Rugosas are *not* shade tolerant. They also require acidic soil. The ones I've found to be the most unrugosa like in those characteristics are the Explorer ones like Jens Munk.

Basically, I expect there is a reason you aren't personally familiar with them.

Rugosas aren't shade tolerant? Some years ago I grew Blanc double de Coubert and often read that it would tolerate some shade. All the ones I listed above were described online as tolerating some shade also. So what has everybody experienced in their gardens?

As for the soil, it is not alkaline here in southeast Kansas--if that is what you were thinking. Other than that, I don't know what the point of your comment was.

If I planted only the roses I see growing in gardens around me, I would have nothing but Knock Outs or a handful of Hybrid Teas--mostly Knock Outs nowadays. Fine for those who like that, but that is not what my garden is about.

My assumption has always been that a lot of people think near species = shade tolerant, so assume rugosas must be shade tolerant. My experience is that they really aren't. Remember these are called beach roses, and there isn't a lot of shade at the beach.

So what is your pH? Mine is 7.2, and is far too high for rugosas. I've heard they want a pH around 6 or lower. Since locally pH varies enormously in a short distance, it's a variable that can be controlled for.

Rugosas are among the few roses you do actually see around here. Like azaleas, I'd be really suspicious if you don't see them locally.

I've read Professor Roush's comments on his blog about some of his rugosas. I think he's in the Flint Hills area of Kansas - isn't that southeastern Kansas? He's mentioned a couple of them in various blog entries. Here's a link, in case you hadn't seen this. If you have, please excuse me.

Maybe he'll show up and comment.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kansas blog on rugosas, Garden Musings, Prof Roush

Well, thanks a lot, mad gallica, for all the encouragement. Guess I better just rush out next spring and buy myself some Knock Outs--so I can be like all the neighbors. Maybe I should dig up all my hybrid musks and hybrid perpetuals also--no one around here grows them. And my dozen Austins will need to be spaded up--never have seen even one growing in this town. For that matter, I'm not sure I've ever seen even floribundas growing in this town--oops, there go another dozen of my roses. Yup, soon I'll have nothing but Knock Outs!

Kate

I have been very impressed by my Galleria. You can't beat her for color !!! And she's just about the size and shape you mentioned....sending up gorgeous strong pink flowers that have been catching my eye even this last week of rain...

Here is a link that might be useful: check out Galleria

I had never heard of Galleria but that is a pretty rose. My favorite of the pink ones is Jens Munk and for white I like Schneezwerg best, although many people like Blanc Double de Coubert. I wasn't that impressed the one time I saw it.

Kate, I've found that until you try something for yourself you can't be sure whether it will do well or not. If you like rugosas, by all means try one!

Ingrid

Sounds like Mad Gallica has the Christmas Crankies. Ignore her. You won't know until you try. I agree that they do prefer more sun. I have Blanc D growing in partial shade and she is not happy. The rest of mine get more sun and do much better. I've also found rugosas to be slow starters, so don't be disappointed if you just have thorny twigs for the first few years. Frau Dagmar is short and, like many rugosas, suckers. If you don't want suckering, try Will Alderman (pink) and Fimbriat (white). Both get to over 5' and have nice vase shape and bloom continually except in high heat.

Go for it, Dublinbay! In my garden I have to constantly deal with encroaching shade from trees, especially conifers. So, at least half of the prime spots are probably half-shade (4-6 hours of sun). The rugosa that has performed the best for me in those conditions (in acidic soil) has been Roserai de l'Hay. She would certainly get more blooms with more sun, but if I feed and water well, she looks great! And she gets between 5-6 ft. By the way, a lot of roses will actually grow taller in shadier spots, Good luck!

Ian

Blanc double & it's sport Souvenir de Philemon Cochet have great fragrance but crisps very quickly here before the bloom is fully open it's already often fried along the edges.
I Love Sarah Van Fleet big rose Can get to 8X8 here.
I've seen Schneeezwerg it's quite pretty I don't remember it burning so easily

I live in Sweden and my soil is heavy clay. Rugosas may prefer sandy soil but mine have had no choice. I've never heard that they should prefer acidity. They don't need pampering in general but the rebloomers benefit from a little manure.

