So far I have unintentional "selfs". Apple Blossom and Paris. I learned the hard way about selfs last year...so will probably just plant them in "gang" pots with labels.

Other crosses are too early to see what is going to take.
K

I've got to build a second windowsill till then so that the new seedlings have some space too. Perhaps I'll try to get my hands on seeds of natural varieties this year but for my own crosses I have no plan at the moment. I'll definitely try papilio x Picotee if both of them turn out to be the ones I bought.

I've got a healthy pod coming of Limone (or Limona) x Giraffe, done quite a few with Exotic Star both on Limone and Lemon Star, thought the burgundy stripes on yellow would look nice HA.....but don't know if they've taken yet. I thought I had Papilio and I was going to do a few with that but got Giraffe instead. Tried to self Pasadena but they seem to all be shriveling up.Only one for sure is Limone x Giraffe! If I'm successful with any of my attempts I would be glad to share with anyone! I have to limit myself to only planting 10-15 of any cross this year. Last year when I didn't know what I was doing (not that I do now) I ended up with about 150 selfed red lions and they all got as big as golf balls but I had them so crowded they got too wet in the rainy summer and they all got the dreaded red blotch and we threw every single one of them away! Just as well, it was learning experience and I don't know what possessed me to self red lion, (kind of dumb)!!

My first time at Hippies I did hand pollinate Nite Star and Minerva. I didn't do any crossing though as I am unsure of how that works.

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I also have a bowl of water about 1 foot in front of a small space heater that keeps the area at 68 - 70 degrees and some added humidity and a small tube lighting set up. I thought it would be fun to try to get seedlings for my first Hippies.

You've got some nice looking seed pods there you're on your way!!

I have some nice pods from my Red Lion, one crossed with my Appleblossom, and one selfed. I'm not sure if I want to grow the seeds or not. I am cramped for space already! Judging from my experiments with my zygocacti, I would just get washed out ugly red flowers from them. (At least that is what the crosses I made of the red and white zygocacti gave me) My Appleblossom never has made any seed pods, and I have tried three years running! I think I remember a post a while ago where Hans Werner said he wished for some selfed Appleblossom seeds. I don't have a lot of bulbs, and probably the ones I have wouldn't make such interesting crosses.

It's too early to count the seeds or their viability, but I did cross Pasadena and Minerva... and there is a fat pod growing on Minerva.

The odd flower that isn't Apple Blossom took some Minerva pollen nicely, and though the pods are still small, they look good.

I have so many other seeds to plant yet... I need to get going on that.

The few I had made, aborted and most of the "selfs" have as well. Still a few on, but it's early and they may yet abort. Still have the saved pollen from LITTLE STAR to use on the Cybister Hybrids.

I just saw that my own cross "white x red" three ones are pushing flower stakes, I'll wait how they'll look like and then decide how to proceed further with those. Perhaps also papilio x "white x red"?

That sounds very interesting, Carl! A line breeding back to an ancestor... I'd love to see the results! I just wish it didn't take quite so long from seed to flower!

Yes, three years is a long time. But I have to say that the white x red-cross had a really tough start. They didn't have enough sun, bad medium and didn't get any fertilizer. But still, they are showing buds after just 2 years and 8 month. Lora did it in 18 month, I don't think my next generation will be that fast, but 2 years is ok. I can wait that long.

What do you mean with breeding back to an ancestor? The papilio is just included in a few breeds ... Giraffe and Exotic Star to name the best known ones. The both big flowering dutch varieties I used should have no papilio genes at all.

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I have a huge pod of well developed Kaitlin seeds, my first Maguire's seeds. These were selfed, the only one I tried of the Maguires ones. I would be glad to trade seeds for anything interesting you can offer. A good chance to get some Maguire's genetics added to your collection. Kaitlin was superb, a nice medium sized blossom on a tall sturdy stem, and she lasted a long time in bloom. Her color was saturated and non fading.

I could trade you an orange clivia seedling for a few of your hippi seeds? I might have to wait until the weather warms before I can send anything--too many 10*F nights right now...

--Rr

Just Beautiful!!

REDBEARD, you are on! Please also include instructions for making them grow. I had one that never did anything bought a yellow one from ETGB.com and have hopes for it. Let me know when your weather is good for sending. How many seeds would you like? My one pod was loaded!

