Kitsap is a long and varied county on the west side of Puget Sound so it is going to depend on where in the county you are. It is all solid Zone 8 though. Some parts are very wet and some are dryer. Chinas do fine in my zone 7 gardens so those will be good. I know some people South of Seattle do ok with Teas but the long chilly springs are not necessarily the best for them here. They like heat. You can only try. I am not sure teas look their best here as their lusty colors are most suitable in my mind to the hotter climes. There are so many other roses that do magnificantly well here-even Noisettes-that you just adjust. I am familiar with north Alabama-you are in for a culture shock but it is really great here. I love it.

patricia

Lucretia,
thanks so much for the encouragement. My brain says it will be a great move, my heart bawls over WRS and the other teas that are just now growing into maturity. Leaving a garden that bears blood, sweat and tears always is problematic, I suppose.

You helped a lot, thank you. Gean

Patricia,
You hit on the question that I have, where in the county is best for gardening.

I've looked at a rain shadow map, but really need someone just to recommend some areas to look at for a house. We're thinking about the central Kitsap/Silverdale areas. I think that the soil in Poulsbo must be sandy, but have also heard other areas are clay. I have read the water in Silverdale is fabulous, but am not sure about other places in the county. If you're familiar with the county, can you recommend a place to look for a house, with an eye towards the best in terms for a garden, soil and water wise?

Only another gardener would think that soil and water are the best parameters to search for a house. MLS certainly doesn't tell me anything about that!!

Gean

There was a collection of tea roses at a Seattle property for some years. Spring here is February to July. Summer starts to drift away in September, fall turns wintery when shut down abruptly by November - the stormiest month of the year. But "everblooming" hybrid roses are often seen still in bloom at Christmas.

Main differences between other parts of country and here are lack of much blazing heat and lack of summer rain, the latter occurrence shared with most of western half of country. A late friend that came out here from Illinois, made a garden featuring roses etc. on a sandy site in Seattle could not believe how much watering he had to do in summer.

Gean,
We just got our boat moved to Florence and DH promised to have the bathroom working this year. IF you're still around in a month or two, let's go try slugburgers over in Mississippi.

You are going where there are NO fireants. That's something that can't be said about any of Alabama.
And then there's Rose Rosette. you'll be able to grow big mature roses without fear of loss at random.

Then there's this thing that happens to roses in the Northwest. The first bloom is unbelievably great. You might have seen some of the potential for large petals in the late fall when the roses don't rush to make blooms fast. Out there spring bloom makes huge blooms and it's not hot so they last.

Ann

Thank you for telling me about the tea roses in Seattle; I have a Gilbert Nabonnand that a forum friend gave me that I am planning to take as well as cuttings from some of mine. I'm going to try growing teas, anyway, but don't have much hope that they'll thrive.

I am also leery of buying a house on sandy soil just for the reason you mention, having seen a rainfall chart for the area and seeing how little it rains during the summer.

Gean

Ann,

Thanks for the encouragement about roses there. I know my poor teas here are nothing compared to What's-Out-There, but they're mine and I love them anyway.

I'm thinking we'll be gone before Feb, but it depends on how fast my garden, I mean my house, sells. I'd be so happy to meet you.

Ann, what book can I look at that will tell me about the soils in Kitsap County? in language I will understand? I'll contact the county extension office; maybe they can give me some information too. I'm contacting the Master Gardeners in the area also.

I'd take a shovel and just dig before I buy, but I expect it will be pouring down buckets the week we're there in early December to look for a house.

One rose I am planning to take with me is the Old Grey Cemetery Noisette; it has been so healthy for me in its first year and I love the blooms.

Gean

I used to live in the Auburn area which is in south King county just east of Federal Way. My biggest problem was with diseases such as mildew, blackspot, and rust. You will need to spray for them.

If you like to grow vegetables and fruits, cool weather crops do better than the warm weather ones. Those warm weather ones do well east of the Cascades like over by Wenatchee. I could grow the Gypsy hybrid bell peppers without any problem, but other nightshades like tomatoes and eggplants did not do well for me.

