Please be aware that while potting soil looks rich and dark, it is actually a mix formulated for light weight, excellent drainage, and consistent results in a nursery. It lacks the wonderful things real garden soil brings to your plant: a complex soil biology and the fertility that comes with that biology. Unfortunately, garden soil -- even good garden soil -- does not perform well in a pot. I took a soils class last year and learned that potting soil is actually meant for temporary use -- a few months or a year or two -- not for long term use.

So since you are keeping your roses permanently in pots (as many of us do), you have to compensate for this. You can add a little of the beneficial biology by adding some compost, if you have some available to you. You can fertilize on a regular basis. And yes, you can change the soil in the pot from time to time. In fact you will have to. You will find over time that the soil level (and plant) slowly sink lower and lower. You will also want to put your pots either in saucers or up on trivets. Otherwise the potting soil that washes out bit by bit will stain your patio.

I myself have root pruned some of my container grown roses but only in concert with pruning back the top. You have to keep the two in balance.

Good luck with your new patio garden!

Here is a link that might be useful: Article about planting mixes

I, too, am gardening entirely in pots, as I live in an apartment with a long balcony. I'm really just learning, so there's a lot I can't tell you, but I make a point of reading everything on the forum that pertains to the subject - for instance, the reply you just had about soils. That one is something I've been really wanting to know about, and I will add it to my "clippings" file.
A few things I can tell you, things that I have had to do: I put a good layer of gravel in the saucers that the pots are on. This helps to keep them from having wet feet. I also have a plastic trivet with wheels that I can put a pot onto when I need to move it (I find that I need to move them around from time to time, as the sunlight shifts with the seasons on my balcony. Eventually I want to get some heavier-duty trivets on wheels, one for each pot, as I know that when they get bigger and have to go into bigger pots, I won't be able to lift them.
That's pretty much all I can add at this point, except to say that there are some pluses to having them in pots - for instance, I can go out and give them a looking-over (for possible Bad Things) very easily, while having a second cup of coffee. A down side is that I can't order any of the bigger-growing roses or the climbers. But that still leaves a lot of gorgeous smaller roses!!!
Laura

Thanks Rosefolly and Organic Tosca,

My roses are currently in large plastic pots I think in the range of 18" and 24" pots right now which comes with the saucer/trivet. They are potted in the container mix which consists of compost/peat/perlite. I was thinking of adding pine bark mulch as per the mixes found in the container forum to increase air circulation in the soil. Fertilizing-wise - my plans are to use alfalfa mix, and fish emulsion every couple of weeks or so. Maybe dig in some of my own compost every now and then.

The roses that i brought along with me though are not really the small ones, albas, bourbon and climbers and a Benjamin Britton. However, I was delighte to hear on the "Awakening" thread Paul Zimmerman did say that it should be fine in a very large pot. Assuming that i keep the soil healthy, fertilize, and water water water of course. I'm gonna try it anyway b/c the roses I tend to be partial to are the larger ones.

My main question though is that in the container forum they were talking about hardier shrubs I think and were talking about root-pruning the large thick roots to promote growth of the fine feeder roots. But I'm just thinking that the rose roots are pretty small to begin with I'm just wondering if that is really required? or is it that for roses anyway you just reduce the size of the rootball to balance with the top growth 2-1?

Thanks, Karen.

You can get big pots that come with saucers and trivets? I'm thrilled! I have to go out and look for those (though not till after Christmas and maybe not till Spring). Thanks! Laura

I don't know what the "right" answer is, but I have had a climbing Crimson Glory and 2 Nastarana roses in large thermolite pots for at least 10 years. I root prune (leave about 2/3 of the size it started with) every few years, and also trim down the canes at the same time. I change out the soil while I am doing that and use potting soil from the garden center. I top dress with organics like coffee grounds (almost daily!), and occasionally throw in a small amount of 10-10-10 for good measure.

I dislike peat moss for a lot of reasons, so this year I've been experimenting with a mix of 2/3's composted cottor burs (the bagged 'Back to Earth' brand) & 1/3 composted cow manure (the bagged 'Kow Power' brand). And every other week when watering that container I add a very small amount of liquid MiracleGrow fertilizer. So far it's worked great, but time will tell.

Randy

I've had a climber (Brightside Cream)in a pot for a year, but I do hope to get it planted soon. I've been battling a noxious weed in the area I want to plant it, and wanted to make sure it's gone. Brightside Cream was looking a bit under the weather recently. I put some Mills Magic Mix on top of the pot and you should see how healthy it looks now.