I might have some Black Pearl x White Nymph, Miss Labled Full House x Exotica, Miss Labled Full House x Fanfare, Or Miss Labled Full House x Santa Cruz to trade they are at a pretty mature state in the pod development.

Here is a reminder of what my Miss named Full House looks like.
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For those who are interested in trading.

Liza & AJ--I will email you to discuss a trade, or you can contact me at RRedBBeard at yahoo dot com. It should be warm enough by March 1 to mail things safely, I think...

Thanks!

--Rr

"What do you mean with breeding back to an ancestor? The papilio is just included in a few breeds ... Giraffe and Exotic Star to name the best known ones. The both big flowering dutch varieties I used should have no papilio genes at all."

Maybe I misunderstood, Carl. However, I was under the impression that Papilio is in the pedigree of quite a few hybrids.

I just wanted to make this post before going to bed, somehow Opera struggled with Gardenweb today, no idea what's wrong now ... hopefully it works now with the IE ...

You've got Veronicas book, or? There's a list of species introduced into commercial breeding on page 32. Papilio sadly hasn't got the impact on breeders as it deserves. It's unique shape is really something wonderful compared to the dull round faces of the big dutch hybrids. Then, on pg. 43 you can read this:
"Hippeastrum leopoldii was subsequently used to create the first Leopoldii hybrids which, together with the Reginae hybrids, have dominated developments of large-flowered hippeastrums for almost 150 years."

Yes, I do have her book... and although I use it for reference sometimes, I have not read it cover to cover. I do not subscribe to some of the same methodology she uses, namely the soil. But it's a wonderful book for historical reference, and about the only really in depth book available on the Hippeastrum.

I'd have to search, but I think I read that Papilio was used in several varieties... such as Striped Panther and others. Although, it is noted that the Papilio we know today, which is considered as evergreen, might not be the actual original species discovered, which was deciduous.

Yes, I think so too ... also nearly all of the natural species have Self-incompatibility-systems. But the papilio that's available is self fertile.

My understanding is that (by definition?) any species crossed by another of the same species should produce seedlings that are the same as the parents' phenotype/genotype. Is this true of papilio? That is, do they 'breed true'?

Of course, my next question is: does anyone have (or expect) some papilio seeds to share?? :-)

--Rr

Well in natural species you always have a lot of variety. They shouldn't be homozygous for all of their characteristics so the genotype shouldn't be true, whereas the phenotype would most likely not change a lot.

For papilio, and I guess that's what Jodik wanted to write too, the one clone you're getting hasn't got other species traits, but it was edited by breeding. It's not the one you'll find in the wild so I guess it's most likely homozygous for a lot of genes.

I think for the two blooms I'm supposed to get I'll pollinate both of them with my own cross (hopefully they hurry!) ... so sorry I'd love to send you seeds, but not this year.

Jodik: I wanted to send you pollen from my "round-type" papilio to pollinate your "enlongated one" but sadly this one gave up, right? Your small ones still need time to flower so at the moment it wouldn't make sense to send you some?

Well in natural species you always have a lot of variety. They shouldn't be homozygous for all of their characteristics so the genotype shouldn't be true, whereas the phenotype would most likely not change a lot.
For papilio, and I guess that's what Jodik wanted to write too, the one clone you're getting hasn't got other species traits, but it was edited by breeding. It's not the one you'll find in the wild so I guess it's most likely homozygous for a lot of genes.

I think for the two blooms I'm supposed to get I'll pollinate both of them with my own cross (hopefully they hurry!) ... so sorry I'd love to send you seeds, but not this year.

Jodik: I wanted to send you pollen from my "round-type" papilio to pollinate your "enlongated one" but sadly this one gave up, right? Your small ones still need time to flower so at the moment it wouldn't make sense to send you some?

My two younger Papilio bulbs have not yet flowered for the first time... so, pollen can't be used at this time... but I do appreciate the thought! :-) Perhaps in the future.

I'm hoping to obtain a couple of adult Papilios next year... I do hope Royal Colors has them available.

The only way to get a carbon copy of anything is to clone it... there is a certain amount of variety within the ranks of any living thing... nothing is completely homozygous.