Rugosas tend to get big but a few stay short. Moje Hammarberg is a strong magenta, so probably not for you, but I mention it because it grows in part shade between a thicket of spinosissimas and a huge Martin Frobisher and in a north-east position. Dagmar Hastrup is another low rugosa, pearly pink. Dart's Defender stays small but doesn't have much scent. Charles Albanel, Henry Hudson, Marie Bugnet, Mrs Doreen Pike, Wild Edric and Delicata are some of the shortest in my climate but you'll have to find out how tall they will get for you.

another vote for frau dagmar from me. If your austins do well, Wild Edric has been a lovely rose (although I know this is not the colour you were looking for)

The most popular rugosa i Norway and Sweden just now, is 'Louise Bugnet' with white flowers and red edges. A wonderful rose without thornes.
Dag

hmmm, just a thought - if you fancy a yellow, Agnes is rather good although it can reach 2m high and wide.

Oh Dublinbay, please say it isn't so about the Knockout plan!

Roses of the size and less mad colors that do well here in Kansas; Jen's Monk (pink) a little bigger, Blanc de Coubert (white) about right, Martin Frobisher (light pink), good grower, Agnes (Yellow) about right size, Rugelda (yellow with red tips) taller but prettier, Souvenier de Philemon Cochet (white) just beautiful, and finally, Linda Campbell (bright red) see link below

If you get anywhere near Manhattan (presuming you live farther south in Kansas), feel free to call me and come by to view Rugosas; although now you'll need to wait about 6 months to see them in bloom.

Here is a link that might be useful: Linda Campbell entry on Garden Musings Blog

Hybrid Rugosa roses can have anything in their backgrounds, in addition to Rosa rugosa itself. Their appearance and behavior varies accordingly. Most garden forms encountered will be hybrids rather than pure R. rugosa variations.

During one rather wide-reaching organized trial undertaken years ago in someplace like Michigan the top-rated one was 'Fru Dagmar Hastrup' ('Hartopp' etc. are incorrect). An apparently mostly unattended hedge of this in my area probably exhibited pretty much the 4' height attributed to this variety. In addition to producing a better habit than usual for this group this variety has the outstanding feature of producing silvery pink flowers that do not clash with its crimson red hips, unlike most (all?) other kinds which produce tomato red hips.

Dagmar also has a nice dense habit with particularly attractive foliage.

Hey, thanks for all the input. I guess I'll scratch the Knock Out plan after all. LOL

Sorry if I was a bit grouchy myself earlier there. I shouldn't post when I'm tired.

I'm taking notes on all these suggestions. One question I do have is does Fru Dagmar have those crinkly rugosa leaves? I really do like those. I'm assuming that some of the hybrid rugosas do not have them--although they seem to have other virtues.

Do wish there were some way to verify the mature height of the Dagmar. Four feet would work all right, but three feet is a bit short. Can't seem to get a fix on her height.

Prof. Raush--I'd love to visit if I ever end up in the Manhattan area during rose-blooming season.

Thanks, everybody. I'm still open to any other info. anybody wants to add.

Kate

Here in Minnesota rugosas grow like weeds. The city even plants them in the medians down the center of the road. I had no idea that they preferred acid soil because most of the soils here in Minnesota tend toward alkaline.

Like others have mentioned, my favorite is Jens Munk. It's flowers are a pretty clear pink. It is extra extremely cold hardy, and disease resistant. It gets big (around 6' by 6'). I also like Pink Grootendorst.

If you dislike suckering and extreme thorns then rugosas are not a good idea.

Dagmar here is 4 x 4 with some cutting back each year.

Foliage is quite rugose but slightly glossy compared to some other rugosas.

I've seen a lot of Rugosas in my neighborhood, where the soil is the next-best thing to alkaline pla-doh.