Sandy

Up north I kept tender teas and chinas in large pots for a number of years and I'm doing the same here. In Wisconsin I used a mix that a local nursery used for their plants and sold in hobby bags to the public. Here I am using a commercial mix called Jungle Growth and I am pleased with the results. Every couple of years I remove the mix surrounding the root ball and add fresh mix but I don't root prune. I want to disturb the rootball as little as possible.

Thanks everyone!

Ok, so i think the consensus is that the mix should be changed out every few years. I'll root prune only when necessary.

Tenor_peggy, I think I was thinking along the same lines as you. ie I wasn't sure that i wanted to disturb the rootball. I thought maybe it might set them back but I guess if it's all done at the dormant stage it'll be like recieving bare-roots from Pickering or something.

Well, I suppose I'll be experimenting a bit.

Karen.

There is a great long running thread in the Container forum authored by tapla about what kind of mix is best for long-term container planting.
Drainage is very important. I tried "self-watering" pots with the saucer attached and don't like them.

I put my starter roses in the ground recently because of holiday travel but will be moving them back to containers after reading in this forum about how they benefit from a year in a pot. But then they have to be planted. I can't stay home forever and can't trust anyone to water them.

Thanks naplesgardener,

I've been reading that thread - well gotta go back and continue reading b/c it's so long. But that's where i first thought about my mix and maybe that it wasn't quite right after all and wanted more specific info on rose culture so I thought I'd post here. I think the root-pruning might be more limited for roses is my thought as opposed to rhodies etc. Just my guess.

I really recommend others to read that thread as well if you have the time and inclination to read all those posts. It is quite fascinating.

Karen.

I agree the Container forum is a great sorce of information about growing plants of all kinds in containers. As I have to grow the majority of my roses in containers I read it quite often.

Tenor_peggy - Great idea to just remove the soil around the root ball and leaving the rose in place. I have had to repot one large rose and I really worried about damaging the root ball. just removing the dirt seems like a better idea.

IMO the secret to having successful roses in pots is to fertilize weekly! I read a long time ago that when any plant lives in a pot, some of the nutrients are leached out of the drainage holes every time it is watered. Over time, without repleneshing, the soil will have very little plant nutrition. Most of my potted roses have done better in the pots than they did in ground. That is why I potted them, to give them some TLC. I dose them with alfalfa tea whenever I feed my other roses as well as the weekly rose fertilizer (Miracle Gro for roses). All this applies to the growing season, not wintertime. Good luck!

I am 100% in containers. This is a great thread -- great suggestions. Per my favorite local nursery, every couple years, I literally tamp out my larger potted beasts and prune the roots by about 1/3. It seems to help them with vigor.

I use a combo of a commercial potting mix (whatever is on sale), usually like Miracle Gro + a local nursery's "rose blend" which is lovely: is has green shale, and sand, and other lovelies the roses seem to just adore. Its a heavier mix, so mixed with a lighter mix about 50/50 - its perfect. Its John Droomgole's Natural Gardener mix).

I use Milorgamite (sp?) every 6 weeks, and supplement with a top dressing a couple times a year with manure or other organic lovely. I use liquid fish emulsion about every 3 weeks.

And water water water. I also prune pretty heavily in the spring - to keep things in check.

Best thing about all these containers, is I can move (most of them) as the sun moves its position.

I have had good luck in pots, my biggest problem has been over watering (oh oh)....with not proper drainage. I killed 3 roses this summer figuring its so hot...they of course need a drink. They didn't.

Patty

Because my roses grow year round I fertilize weekly weakly. ;-) I go up north for 2 months during the summer and before I leave I cut them back severely (I'm talking about teas and chinas here!) and sprinkle a slow release fertilizer and scratch it into the mix. In the summer it rains here daily (but if we go a few days without rain my neighbor waters them for me) and by the time I return in August the roses are almost as big as they were when I left! :-)

Peggy, how big do your teas and chinas get in your pots before you cut them back? Because of this thread, I'm ordering a few climbers to grow in big pots as pillars, namely Aloha, Purezza, SdlM CL, Cornelia, Mme Abel Chatenay Climbing, and a couple of others I can't remember. I have room for pots but not much more ground.