Delphiniums do well out there along with the Himalayan Blue Poppy, Meconopsis, if you like them. Dahlias do quite well, and so do tuberous begonias.

If you want a good gallica rose, just get Charles de Mills. I used to have one, and even though it is a once-bloomer, because the summer temperatures usually don't kick in until mid to late July, mine bloomed for about 6 weeks. So, it had some flowers coming on it for quite a while. That rose did not take a back seat to anyone.

One other little survival hint I would pass along is to keep any food in glass jars on your lowest cabinet level shelves. This is to prevent them from falling and breaking in the event of an earthquake. We had some while I was out there, and they do happen periodically. Just make sure you get the water heater strapped or otherwise secured and take any other necessary tie-down or anchoring precautions for a quake.

If you find yourself having to go to and from Tacoma, just remember that the narrows bridge is now a toll bridge. Just also be aware that traffic is a nightmare all along the I-5 corridor. I just thought I would throw in some useful information for what it is worth.

One more little thing. A trip to Victoria to see Butchart Gardens is highly recommended. You can use the ferry from Port Angeles.

hi, Bustopher,

Thanks for the warnings. I suspected the blackspot, etc. just from the weather. I grow teas and chinas no spray now in Alabama. Maybe I'll just grow rugosas and gallicas. And I've never seen a happy delphinium, so that's something to look forward to. Maybe I'll learn to love dahlias, which I presently detest.

I've read about the earthquakes; I guess they are a trade off for the tornadoes and hurricanes the south is prone to. I plan to avoid all Seattle traffic and stay in Kitsap County on the west side of the sound. It seems to be pretty rural, which is my speed. I am not a city girl.

Anne Belovich's ramblers and Victoria are things I am hoping to see. One of the local master gardeners recently did a slide presentation on her visit to Buchart Gardens; I didn't go as I thought, "Well, I guess I will go and see it for myself."

I lived and grew roses in Olympia for ten years and found them HIGHLY rewarding. You always give up something when you change where you live, but I don't think you'll feel like you lost out after a few years. All the once-bloomers did very well for me there; while they got a bit of disease, it was nothing serious: I never sprayed. If you really want to try Teas, or other roses that demand summer heat, which I suggest includes a lot of Hybrid Teas and possibly Bourbons, then site them in the hottest and sunniest place you can create. South-facing, no shade, and against a building or masonry wall is ideal.

It was actually in rainy western Washington that I began learning about dry summer gardening. I found out that roses can handle a long summer drought, with mulch and accepting that they'll stop blooming after a while; realized that spring blooming bulbs do their growing during the rainy season and go into dormancy in the summer; and I began looking for drought tolerant plants like aromatic subshrubs, butterfly bush, and lilac. Another wonderful plant in Washington is clematis: the summer blooming varieties get started right when the once-flowering roses are finishing up.

You will like it, and once your new garden gets going you won't miss your old one. Have fun!

Melissa

Lucky you, Gean, to be able to start a new garden. We have a great group of gardeners here to welcome you to the fold and I've written you an email with lots of details. Anne B. will be delighted to show you her very special garden. I moved here from Maryland and haven't for one second wanted to go back. Well, okay, there was one second. I miss the blue crabs and the beaches. Please let me know how I can help.

Best,
Sue

Melissa,
thank you for your comments; I knew you lived in Washington before moving to Italy, so I'd hoped that you would respond with your perspective.

I know gardening will be very rewarding there, and my rose education will happily expand from my comfortable southern gardening niche of teas, noisettes and chinas. I really do look forward to learning about other roses. I'll have to add south facing walls to my list of things to look for in a house. There are so many trees in that area, just finding a patch of sun in an open area is hard too. Oh, well, no fire ants, as Ann from Tn said!

Thank you, Gean

Sue, thank you for such a warm welcome and the offer of help. I'm looking forward to meeting everyone and learning bunches from your rose gardeners there. One thing I look forward to is having some people I can say the words "noisette" and "gallica" aloud to and their eyes will not glaze over. That alone is probably worth the move to me.

