My first guess is you are still a little early. Blackberry lilies should DEFINITELY sprout for you. If it's been really wet, you might need a little more heat before everything starts going well.

Re: soil. I've been doing wintersowing for quite a few years. I have no problems starting all my seeds in the same soil. I usually use Miracle Gro potting soil or a similar brand.

Give it some more time...and watch for other zone fivers to start talking about their sprouts.

This works, I promise :)

I've got to agree with Lisa. It's still quite early for germination in Zone 5a.

You've been having some crazy weather swings and rain etc. same as MA has.
I'm in zone 5 MA and our weather had been crazy. Lots of rain, lots of freezing temps still too.

I'm guessing that the only real "problem" you have is what I would call "the Newbie problem", it's called impatience and fear that WS doesn't work. You have to see it with your own eyes to believe it.

This is my 6th year WS and I have near 100% germination every year. BUT, the dates of when seeds germinate varies so much from year to year. It all depends on the weather

This year, I have seeds germinating almost 2 weeks later than the same seeds did last year.

Your seeds will germinate when the weather is right for them to germinate.

Oh, last year my blackberry lily seeds didn't germinate until 5/10. You need more time for yours to germinate.

Fran

I think it's still way too early to think it's failure. How much sun are the containers getting? If they're in mostly shade, consider yourself zone 4 or even 3 in terms of when you'll see sprouts. I think rain can lead to failure if the lids are off allowing all the rain to get in, or you get so much rain that there's flooding in your area. Otherwise, jugs with proper drainage holes should be fine. How wet do you judge the soil to be?

Even if they are getting a lot of sun, it's early. I think my Beautyberry came up late, and I've had no success with Gentian after 2 tries. I have Prairie Smoke WS right now, no activity yet. Same with Blackberry Lily. Blackberry lily are really strong germinators, so they will come.

It's helpful to look at the Tom Clothier database, it can let you know if something is a slow germinator (like Gaura) or needs a temperature your jug hasn't gotten yet.

Sprouts will still come even if you use only horrible soil, but they won't thrive until they're free of it. (Although the wrong soil could hold moisture too well). I play around with sowing times too, I keep trying to see how little stratification I can get away with :)

I have sprouts in maybe 20 percent of my containers, and they're in as much sun as I can give them. What else have you sown? It's nice to do some lettuce or bachelor buttons because they sprout really early and help relieve the anxiety you're experiencing.

If it's of any help, I usually use about a 2 week rule of thumb between zones. I'm very close to Z6, but technically a 5, so when Z6ers start talking about sproutage, I expect mine to start within the next couple weeks.
Mine just started in full swing about a week ago, so I'd venture to guess that you're right on the cusp of the green wave hitting you.
Mine took a couple of good 55+ days to really get going; before that it was a single sprout here, single one there.
You obviously know what you're doing in the seed arena, so give it a little more time, and you should start seeing some activity.

Could you be in a micro-climate, that is even a bit colder that the area around you? My mother's house is in one. Outside of Westchester PA. Not sure what zone that is. She is on a hill that is frozen and windy until May. Her daffodils come out later than her nieghbors'.

I agree with the others, your seeds will sprout in the next few weeks.

Even over here in balmy zone 6b-7a, not everything has sprouted. Yes, the lettuce, tidy tips, bachelors buttons, foxglove, poppies and a few more things have, but I have perhaps 100 of my 200 plus jugs that haven't.

I tried an experiment with some Marigolds, I was worried I had put them out too soon. So I put their 1/2 gallon milk jug inside a big zip lock bag, that I cut two holes in the bottom of and closed partly on top. They sprouted quickly. Maybe they were going to anyway.

Let us know how things go! If you want some seeds to start over e-mail me, I may not have what you've done already but I can send you an assortment to play around with.
Good Luck
Audrey

I hope you see success. As for being too wet, some of my containers I did not put good drainage holes and they had lots of water but some seeds still sprouted. I am sure I would have had more sprouts if the drainage was better but I wanted you to know there is hope. I only used miracle grow soil until recently i bought some stagreen. both are seeming to work well. the stagreen has much less twigs etc.

Good luck from one newbie to another!
Karen

I think they are right. I have blackberry lily seed that has not germinated yet and am in 5b Ohio. I don't have any experience with the rest on your list though.

onetwothree - "I know from experience that seeds should never be planted all at once and not in the same planting medium. I've rotated planting times, soil mixtures, and containers "

You're making this too complicated. Just any good quality potting soil, put them out and forget them - you don't need to worry about the same controls as though sowing indoors.

With a freely draining potting soil rains shouldn't be an issue - We are having our 4th consecutive dry day since about November here, there are no wetter climates than my own :)

But I think it's certainly too early to be counting failures - I'm an 8b (just one with cloudy cool summers) and I have several pots of perennials just beginning to germinate this week. The beautyberry and spiraea should germinate when your temps are a little warmer (nights too) - some gentiana will take an additional 6 months to germinate after being provided with a moist chill so depending on which you sowed you may need some patience here.

Out of over 70 varieties that I have sown so far, I have 4 containers with sprouts. Check out the link below for a better idea of what should be coming up in zone 5.

By mid May things are really going to start popping up for us!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Zone 5 Germination Database

My blackberry seeds are just sowing signs of life, as well as many of my WS containers. I have had great germination in many of them and planted out few but have good 100 that still not showing much. I have done WS for several years and am not worried. I consider failure of easy to germinate seed like zinnia if nothing happened in my pot by early June. Many perennials either get strategically damped or stay for while. Gentians are toughies and I am only able to germinate them with GA-3/ see JL Hudson, seedsman website for details/
I do not know where you coming from with idea that seeds need different mediums to germinate or can not be placed all together. I have germinated seeds in coffee filters, paper towels, moist sand, vermiculite and soiless mix- it does not matter- whatever is your fancy at that time.
Rotting could be a potentially big problem if your drainage is not adequate. If you able to check seed like balckberry seed is very visible squeeze it gently between your fingers. Viable seed should be firm.