Sherry

Blackcatgirl - how big are your pots? I'm asking because I have to move mine around too, and I am always looking for tips on making that task easier on my back, etc.
Laura

All this input is wonderful. I have a few spots on the north side of my foundation where I have planted camellias because that side of the house is in full sun half the year and full shade the other half. What has happened though, is due to the proper spacing of the camellias (I want airflow and room for them to grow), there are some rather lonesome looking spots there. I've just decided it would be ideal to put a few potted roses in those areas when I have full sun, and can move them when it becomes shady. It'll spruce things up. There are irrigation drip tubes there, so if I'm not around, they can be automatically watered.

I was wondering about the self-watering pots. Based on naplesgardener's opinion about them, I won't waste my money.

Sandy

Almost all my roses are in pots. Quite a few are 7 or 8 years old. They're doing surprisingly well.

You've gotten very good advice about the soil, drainage and feeding. I start out with big box store potting mix but I add organic stuff to it throughout the year. Add more soil if it gets low. I also mulch the tops.

You'll need to pay attention to your new pots the first year especially, to see what's working, in your particular situation.

Mine need lots of water during our hot summers here, twice a day if the sun is intense, to cool them off I hose the whole plant down and have found my roses are healthier for it. Don't forget in the winter, even though it's cold, a pot can dry out a lot quicker than you might think.

I have potted up, but not root pruned yet. I may have to do a few of mine if I don't get ahold of some bigger pots and more dirt or get them in the ground this year, you can tell when they start looking a little strained.

As for moving them, the best thing I have found is a hand cart. You know a 2 wheel cart, some people call them a dolly. No lifting, you just slide the plant onto the rack or shelf or whatever you call it, tip it back and wheel it where ever you want to go and slip it off.

Good luck.
Donna

One clarification on root pruning- I mainly do it when I find encircling roots, and commonly it does not involve the entire root ball. A big rose will get "pot bound", similar to what you see in some nursery shrubs that have been in a pot a long time. Here's my Crimson Glory the season after some trimming.
{{gwi:237967}}

Paula, thank you for the information on mixes.

Carla

My pots vary -- up to 24" -- those big ones, I tump them over and kinda roll them on my dolly and heave it to the new location. Or call my brother, who loves 'heavy labor'.

During the hot hot days of summer, I may water daily, not to soak the roots, but to cool down the container and plant. When its 100 out there, the water evaporates rapidly enough that I don't worry about disease.

Agreed on watching that first year in the pot -- you have to be careful to learn how the pot drains - some of mine the water goes straight through...others really hold the moisture.

Also -- don't do what I did one hot July Saturday this summer: I had my big 30 gallon trash can filled up with a concoction of fish emulsion, MaxiGro seaweed, and some Miracle Gro - all at about half strength - for bucketing out to all the roses (and the tomatoes too)....I left the trash can out in the garden for a couple days...and 3 days later noticed an odor. I was wondering what it might be?? and absentminded grabbed the trash can to return it to its spot and found the source of the odor. It was a possum who got into the trash can, investigating the fishy odor, got stuck and I guess toasted in the heat. After I did "self cpr" I felt really really sorry for the little sucker.

Now, I rinse out the trash can immediately (pour the remnants over the plants)....smell it...and place it upside down next to the greenhouse.

EEk.

{{gwi:218245}}
Hwy. 290 Pink Buttons (in my favorite container, its an antique pot I found at a worksite), next to Archduke Charles. Some of my containers.

Sherry, by June my roses will be about 3/4 feet tall. I suppose because I prune them like HTs they don't get real big (growing them in pots may keep them smaller than those grown in the ground too). :-)

Ditto -- I prune a little bit too heavy - to keep them to 3-4 ft tall. And am learning to really learn about my china's and teas before purchasing (yeah right). The ones that are totally out of control tend to get relocated to my brother's house. Freeing up space for another new rose!

Chinas are great in pots.

Really enjoying this thread. I have just 3 roses in pots-- Sweet Chariot, Marie Pavie, and Tamora & just moved them up to bigger pots. This was urgent in the case of Sweet CHariot b/c I thot 'MINI" meant small plant and put TWO in one pot, oops. When they slowed down growth & didn't bloom well this year I knew I'd better move them up. After 2 years of giving mostly fish emulsion & compost tea, I stepped up the feeding this year. I applied Rose-Tone, compost, worm castings, and even some Osmocote in addition to liquids--compost tea, Mills Magic liquid. Definitely was influenced by what I've read in this forum. I have noticed that the big own-roots from ARE have a lot of Osmocote mixed into the potting mix-- I only scratch it into the top for fear of overdosing. The only potted rose I've ever lost was Julia Child, which was my youngest rose at the time and in the smallest container. I think I watered it to death. OTOH it went downhill so fast that it may not have been the best plant, either.. I am out of space in the ground, was hesitant to try any more roses in pots, but all this how-to is encouraging. Now let me make a list, I must have at least 3 containers available...!!!