Thank you again, Gean

I'm using an approach similar to Melissa's--let things go dormant in the dry of summer. This summer we had a period of a couple months that was the driest ever recorded. The roses didn't get a drop to drink, and they did just fine--they are actually some of the most drought-hardy plants in the yard. Some sulked (not a lot of blooms, although there were scattered blossoms--they went a couple of months without ANY water), but as soon as the rain started they've perked right back up. We don't spray, and things do fine--you just need to find out which plants are happy in your yard. A lot depends on how you garden--if every leaf and blade of grass must be perfect and green, you might have to irrigate a fair amount and do a little spraying. There are plenty of things that will bloom once the roses slow down for the summer if you leave things dry. One thing I love about the once-bloomers is they seem to have their big show before things dry out too badly, so you don't feel like it's necessary to water them.

Lucretia, I garden no spray here in muggy Alabama and there's nothing perfect about a garden like that. I planted clover in the fescue lawn and found out the grubs will eat the fescue but leave the clover alone. Why is that? A giant green lynx spider with umpteen babies is residing in my Duchesse du Brabant. I don't think you can call me a leaf and blade perfectionist.

I am very interested in the once bloomers and hope to learn as much as I can about them. Which ones do you grow? What else do you like to grow? Thanks so much, Gean

Gean, congratulations on your future home! I have long been intrigued with the idea of living in the PNW and at one time thought we might move there ourselves. However my husband Tom dearly loves the Bay Area of California so we decided to stay put. I think you will be very happy gardening there.

Best wishes
Rosefolly

Gean,

I admit, I'm like a kid with a new box of crayons here with all the things I could never grow in Florida, so most of it is probably pretty plebian compared to the amazing gardens that most of the people have who post here. But all the spring bulbs are amazing, plus irises, hostas, peonies, heathers, lavender, pansies (planted them when we first moved in, and they've reseeded and spread--I love them!), liatris, daisies, daylilies, red hot poker, crocosmia, heather, hollyhocks, delphiniums, rhododendrons, azaleas, etc. The yard was just weeds and rocks when we moved in, and we've had to work around our drainfield and our neighbor's drainfield, which happens to be in our yard (GRRR!), so it's taking some time to figure out what we can plant where and get our foundation plants in, then we'll really get serious about filling in the beds. Our goal is to have something kind of between a cottage-garden and wildlife garden, that's easy to maintain and makes us happy to be in it. The OGRs fit so perfectly into this, and so many of them seem to be so easy to grow. My oldest ones just turned 2 years old (from bands) so I can't wait to see what they do this year.

A lot of once-bloomers in my yard. Some of them will (hopefully!) be blooming for the first time this year: Alba Maxima, Chloris, Felicite Parmentier, Great Maiden's Blush, Madame Hardy, Petite Lisette, Pompon Blanc Parfait, Konigin von Danemark, Gloire de France, Alchymist, Donau!, Veilchenblau, Bella Donna, Crested Damask, Ispahan, La Ville de Bruxelles, Leda, Belle de Crecy, Belle Doria, Belle Sans Flatterie, Boula de Nanteuil, Cardinal de Richelieu, Charles de Mills, Ellen Tofflemire, Hippolyte, James Mason, La Belle Sultane, Marianne, Mecene, Ombree Parfaite, Rosa Mundi, Tricolore de Flandre, Tuscany Superb, Great Western, Duchesse de Montebello, Bleu Magenta, Violacee, Capitaine John Ingram, and probably some others that I missed. Some are just bands that I put in this fall, others are getting to be really nice sized shrubs.

