Rose de Rescht will be vigorous and healthy, even spreading like a gallica or rugosa, but it is not purple. The color is a deep magenta. I like it very much, but don't think it is the color you want.

I don't know the other roses you mentioned.

Rosefolly

rosefolly, I'm not averse to magenta. I'm mainly looking for a color that's darker than deep pink but am not particular about the exact tone, as long as it's not a pure red.

Ingrid

I'd go definitely to 'Rose de Rescht'. This rose has such a delightful scent, compact growth and reliable rebloom that it deserve a place in almost every garden.
The color here is a bright cerise-magenta, slightly purplish in cooler months, especially good to live up some pale tones of blush or pink.

Highly recommended :o)

Have you considered Reine des Violettes? I'm not sure about your growing conditions there. Also, what about Black Prince, Souvenir du Dr. Jamain, Rose du Roi a Fleures Pourpes.

Mme. Norbert Levavasseur is your typical 'red' polyantha. In other words, normal people would probably call it dark pink. I've had chlorosis problems with it. It's the first rose I grew that did that, and has been the guinea pig for the solutions ever since.

News was such a failure I don't even remember what the flowers looked like.

Rose de Rescht is popular enough you should be able to get very local and precise information about it.

What is the size range you would consider? Also, what growth habit are you looking for?

Do you have a lot of room? Rose de Rescht gets broad. It's tough as nails. I would call it red though.
Zalud House is a rose I love, but not cerise, deffinately pink.
I think you might be happy with the poly. I've observed polys blooming well in the heat, which i know is important to you.
Here's another idea. Is Lady Ann Kidwell available? It would be perfect. It's a poly/tea with beautiful form and color. I would call it wine or cerise. It is a standout in my garden.

Well, Blow me down, Ingrid, I had forgotten about News. This might just be the purple I have been looking for. Bred by Bill Le Grice, also responsible for the wonderful Pearl Drift, Etoile de Holland, Amberlight, the gorgeous Dusky Maiden (used by David Austin in his breeding programme) and Dairy Maid. Although News is not single, it is a lovely rose and, like many of LeGrices creations, combines unusual colours with toughness and a certain amount of resistance to drought (he was an East Anglian breeder, local to me). Was it you, Ingrid, who raved about Mr.Bluebird? Well News is not dismiliar, just bigger. At any rate, thanks for jogging my memory, I will certainly be getting this rose.
Rose de Rescht: well it IS a good rose but not, I think, quite what you are looking for. I would say that News was worth a punt in your hot and dry garden, Ingrid and many thanks for the reminder.

Yesterday would be good where you are, and so would Rose De Rescht.

Just to say a word about 'Lady Anne Kidwell'.
It's just lovely.
But definitely -in my experience- not a rose for a hot, dry climate.

there is a really good polyantha from Kim Rupert, sadly unavailable here. I think it is called just Purple Poly Seedling?

Ingrid, I bought Sibelius, the Lens hybrid musk, from Cliff at Eurodesert thinking it would be good here as hm's here thrive. It is a cross between Mr. Bluebird and Violet Hood. It is sitting in a pot, blackspotting its little heart out.

Would you like it? If so, email me and I'll send it to you. It is a pretty thing, but I don't think it likes it here... there's a nice pic of it from Cliff on HMF; I should have known better as it's so healthy planted in his conditions.

Gean

If you really want purple, take a look at 'International Herald Tribune,' a Harkness "Floribunda" that might ought have been called a Polyantha.

It hates pruning, and if pruned regularly, or deadheaded hard, it will be a stiffly-upright 2 ft. or so.
But if deadheaded only by bloom removal, and not for the most part pruned, it can make the better part of 4 ft.

It's very upright, disease-free in CA, and the cupped, purple, semi-double blooms are produced constantly through the calendar year.

Jeri

What about Sweet Chariot?