I dont know hwere in zone 5 you are, we jsut barely started having nights above freezing. Lots of things are still sleeping and waiting for it to be warmer at night.

Sprout anxiety can be brutal, specially the first year. You gotta CHILL!

BTW, you already have 2/3 sprouted, I say that is far from massive failure!

:)

Wow,

Thank you all for the encouraging replies!

I guess all of those pictures that others have posted of those bright green plants growing in several inches of pure white snow made me a little antsy.

Usually I'm very patient.

The other week I also planted about 20 containers of quick germinating plants which I would normally expect to be sprouting by now (at room temperature inside.) The cold evenings have probably slowed these down just as others have stated. I think that these extra ungerminated seed containers sitting around have subliminally added to my anxiety. :)

Thanks again for all of the encouragement and advice!

Regards,
Tim

Tim,

Patience, patience, patience.

We fully expect to hear from you towards the end of May stating something like this.

"Oh, Oh, Oh, what did I do to myself. How am I going to get all these seedlings planed and where in the world am I going to put them all."

Welcome to the world of WS. Impatience is our worst enemy, especially for the Newbie.

One thing to remember too. You don't want the seeds to germinate to quickly either. You will still get some very cool to cold nights and those nights could very well put a crimp in your seedling numbers. They don't like the cold temps in the spring any more than we do.

We will be waiting to here from you again with "seedling overload" before the end of May.

Fran

So, Tim, like where the heck are ya? Like what state?

:)

Doris, he lives in Pennsylvania.

live in zone 5a (Pennsylvania. If I had stratified my seeds in the ground I certainly wouldn't be expecting anything yet. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little?

I had to read his post twice to find it too :)

Tim, you can put your state and zone up by your name. It makes it helpful to people when they are asking your questions if they can just look up and see where you are.

...I've been on here so long I don't remember how to edit that information, but I'm sure someone can tell you :)

Lisa

Dorsl, I live in Central Pennsylvania. (Zone 5a)

Little1fb, I certainly will be posting again later with my final results.

By the way, here is a post from v1rtu0s1ty (also from zone 5a) which sort of sat in the back of my mind and finally prompted my post:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/wtrsow/msg0421224924217.html?2

This successful member is is from Northern IL. I guess that I erred in the assumption that they probably had they're probably having the same sort of weather that I'm having. I realize, after very little thought, that this was a bad assumption.

Thank you and take care!
Tim

"I'm having. I realize, after very little thought, that this was a bad assumption"

Yep, zones arent the whole story, zone 5 in CO warms up a bit ahead of zone5 in IL in the spring, yet they frost earlier than we do. makes ya nutty if you think about it too much.

Hmm...I don't see any of your seeds on Virtuosity's list! He/she has a lot of sprouted containers, but _possibly_ just 1 or 2 sprouts in each, not dozens. And yep, no 2 zone fives (or sixes or whatever) are the same. I'm pretty close to northern Illinois, and we've both had a looooong winter, but it warms up faster when Lake Michigan isn't there to keep things cool. And, how much sun the jugs get makes all the difference.

Spring weather is late arriving in upstate NYS so I imagine the same is happening for you. Normally by this time I've already had the flower beds uncovered for several weeks. I just this past weekend cleared the first of the three off. The night time temps have been colder than average.
The daffs are even behind. Typically by this time of year I have blooms all over the yard. They know the temps at night have been below average and they are taking their time opening up too. Be patient. I think by the end of next week you will see some big changes if what the weatherman is saying is true.

Zone 5 varies from state to state and even within a state.

zone maps do not take into consideration the areas that get snow cover that protects various perennials through the winter; nor does it take into account areas of zone 5 that do not have snow cover or snow cover long enough to protect perennials through the winter.

It doesn't take into account weather extremes that can vary from one year to the next. Things like minimal snow cover for that year, low temps that are not usual for that particular zone 5 or severe ice storms that come instead of rain or snow.

Zone maps should be used as a guide only, and not the be all that ends all guide to what to grow.

If it is hardy to zone 5 and you are in zone 6, then you should be OK with that plant surviving the winter.
On the other hand if it is hardy to zone 5 and you are in zone 5, then you may or may not get that plant to survive the winter, but if it doesn't and it blooms the first year, you could use it as an annual or take a chance and hope for the best.

Zone maps also don't take into account those micro areas in any given city or town or even in our own yards that can make the difference between one zone or another.

Zone maps have recently changed and some areas are now in a warmer zone or on the border of the warmer zone than they used to be.

In my case, part of my town is in zone 6 and part of it is zone 5. The town is in a valley and depending on where you are headed down into the valley, determines whether you are in zone 5 or zone 6.
I am now much closer to zone 6 than I was even 5 years ago,according to the new maps, BUT, i've rarely had a perennial that is hardy to zone 5 survive the winter and I have yet to get a perennial that is hardy to zone 6 survive the winter.

Mother nature is the one in control on when seeds will germinate and they will when she says the should germinate. They won't germinate before she gives the go ahead.
When she does, you will see green sprouts in your containers, slowly at first and then more and more will come, until you find that you check in the morning and have sprouts, check in the afternoon and you have more sprouts and check before the sun goes down and you have even more.

Patience is the name of the game, not zone numbers. It will happen, just wait and be patient.

Fran