I'll probably be sorry later when things start getting crowded and the pot ghetto grows, but it sure is a lot of fun! And I won't know what I can't live without unless I try them all, right? ;-)

Hi Gean..sorry to not get back to you but We had wind today-no power here-so it goes-and more due tomorrow-every place has its issues.
I have driven through Kitsap many times but dont know the soil-I know what you mean... a gardner really understands-sounds like you have a plan in talking to the master Gardners. I have all sorts of soil types on just my 6 acres. Sand, Gravel, clay, deep duff. This past summer was unnaturally hot and even dryer than usual but the summer dry spell is somthing we look forward to. It doesnt usually pour down rain here-it drizzles so a small amount of rain goes a long way. I expect you are going to have to make your decision on the ground so to speak. It is a beautiful area. Remember when you are looking at property that the sun right now is low on the horizon but during the summer it will be over head-areas that are shaded at the moment could be in full sun. The summer days are as long as the winter nights at the moment.

patricia

Rosefolly, thank you for the kind wishes. I really hope your gophers go-fer somewhere else and leave your garden alone.

Lucretia, thank you for the list of once bloomers. I recognize many of the names from many other postings but I never thought I'd actually be seriously considering growing them. I hope I get to see your garden sometime in the future; it sounds as though it is or will be very lovely. Just my style.

Patricia, all those soil types on your six acres? It's hopeless, then to try to figure out the soils in the county. I'm used to north Alabama where you can just count on the stuff under the grass to be red clay. Sticky but predictable.

Do you get tired of the sun during the summer and go to bed before it's dark? Do you see northern lights from the more rural western areas? I would guess there are too many lights in Seattle?

Gean, a woman in the Heritage Roses Northwest rose society lives in Silverdale. She has chinas as well as most other types of roses. I live in Tacoma and have some of everything from teas to alba's and gallica's with a good mix of hybrid perpetuals thrown in.

Silverdale has slightly sandy soil as does most of the northern part of the county. Most of the area there has a great southern/ western sun exposure because of the way the land lays with a gradual hill rising towards the north. One thing I found that works well is to add clumping cat litter to help water retention. Sounds very funny to a person who lives with clay soil but one nicer thing about adding clay to our soil is you get to decide how much and still have good drainage. I only added clay to a few holes when I first started really growing roses. It works great but the other roses grow well with no clay.

As far a teas go it depends on the particular rose. Some grow great here and some do just ok. The thing that does not help the teas much is that they start to grow as soon as the days start to get longer. That causes freeze damage until the weather warms up a little.

Pretty much any David austin rose that was introduced from the date of Jude the Obscure onwards can be grown no spray here. Also all gallica's, alba's and other once bloomers will grow like gang busters without those annoying disease's on the east coast.

Lance

I should add my property runs east to west. That means that almost all of the property is in nice sunshine all of the time. The best exposure for growing teas and chinas here is western or southern. Eastern exposure is fine for the more cold hardy teas like Duchess de Brabant or Monsieur Tillier. The tea/noisette Celine Forestier does great here, even if she leafs out and gets covered in frost until she is white. She will not get as large as she could in a warmer area but mine has been as tall as six feet tall and eight feet wide.

The thing to watch out for here is tall trees on the south or southwest of the property. That is where the most likely high wind will come from which causes the tree to fall.

Lance

Lance, that is so helpful, thank you.

I checked your list of teas and noticed you have Niles Cochet. This is one I'd planned to bring with me. Have you tried others of the Cochet family?

I'd planned to try Duchesse dB as I know several grow it in as cold a zone as 5 and was happy to see you mention it. One of my favorite teas is General Gallieni as it insists on blooming and has no leaf problems. I believe it truly is a heat lover and am afraid it would not do well up there. Have you ever tried this one?

I have a lot to learn, thanks for the help.

Gean

I bought a new General Gallieni to replace one that my SO dug out and killed while I was at work. Before being killed it had reached just under five feet tall and was blooming full time. It does great here, just do not fertilize it after July 15th.

I have Duquesa, Niles Cochet, General Tartas, Madame Antoine Rebe, Sunset, Marie d'Orleans, Bermuda Catherine Mermet, Georgetown Tea, Monsieur Tillier, Bridesmaid, Licorice Tea and Hovyn de Tronchere.

Niles was spectacular this summer. I watered it more than I have in the past. It is planted on the west side of the house near the foundation where it is warm. Bermuda Catherine is really a warmth loving tea. A second bush was planted away from any structure and that one never got over two feet tall. The one planted a foot from the house on the south side where it is as warm as possible is ten feet tall and wide.

