a number of beautiful minifloras. I have and love Arcanum, Butter Cream, & Whirlaway. Others from various sources are Bees Knees, Flawless, Daddy Frank and Ambiance. One downside to minifloras is that few are fragrant. I have been quite impressed by the lavender mini Always a Lady, which for me has been extremely bushy, symetrical, and prolific and has gorgeous color and nice fragrance. Mike

Prior to this morning, I didn't even know there was any moringa threads on here. I started 8 seeds purchased on Ebay last September here in Riverside county between Temecula and Hemet. They all sprouted in ground. Two on one end of the hedge bed thrived and got about 3' tall prior to cold weather. The others stayed small, but alive. This spring the two on one end took off like rockets and are now 8' tall and full of flowers. I will say they are on drip systems, and get about 1 hours drip every other day. We plan to hedge ours for easy harvest of leaves and pods, so they will grow no higher than 8' tall. We discovered why the others didn't grow. There is a giant boulder about 6" below the dirt, so no place for their roots. They are still alive, but only 12" tall. I read that the Moringa Stenopetala has bigger leaves and tastes better, so we recently planted seeds of that variety in a different spot on our property. This morning one has sprouted. It's very cute and green and has it's own dripper, which we will turn off once it's established. That variety stores water in it's bulbous trunk and is very drought resistant, which is great in drought conditions here in Southern California. I will say it is very hot here in summer, and in the winter it can snow, but it never sticks. The trees do get set back in winter, but they spring up again when the weather warms.

KoaL4b3ars i am thinkijng the pot may be too small ? Moringa have ling tap-roots and i remember reading if it touches the bottom of the pot its bad news. i have always had problems keeping them in pots after they get about 2ft tall. they are a fast growing tree,, and WANT to grow fast when young. fast draining soil is great, but, if you dont have something to keep the moisture in, it means you have to water more often. they dont like soggy soil, but they do need water. so, i would water infrequently. 1 or 2 times a week, but, only if you can keep the soil a little moist. Here in New Orleans, it gets very hot and very long sunny days will dry out a potted plant in hours. in the winter (less hors of sun) , with temps in the 60s or less, cloudy days, and some mulch/compost on the top, i can go 3 weeks without watering moringa. so, its not a schedule you should follow, its soil moisture. deeper pots may be needed as well.

Thanks dannie for your suggestion on how to proceed, and both of you for expressing your sane doubts. Whether to try water culture is off-topic to the question, but I will digress to address the doubts. If you look on youtube "orchids full water culture" you will find a number of people blooming orchids in full water and part water culture (with great success). I agree it is surprising but it is a fact. OME, Orchid Whisperer, Samantha's Orchids, Diloram Brown, Trac McNguyen, so neaty, Sharon Short, and other Youtube publishers show lots of blooming orchids in water and give instructions. OME, Orchid Whisperer, Samantha and others list the reasons they prefer water culture. On the other hand, MissOrchidGirl tried it and didn't like it for her conditions (I think Romania, on a balcony with extremes of hot and cold), although she reported it did work for her phals. She has strong objections to it as un-natural. She says it works with phals because they are "weeds" that will grow in any conditions and that it's a "gimmick." Facts beat speculation. :) The great majority of people who tried it found it worked well for them, I only found two that didn't like it. To go into more detail, I observed that MissOrchidGirl seemed to me to have left some media on the roots, which is a no-no. It looks like she also used full water culture on plants that need part water culture (some need one day a week dry, some five days a week dry). Her problems with it may be part due to her technique and part to her growing environment which is way different from mine, which is much more like OME's and Samatha's. Aside from the fact that it is proven to work well if done properly in the right environment with the right species, you can ask why it works. Don't orchids grow in trees, not swamps and lakes, as MissOrchidGirl strongly objects on Youtube? First of all, water culture is not simulating a swamp or a lake. It is more like a little stream or a water reservoir in a depression in a branch or a hole in a trunk. The places where orchids grow have lots of streams and the rain forest canopy has lots of tiny "pools" or water caches in the branches, kept full since it rains every day. I have read that there are many species of animal, for example, that are adapted to live only in these small pools of water high in the forest canopy, or that depend on them for procreation. (The very common tank bromeliads hold up to 2 gallons of water high in the canopy, but I don't see how orchids can send roots into them. Maybe it happens. The canopy is not well studied.) Orchids growing right by these pools, either in the forest canopy or on logs, rocks and boulders by small streams or pools, can send out water roots into them for a steady reliable source of water and nutrients (like your clever Twinkie). If we are going to speculate on the evolution of orchids, I speculate that this is why many species of orchids and other plants too, like African Violets, are able to grow specialized water roots that can live in water. This situation happens often enough and it is so beneficial it promoted this adaptation and kept it in the genes. If it didn't happen enough in the wild, then according to evolution the plants should not have the genetic ability to grow specialized water roots. I have seen one photo of a large phal in the wild growing over rocks by a small pond, with its roots trailing into the water, which proves this does in fact happen in nature. It looks to me like this orchid, supposedly in the wild, has bare roots sprawled over the rocks with some roots dipping into the pool, very much like full water culture: As far as the advantages of doing this in cultivation, here is a list I made based on reports of successes: 1) no media to make a home for critters 2) no need to re-pot on a regular basis, because there is no organic media to break down and acidify. Never repot. When the orchid gets too big, just pick it up and put it in a larger glass vase (or coffee cup or any container). Not only saves a lot of work and time but also saves damage to roots. Keeps roots out of acid media. 3) most of roots are in air, so they get plenty of air, better circulation than in media 4) roots are completely visible for beauty (with a glass vase) 5) roots are completely visible for health monitoring 6) no guess about when to water, you keep the water at a specific level and top it off or replace it when low or cloudy 7) fertilizing is easy, several ways but you can add a very small amount of the right stuff to the water (e.g. 1/4 tsp / gal MSU) all the time. Very simple. 8) increases local humidity around plant 9) plants gets constant supply of water on demand, as much as it can use and no more, instead of depending on the grower's schedule 10) roots are prettier, silver above the water, green in the water. Never brown or dark. 11) roots get light and contribute (a small amount) to photosynthesis 12) with a large enough reservoir, you can go away for weeks and the plant will be fine. 13) you don't have to experiment with or buy the various media and mixes- bark, perlite, moss, leca, etc. No media at all. Very simple, very cheap, very clean. 14) no need to buy special orchid pots. Any cup or glass works fine. 15) as far as natural goes, no orchids grow in pots in nature. :) Yet pots work better than mounting on wood for many people due to their growing environment and time schedule, even for MissOrchidGirl. (I also doubt orchids in the wild have their roots immersed in small bark chips mixed with perlite, or wrapped in sphagnum.) There are also advantages to growing in bark based media, I am not saying water culture is superior for all plants and for everyone, just that it is not a totally untried, crazy idea. It is both well proven in culture and has a theoretical biological justification.