This has been a very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it Karen.

I grew roses in pots for the first time this year with very mixed results. I think my two downfalls were under feeding and over watering. I nearly lost my Marie Pavie in a pot and maybe someone here could answer a question. We talked about this on the Rose Forum a while back but I didn't clarify well. Someone suggested that my watering habits were a problem and I think that's true. I watered my pots basically every day hence causing the roots to not grow down looking for water. That by hand watering a bit every day instead of watering deeply a couple of times a week I forced the roots to stay shallow.

So how do you all water your containers? My worry was that my containers seemed dry a lot during the summer and I was afraid they would get cooked without a daily dose of moisture.

Thank you.

Kate

Most potting mixes are peat based. When that dries out, it is a bear to rewet. It doesn't want to soak up water, and it shrinks away from the pot sides, making a channel for the water to just run through the pot. So most people who successfully use it are adjusting their watering schedule for it - a lot of relatively small amounts of water to keep it damp. If it does dry out, about the only way to really get it back in shape is to either dunk the whole pot in a bucket, or put a saucer underneath so the water doesn't just instantly drain out. Then the pot sits in the saucer for a few days until the water seeps upwards. Given that my climate usually gets enough rainfall even for pots, and I've never been good at watering, I avoid potting mix for this reason. I've also heard the best local nursery has been phasing it out because of the amount of labor involved in keeping the peat continually moist.

Okay then. Thank you mad_gallica. Based on that information I'm just sitting here trying to think how I can re use some of my potting soil that I have roses currently potted in. That is to say if I took the roses out, added something and re potted them could it be saved? Or should I just start over again with a potting mix that is virtually peat-free.

Kate

Kate -
I think that I have been doing the same thing (underfeeding and overwatering). My oldest ones are not quite a year old, so it's a little hard to really assess the situation. I have had a few gnats, and I've read here that that is a sign of too much water, so I've backed off a bit, and I also ran a dinner fork through the soil around the pot edges (worried about damaging new little roots - four of my seven are new this Fall, the others I got last Spring). Both things seem to have definitely helped. Haven't seen any more gnats, and the plants are definitely looking happy.
I did worry a lot in the summer (Sacramento heat, and my balcony faces west). But I think I've just settled in to a Do They Need It Now frame of mind, and bearing in mind that some will need water more than others.
I do have a water gauge, but have been afraid to use it - the spike seems so big and kind of lethal. I worry about damaging fragile little roots.
Not much help from me, I guess, but shared concerns.
Laura

Hope this doesn't sound dumb, but I was thinking what if when planting the rose in the pot I put in a couple of pieces of PVC pipe drilled with some holes along the length of it that stuck up slightly above the soil level and didn't go all the way to the bottom. Then when I water I'd make sure water went down the pipe to put water all through the soil. Does anyone think this would be a benefit or harmful or just a waste of time?

From reading the container forum there's also the problem of a reservoir of water like a bubble (there's a technical term that I forget - Ah ha, I found the post - it's called "perched water table". See the link below.) developing in the lower part of the pot that causes roots to rot. They talk there a lot about what can be done to minimize or eliminate the inevitability of this bubble.

Here's another link called "Fertilizer Program - Containerized Plants". Both links are very educational, but I also found them to be more information than I could absorb. Personally, I like this thread better because you all are mostly saying that in your experience growing roses in pots works well. Read the posts when your brain is fresh. Or maybe my problem is that my brain will never be fresh again :))
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg1020215928898.html?116

Also, on the container forum they are also very negative on "organic" container growing. They say the plants will starve to death basically due the lack of microorganisms since these are pots and not soil in the ground. (They also do a lot of "soilless" container growing.) Without microorganisms organic feeding doesn't work. They use liquid ferts and timed release stuff.

How does this info relate to all of your "hands-on" experience in your gardens? When I was reading these container forum posts a while back, it was very discouraging, because I didn't know anyone who was growing roses in pots. I value your experience more than a lot techno-babble. (Not that I'm against knowledge - I'm just a 58 yr old lady who's not a soil scientist and sometimes this stuff just does not compute.)