Also, Cliff offers a lot of polys, maybe go through his catalog, and if you like something, ask him? He certainly lives in a hot and dry climate:-)

Masha

Ingrid, how about tea Francis Dubreuil? I have recently got it from Chamblees and it had several blooms on it. The color should be very dark red but actually looked more purple than I expected which is good. So beautiful and amazing fragrance ( to my nose). It should stay short - about 3-4 feet. I used it instead of Indigo in my front yard bed. Another option was Austin dark red "The Prince" but since Austins as Portlands don't do well here I decided not to risk.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:326464}}

'News' is an excellent medium sized rose, and surprisingly healthy for something of its class/era. It can be quite the bloom machine. Cons? I would prefer more foliage to fill out its profile, but few Floribundas are particularly blessed with an abundance of foliage. Size: to about 4 feet in a forgiving climate.

'International Herald Tribune', as Jeri suggested, ought to be superb for you. It is a fairly bright, modern cerise-purple, but cannot be beat in terms of volume of bloom, attractive shrub habit and disease resistance. 2.5 X 2.5 feet, + or -

'Rose de Rescht' is an excellent Portland Damask in many, but not all climates. It can Blackspot badly in regions where disease pressure is strong, and is known to Rust in some parts of Cali. If it likes your climate, it can be exquisite, especially for its rich Damask perfume. Expect maybe three crops of bloom per year with significant pauses between. After all, its remontancy did not come from the "everblooming" China-based pedigree that our moderns got their excellent repeat from. To six feet tall in time, but offers better rebloom and larger flowers if sheared heavily every other year or so.

I would consider 'Reine des Violettes' as a candidate as well. It can be exceptionally beautiful, but moody; in hot weather it can present as a purplish pink rather than a true purple, and is known for occasional chlorosis. (easily remedied with Iron Chelate, of course) Such shortcomings aside, it is possibly the best of the Hybrid Perpetuals, and comes closest to being genuinely "perpetual" of all its clan. Can be grown as a "climber" in a warm climate. Excellent candidate for pegging, which increases bloom production dramatically.

I would not recommend any of the Austin purple/lavenders, one possible exception being 'William Shakespeare 2000', all of them have been poor performers for me. Ill behaved growth habits requiring shaping and manicuring, very poor disease resistance in general, often coupled with mediocre-to-poor repeat seem to be the hallmark of many of the red-purple Austins. Too bad, as many have wonderful blooms. 'The Prince' can be exquisite, if it weren't for the truly abysmal shrub the blooms inhabit.

Paul B.

Paul, the ONLY red-range Austin that was "worth it" here was and is 'Prospero.'

As a child of Chateau de Clos Vougeot, it should be riddled with mildew here, but it ain't.
As long as we don't go pruning on it -- treat it in fact like a small China -- it's continuous-blooming and free of disease.

We find that it is happy as a clam on its own roots, too.

I don't know if it could handle your colder winters -- but it's great here near the coast, where a brief freeze is big news.

On the minus side, for Ingrid's hot conditions, the blooms fry instantly in hot, dry, santa ana wind conditions. But other than that, it's a workhorse for us.

Jeri

I can highly recommend Verdun, also. And I see Vintage has it available now. It's not the color that Vintage's photo shows, however. On HMF, it's the color of the photo submitted by Mashamcl.

Kathy

bloody hell, Jeri, you are confusing me now. I know this rose (IHT) well and you are quite right, it would probably be wonderful for Ingrid and probably me. Harkness roses often have some interesting genetics and I think this one has R.californica, maybe, in its breeding (or maybe R.carolina? One of those US ones anyway. It is a good rose though and goes on forever. I really, really like Harkness roses, in fact, I think they are by far the most innovative breeders in the UK today, even though many are modern floribundas.

Sorry Campanula

Yes. Jack Harkness really did some great things. (And that WAS R. californica you're thinking of.)
Here in CA, Tom Carruth took off from IHT to create a whole line of very nice purple roses.
But to be honest, as much as I liked them, I didn't find any of them to have (for ME) the charm of IHT.

Jeri

Thank you all SO much for your kind responses. I was overwhelmed that so many people responded, and with such valuable advice. With your help I've now narrowed the choices down to two, News and Verdun, and the latter would not have occurred to me without your input.

I've seen Rose de Rescht and considered it, but frankly it doesn't really speak to me. Since it seems to get rather broad I also might not have enough space. I'd also prefer a more constant bloomer.