If nothing else just think no poisonous snakes at all. Just a few garter snakes and the occasional western alligator lizard. They just look like a mini alligator and stay as far as possible from you.

Lance

And you don't go into work at the crack of dawn and find this in the bathroom....

{{gwi:322650}}

Gean, it sounds like you're moving to a really nice place with really nice rose people in it. You know I wish you the best. Everybody is offering wonderfully helpful information. Lance's comments are fantastic. If I ever move (never), I'll have to remember all the things he mentions. There's a lot to think about if you're choosing a new site for roses - and secondarily, for the house you're going to live in. I pray that it will all work together for good without a lot of anxiety on your part. In fact, I bet it does.

Sherry

Gean, here is more information for you. I grew up in Port Orchard which is only twenty miles from where you are looking. If you look at a map the coldest area will be to the southwest from the center of town. There is a weather curtain provided by the Olympic mountains. The area to the southwest is colder and somewhat wetter than the areas to the north, east and southeast. Not enough to matter in most cases but for teas not so good.

The town of Belfair which was only 15 miles west of where I grew up gets 6 to 7 inches more rain on average.

I am on Facebook and posted a ton of pictures this summer. Most are of my pictures are of my hybrid perpetuals, teas and bourbons. There are a few shots of Niles Cochet showing off.

Gallicas and albas are bullet proof here, no spray needed at all. I posted a picture of Madame Pierre Oger on FB and no one could believe that it was grown no spray. and she is a notorious bs magnet.

Lance

Gean, I forgot to tell you about the water. Wether you are on city water or a well the water is quite soft. Boiling an entire pot down dry results in almost no minerals on the sides or bottom.

There are few areas with clay here but you will find it mainly in lowland areas where a glacier once scoured the soil away. If you find a nice house with clay i can tell you it is known as hard pan here for a reason. Light gray in color it takes a pick axe to dig through and a well can run dry if there is clay near the surface.

The soil here has a low pH no matter where you look, around 5-5.5 is common. Hydrated lime works great at raising it quickly.

Well, Lance, I've been spending most of my waking hours scouring Redfin for houses, and I'm looking at the bird's eye views thinking about the need for clearing in the west and south, no trees in the southwest area close enough to crush the house. Whew, Lance, you filled in so many of my blanks and are really helping me know what to look for.

I figured the soil was acid, but I am glad to have a confirmation on that. I had read that the water in Silverdale won an award for 2nd best tasting in the country, but the thing that most amazed me it that it is untreated water from a well. I am glad to know the water throughout the county is soft; I am looking forward to some wonderful tasting coffee!

I am starting to understand that rain shadow map and really appreciate all of your comments. I have never been interested in Facebook, but I am going to find you - I want to see your roses. I plan to stay away from clay soils, fore sure! Lance, all that has been so helpful, I really appreciate your time and interest.

Lucretia, I showed my 11 year old your alligator-in-the-bathroom. We laughed and are glad you are not eaten up. We just saw a Nile crocoile eat a wildebeest on the Planet Earth dvd last night. Yikes!

Sherry, I truly am grateful for your kind comments and all of your prayers and friendship throughout our forum relationship. In an email sense, I am not going away, just changing email addresses and will in a couple of years be able to talk about hybrid perpetuals and albas. Odd, isn't it? It is odd to me, anyway.

Thank you, everyone, so much. Gean

Gean- I live on the other side of the state, about five miles from Idaho. It's a lot colder here in the winter and hotter in the summer. The Seattle area is really beautiful and I would second what someone said earlier about the beautiful rhododendrons and azaleas. They are huge in western Washington, as they are in Vancouver, BC. I think it's all the rain :)

You probably won't find a lot of places in Washington that serve grits and I still get funny looks if I talk about cantaloupe with sausage gravy (my dad's from South Carolina) but there are a lot of great places to eat in the Seattle area. I hope you'll have a great time and I'm sure your garden will be amazing!

lavender lass,
Thank you for the good wishes. I've never heard of cantaloupe with sausage gravy but firmly believe that sausage gravy can make anything taste good! Gean