If you like the crinkly foliage, for a white, you can't beat Blanc de Coubert or Philamon de Cochet (sp?). Both are about as krinkly as they come. I'd recommend staying away from the Grootendorsts though....very large shrubs, maybe 6 feet by 6 feet and thorny as all get out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings Blog

Thank you for the Pickering grafts suggestion, Olga. That is very helpful.

I think I'm strongly inclining towards Dagmar--but I'm still concerned. Some of the descriptions I read on google refer to her as a "groundcover." I hope she really is 4x4--the smallest I would want to consider for that spot.

Rugosa Alba and Schneezwerg are kinda nice-looking whites, on the other hand.

Kate

Go for Polareis! My most bulletproof rose, gets NOTHING, holds green healthy leaves even in hot dry conditions. It has the rugosa foliage you want, and blooms even after frosts. And it gets really big, but easy to shape - the form of the bush is now a giant ball since the long canes arch over and I haven't pruned it except for damage. When it was younger, the canes made a wide vase shape until they got so long their own weight pulled them over. And then of course new canes broke upward from the arching cane, contributing to the ball of bloom P presents in late May. If I could only have one rose, it would be this one.

My DH loves Sarah Van Fleet. He gets a huge kick out of the contrast between her frilly, delicate pink flowers, and big, scary sharks' teeth-like thorns. She is about 7 feet tall and grows in front of our home office window. In early summer, the rugosa rose scent drifting in through the window is almost overwhelming. I don't have a recent picture of her blooming, but will try to get one next summer. I like that she reblooms and does not sucker on her own roots.

My other fav rugosa is Theresa Bugnet. Her only drawback is that she does sucker. Other than that, I love her 2-tone pink flowers, and the contrast between her red canes and healthy, blue-green leaves.

For me, knowing whether a rugosa is the suckering type would be one of the main criteria of which rugosa to grow. I would not look forward to pulling out suckers every summer for the years ahead.

Come to think of it, neither have crinkly foliage.

Don't forget the "Grootendorst" rugosas - they are tough and pretty! There is more information at:
http://rosesforenglishgardens.blogspot.com/2010/12/wonderful-grootendorsts.html

I grew Therese Bugnet, Blanc Double de Coubert, as well as it's sport, SDPC, in zone 9, alkili soil CA, with beautiful results, in partial shade, I might add. All three are beautiful and rewarding to grow. If you like Linda Campbell, you might look at Ralph Moore's yellow rugosa, Topaz Jewell. It got about 3-4 feet tall for me, very thorny, lovely soft yellow flowers, almost the same color as Sun Flare, maybe a bit softer color, almost always in bloom. Blanc and Souvenir do have to be deadheaded, they famously DON'T self clean. You have mail.

As long as this includes hybrid Rugosas my very favorite is Robusta. There is nothing like that brilliant red with those equally brilliant yellow stamens And it blooms continuously.

Now as to shade tolerance have a clump of R. Albas growing on the North side of our house. Doing fine!

nastarana, my computer won't let me answer your email. Says there is no such address! But thanks for those words.

Between you and Jim and others on this thread, I may have to throw out all my floribundas so that I can plant all those marvelous rugosas. LOL

Thanks for all the input everybody.

Kate

Dublinbay,
I'm late to the party, as usual! I hope you don't mind some late input. I'm 30 minutes north of Denver and have 7.9 ph clay soil. It's more like concrete than playdough. I have 2 red and 1 pink Groot and 1 Hansa. The Groots were planted about 4 years ago and have topped out around 3 feet here. The pink gets chlorotic by mid summer so I fertilize with Mile hi rose food (a local concoction sold in this area) once a month and a good dose of horse manure that seems to balance the ph. Hansa was planted 2 years ago, no yellowing leaves yet. I think once the plant has used up the amendments in the planting hole and stretch out to look for nutrients they find there isn't much and get chlorotic. I don't know your ph, but it sounds like it's fine. I love these wild and wooly roses! They need virtually no maintenance above ground and I'm willing to feed them. Plant a few and see how you like them before you tear out too many others. They are incredibly thorny and not to everyone's taste.
Barb