Gean, thank you so much for your kind offer. I looked at Sibelius and, although it's a pretty rose, it looks a bit too much like Mr. Bluebird, which is already planted near its spot. I had Violet Hood, one of Sibelius' parents planted in the same area, and the blooms were so small and unattractive that I did away with it without any regret.

Jeri, thanks to your enabling about two years ago I already have two specimens of IHT. I adore the color and flowers in general, but it also is probably much more spectactular in your climate. In the summer it sulks and rarely blooms and the bush is stiff and upright even though I've never pruned it. I'm not about to get rid of it though.

I've had Yesterday and Sweet Chariot in the past and neither did well in the heat. This spot gets the full brunt of the hot afternoon sun. I'm convinced that Reine de Violettes, a superb rose, wouldn't last one summer here. Lady Ann Kidwell, which is loved by many, and which I have seen in person, looks odd to me with the ribbon-like conformation of its petals. It was also about 7 feet tall in my rose friend's garden. Francis Dubreuil unfortunately is not available at Vintage right now.

I've grown News before and love everything about the flowers. Even the spare leaves don't really deter me, but I seem to remember that it didn't bloom all that frequently. The question is also whether it really would hold up to the sun here. Verdun, a rose that I hadn't considered, really appeals to me, especially in Masha's pictures on HMFR. I gather it's also a larger rose but perhaps it could be pruned to size somewhat. Right now, I'm vacillating between the two and wish there were some deciding factor that would sway me in one direction or the other. The smaller size of News would be good for that spot but Verdun might be tougher in that location.

Thanks again for your heart-warming support. It was so wonderful to hear from people I respect and who really know their roses. Suzy, I'm so glad I reminded you about News; I hope it does splendidly in your garden.

Ingrid

I know that Cliff grows a mean Verdun, because I see him exhibit sprays of it at rose shows occasionally. His Morongo Valley garden has got to be hotter and dryer than yours. And he's no spray, also.

On the other hand, if you already have 2 Int'l Herald Tribunes, I would pass on News -- it's too similar, and IHT is probably a better rose. Just look at the parentage of both of them -- very similar -- both heavily dependent on Lilac Charm and R. Californica. Just my 2 cents.

Kathy

Ingrid, I had Rose de Rescht - sort of. In fact, you could say that it was my first Old Rose. I made a deal with a woman friend who did a lot of gardening at my old apartment house. I said if she would like to put it in one of her gardens and care for it, I would buy it, although we worked together on the choice of rose - I told her she had final say, since she was the one who was going to be dealing with it. I have to admit that I never loved it, although just having an Old Rose was a big thrill for me. I thought the blooms were exquisite, and the bush was very well-clothed with leaves. I think, looking back, that it was the growth habit of the bush that I didn't like. And it suckered, not madly, but clear outside of the garden, about 1-2 yards away. Contrary to what everyone says, I could hardly smell it at all (and I am known for my overactive nose). I mentioned it on this forum later on (after I had left that apartment complex) and it was suggested that perhaps it was not RdR at all, but had been mislabeled. On the plus side, it did very well here in nearly all-day sun in Sacramento. In color, it was a deep rose, verging on purple tones as the bloom aged. I don't remember ever seeing those blooms crisped, as my own roses do.

Laura

I had an epiphany as I was walking around the garden earlier today. I have a new Sophy's Rose in front of the house which has had several blooms. It's a nice looking rose but to me not overwhelmingly beautiful. On the other hand, I realized that the color would go well in the back, and I've seen this rose in August in a very hot public garden and it was blooming its head off. So, that solves the problem we've been discussing on this thread, and I hope this rose turns out to be a good choice. We've already moved Sophy's rose to its new home and I've put a new band of Potter and Moore that I recently acquired in Sophy's former spot. It's one of the old Austins on its own roots and seems to be a very pretty rose.

Ingrid

'Verdun' is a great Poly, often hiding its foliage under an ocean of hot magenta bloom. However, my plant, left unpruned for five years, has not exceeded 20" tall. Just so's ya know.