My grandmother in South Carolina used to make breakfast for us when we came to visit. Homemade biscuits (probably buttermilk) sausage with gravy, grits (of course), fried eggs and cantaloupe. The gravy always ended up getting on the cantaloupe and it was really good! Cantaloupe is also good cut up with thin-sliced ham wrapped around it :)

Western Washington is a lot cooler than Alabama, but it is pretty and if you miss the heat, come visit the other side of the state. Just don't be concerned that central Washington is very dry and kind of desert-like at times. Once you get close to Idaho, you start getting back into trees and mountains and it's really pretty!

I hope you post pics of all your new roses once you get settled! Best of luck finding your new house :)

I have no experience, but I'd be curious if the few Teas bred and/or good in the UK would work up there. My coastal NorCal garden is hard on roses, with cold summers and lots of coastal wind. The standout Teas are the latest bred Teas: just about anything with Cochet in the name, Mme Berkeley. Sometimes the Cochets ball, but Mme Berkeley, never. One point of distinction is that all these plants are budded.

Gean---Just want to wish you luck in new location.

Sounds like you've been getting some great advice-

This is so exciting --I can't wait to see your new garden.

I'm sure you will make many new friends.

wishing you the best-----please keep us posted as you make your move

Florence

Hey, Gean, have you thought of having a greenhouse? That would be so cool. I'd love to have one, but I'd have to borrow someone else's yard.

Sherry

Thank you, Florence. You are the soul of kindness. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. Gean

Sherry, thanks for the idea; if I find a kit on ebay I'll let you know. Happy Thanksgiving! Gean

Hey, Gean, have you thought of having a greenhouse?

*** I never thought we'd get a greenhouse, but you can get them now in a range of sizes, without costing an arm and a leg. (A leg, maybe -- but not an arm AND a leg.)

Jeri

Gean, how exciting! You'll be here in no time and find your new home.

As for greenhouses, after hearing about Jeri's successes with her two greenhouses, we're looking for a spot to place one in our garden. The roses are resisting, however. I cannot for the life of me figure out where to find a 10x12 spot in the garden, especially since we added the extra footage on with the new shed.

Gosh, Sue, how many roses will have to leave if you put in a greenhouse? That is a sad thought. Why don't they build houses with greenhouses instead of garages? Why should a hunk of metal get its own house but not roses? Perverted thinking on the part of builders, as far as I'm concerned!

Jeri, I will save my money.

Thanks, ya'll. Sherry, see what you started...!! Just for that you are obligated to come to visit me and help put it together!!

Gean, DH said just the other night he was going to have to buy a lottery ticket (yeah, right). Don't remember what hugely expensive thing he was contemplating - maybe taxes, utility bills, etc. :)) What a thrill it would be to come see you AND help put up your greenhouse! Then, of course, you'd have to come to Florida to do the same. (I'm the type who keeps score.) Your DH isn't likely to give up his garage (I know mine wouldn't), so you could get the kind that attaches to the house/garage lean-to style like those curved-glass sunrooms. It's really an absolute must to get it before the gardens go in so as not to have to evict any roses.

Thinking more precisely about the greenhouse visit, we'd probably have to be very efficient with our scheduling. Say, two days for greenhouse building and five days for rose garden touring, but, of course, with that winning ticket in hand time is no object, right? Love ya,

Sherry

Sherry, if you're going to win that much money, would you mind just hiring someone to glue together my greenhouse so we can spend the whole time tootling around?

July sounds good - :) Gean

No problem!

Sherry

I found this thread..I missed it because my Dad was dying. He passed Nov 19. He loved plants BTW. After Mom passed he would put a rose or gardenia next to her urn..

Anyway, I was wondering if Gean and I could get an invitation to Luretia's house when her roses are blooming..and Lance's..and Lance that woman in Silverdale with all the old roses...since I don't know much about OGR, it would be such a treat! PLEASEEE...We can make a trip to Starbucks and drive...I will drive since Gean is new here! I promise I won't hit the whiskey before we go..LOL