So, if you crossed two different Minervas, you may or may not get a plant that has the same characteristics as a Minerva. The same is true if you self a Minerva... there is still an almost infinite way to line up those chromosomes and alleles of those chromosomes. Mother Nature always has the final say, so... though we may manipulate genes a bit, we cannot control them. We have all of the ancestors and their traits, and combinations of their traits, to consider.

I moved from Illinois to Texas with a bunch of Amaryllis, and expected to do great things with them. But the first couple of years I was here, I lost a lot of plants to deer and grasshoppers. I lost interest and consolidated pots, lost labels, etc. I had papilio from three different sources and a number of hybrids of my own and some from a couple of other enthusiasts. I managed to keep track of my first hybrid, unnamed red x Purple Sensation F1. These have nice red flowers. (I understand red is dominant in Hippeastrum.) I have crossed the F1 with apple blossom, but lost most of the seedlings. I also selfed the F1's and have a bunch of year old seedlings planted out in a raised planter. Anyway, now I am taking better care of what I have. Several other bulbs have bloomed. Most have had orange flowers with green strips, but one was a nice scarlet. I selfed that one and have a bunch of seedlings coming along. I am waiting to see what I have before buying many more.

Jim, funny about those grasshoppers isn't it? Actually, "funny" isn't the right words for it - more like sad. I was amazed that it was grasshoppers that ate all the leaves off some of my bulblets in so quick a time. I found those little buggers and shooed them off my deck (where I grow my bulbs in planters) but sure enough they came back. They must think young hippi leaves are quite the delicacy. For the deer, I use something called "I Must Garden" to deter them off my garden annuals that they like - I wonder if I can use that to keep the grasshoppers away too?

I've got a bunch of seedpods cooking - I used Moonlight pollen on everyone.
Alana

I bought some grasshopper bait at Natural Gardner in Austin, and put it out three years running. Haven't had a real grasshopper problem since. The first two years there was a considerable variety of grasshopper species. Some plant would get stripped by one kind of grasshopper; then grow back fine for some time, then get stripped by a different kind of grasshopper. The deer would eat the amaryllis leaves an inch at a time (I understand the leaves are poison.) They pulled up amaryllis until I started burying the bulbs.

Here's my deer/tree rat repellent recipe: Take a plastic 1 gallon milk jug, and thoroughly mix 2 raw eggs with 2-3 quarts of water in the jug. Let this stand at room temp for at least 10 days, and every 2-3 days, sprinkle small quantities around the plants that you want to protect. mixture is 'bad' for 4-6 weeks.

Works just fine for me!!

--Rr

Rr, interesting - I'll have to try that. I've also found that coffee grounds work pretty well. Found that out completely by accident. Alana

Another great deer repellent is irish spring body wash, the liquid stuff. Mix this with water in a sprayer. Works Great! And one thing I have learned is to alternate your repellent from week to week. Deer get used to a scent, so you need to trick 'em.

I've got four pods collected and more coming. The four are.
'Pres. Johnson' x self
'Pres. Johnson' x 'Flamingo Star'
'Sumatra' x 'Elaine Grace' and
'Lemon Star' x 'Kaitlin'

Primeribs, good point on alternating. I had heard that too. Together we've got a bunch of different things to use.
Alana

Wowzer -- Congratulations Primeribs!!!

Not to diminish the potential beauty of your first two crosses, but 'Sumatra' x 'Elaine Grace' and 'Lemon Star' x 'Kaitlin' should be stunning.

Cheers,

-B

primeribs, those sound interesting. Congratulations ... I've searched for Elaine Grace, but couldn't find any pics. What's this one like?

Thanks everyone! I hope they turn out to be something unique, but we shall see in time: )

betonklotz, E. Grace is a Maguires bulb from Australia. It is a nice soft baby pink, with medium size flowers.
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I just have some Novella x self pods forming. I don't know if it will be viable, or a true offspring like the parent.

Thanks for showing the pic Primeribs. This one has a nice green eye, I'm not sure how I might picture the outcome of the cross but it really sounds interesting. Aren't the cybisters diploid? I'd guess that 'Elaine Grace' is a common tetraploid one, so congratulations again!

Yes, I believe most of the cybisters are diploid. But to be honest, I'm thinking only a handful will sprout out of 128 seeds (2 pods worth).