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: Container Soils - Water Movement & Retention IV

Sherry & friends, I don't trust moisture meters. I will stick a finger in to check top 3"; if it's moist I wait. The other thing I do with all container plants is to lift the container; if a container has dried out it's MUCH lighter. Once you get above 20" diameter this requires lifting one side with both hands. When I DO water I watch and listen to make sure I've watered sufficiently for water to run out the bottom. I've not encountered a problem with container soil drying out completely, but then I don't use a mix that has a lot of peat. To most commercial mixes I add more perlite and often shredded bark for larger containers. I see no reason why organic fertilizers won't work in pots but if the plant is obviously hungry a quick shot of 20/20/20 or Miracle Gro will obviously work faster. To help microorganisms survive I use light-colored pots and provide some afternoon shade, and try to avoid too much heat conduction from the patio (e.g. trivets or pot feet). My sister in Seattle grows a wide variety of vegetables & even trees! on her houseboat. She occ. adds some real dirt to top up the pots but never changes the soil. She's inspired me to grow more in containers! With my established roses I actually work the amendments into the soil with a hand fork; I'm convinced they act much faster when they're worked in.

Thank you, Barbara, that's exactly the input I was hoping for. Very helpful. There are also products like Turf Pro (liquid) that contain microorganisms that can be added with ferts. I hadn't thought about the heat being detrimental to them. Does anyone know at what temp they die?

Sherry

Barbara - Thanks for the tip about light-colored pots and heat-conduction from the patio. During a really hot spell here, one of my little roses suddenly drooped dramatically at the necks supporting the blooms. I knew it didn't need water, so all I could think of doing was to move it into the shade for awhile. The next day it was fine. A relative here told me that because I use terra cotta pots, the soil inside heats up. I always thought terra cotta was good for use in a hot country because the air can pass through it. What is your opinion on that? I think I'll carry on with what I have and just move them when necessary. Next time I get pots, I'll be sure to get light-colored ones. Do you think having my pots up on gravel in the saucers will help with the heat-conduction? Think I'll look for trivets...
Regarding fertilizers, etc.: I've used Miracle-Gro from time to time, but what my roses seem to really love is alfalfa meal - I'm sold on that!
Laura

... "a relative here told me that because I use terra cotta pots, the soil inside heats up..."

I could not disagree more with your relative. No scientific evidence here, just real life experience with terra cotta pots vs other materials. Just one of the many reasons I prefer terra cotta.

Randy

Tosca, terracotta is a classic choice, I'm with Randy on that. I use a lightweight stuff which looks like concrete from a distance but actually seems to be some kind of foam; a bit pricey but makes it easier to move the pots. As for the gravel, our greenhouse has a gravel floor and the purpose is to store heat. A thin layer would be OK. I look for pots that have straight up and down sides rather than sharply tapering for max root room, and I look for pots that are nice and smooth on the inside so the plant will slide right out when the time comes.

Randy and Barbara -
THANK YOU! I won't start an argument with my relative, but I will just quietly continue with my lovely terra cotta. And, Barbara, thanks for the info on the foam "concrete" pots, also the straight up/down bit - I will need to look for those later on, when my little ones get a bit bigger, because Wonder Woman I am not...
Laura

Well, I did some rose shopping and potted up 3 of them today. I got these "pots" at Lowe's for $6.99. They're really plastic storage containers without holes, so I drilled 8 holes in them. My local dirt, mulch & rock supplier has what they call "potting soil", a combination of black dirt (ours is pretty sandy), chopped pine bark and compost. I added perlite, some starter organic 4-3-3 fert with microorganisms that Lowe's carries, alfalfa pellets and milorganite with ground pine bark (soil conditioner) for mulch.

{{gwi:328627}}

I chose Aloha because it's a short climber, Fellenberg because it's supposed to be good as a pillar, and Cornelia for the same reason. Ran out of alfalfa so I'll have to do Archduke Charles tomorrow. In March I have Mme Abel Chateney CL, Walferdange and Duchesse d'Albe coming from Ashdown which I plan to put in the other pots - guess I need another pot. This side of the house gets east sun all day until 4:00 - 4:30 so I think it will be ideal.

I had planned to put them next to the house but until we get gutters installed I'll leave them where they are. On the fence I have Chromatella and Reve d'Or babies and small roses in between. So I think the pots could stay where they are without crowding - at least for long while.

Sherry

I wish you were back on here, Sherry. You are such a great writer. I know losing a beloved husband is so hard. I hope you are still growing roses.