Many of us love the older roses, but we are so spread out across the country. THe big box stores are everywhere, and they plus the ARS define roses as those blooms that are gigantic.As one person I don't know what can be done.

Around here the nurseries as well as the larger stores sell the latest rose with the large bloom. We seldom see anything that would inspire a person to do anything but go to the stores and buy one of the roses. I don't know how a person would be able to get the local rose societies or garden clubs to begin encouraging the growth of the older varieties.

I don't know if that many people really go to public gardens and use those gardens as a source for their selection. So many people do not grow roses, but they garden. Among their other flowers, they have roses too, and their decision comes from what color would blend in well. There seems to be no selection available for the older roses.

There are a few organizations that promote the earlier roses, but being able to spread the word seems to be almost too overwhelming of a job.

Paul, I for one appreciate your email, and feel that what is happening to you is happening universally. About 5 years ago or so I thought the ARS was going to promote older roses more, but that did not seem to happen.

I wish you the best, and intend to order from you in the spring.

Sammy

Thanks for sharing that, Carole.
I hope they bounce back quickly, they have such a fine reputation.
I bought my tea rose book from them.
It's sad to hear these great antique rose establishments are struggling.

Randy

Thank you for forwarding this. I've been sad to hear of the problems of the other nurseries as well. The thing is, we all only have so much room for roses in our gardens. I rarely buy a box store rose and almost exclusively support small nurseries. But still, unless I remove the garage and the house, my space is limited.

We have to get other people interested in growing them and supporting small nurseries. I know that Jeri views her work as 'missionary' work, trying to educate and encourage.

I think it was catsrose in a thread awhile ago who talked about various ways to encourage others. I do some through my local garden club, etc., but my garden is too young yet to try to convince others, although my two year old teas are pretty stupendous. Luxrose mentioned something awhile ago, too, I think.

What are some ways you all can think of to encourage others to become similarly afflicted with old roses? Anything you are doing now? it will encourage others to hear about it.

I was glad to hear Paul is speaking in Atlanta and hope he does more of it. What else is going on?

Yes i got my email also. i have seen paul drop in on some of the vintage forums and wanted to ask him how business was faring for him as well, because i imagine they have all seen a sales downturn, but i didn't feel it might have been appropriate. It would be a shame to rush to save one nursery and neglect others causing their collapse.

How sad that unfeeling and uncaring big businesses can come into a community and do so much damage. Even when a fight against them is won, the emotional and financial toll can be great and continue for a long period of time. I wish Ashdown all the best in the future. I hope your property sells soon and that your new location will promote lots of drive-by business in addition to mail order.

Ingrid

Carole, Thank you for posting this.
Even when we run out of room in our own gardens, there are ways to help keep these nurseries alive. We can give gifts with a tag attached giving the nursery's name and website; even better are gift certificates that force people to go look at the site. Friends, garden clubs, local arboretums, churches, schools, senior centers, etc. You can give talks, donate to non-profit auctions...

I'd see if that big bank needs some landscaping and then use Ashdown Roses exclusively.
Public parks, government buildings, and city beautification projects should all be using old roses!
-B

Despite Ashdown's woes, they still sent really nice roses to me this year. They were small, really small, but they were VIGOROUS. Mutabilis and Smith's Parish are doing wonderfully and bloomed multiple times, and the double palastrus is also moving along rather well.

A life long customer for sure here.

I really like the idea of giving roses to people for gifts...the gift certificate idea seems like a good way to do so too. And a major gift-giving holiday is approaching, so it is an idea.

I don't even look at the Box Stores roses anymore.

I will continue to promote Ashdown and the other specialty rose nurseries in my rose society. I can safetly say that several members have ordered from them based on my entusiastic endorsements.

Another way to support is to talk to your co-workers and get them to place an order through you. I get them hooked on old roses when I bring bouquet after bouquet after bouquet into work and share them. I've done this many times. When I place an order, it usually includes roses I'm ordering from other people. Sometimes the whole ordering online thing is overwhelming for some. But, they are eager to give me $15 to pick out a rose for them. I have several friends who say...just spend about $50 and get me some good roses. I usually pick out the most vigorous, disease resistant full proof roses I can find...success breeds success. I hope some of the people will be inspired to order on there own as well.

Robert

Hey Robert, would you mind sharing what roses you select for your friends? I am looking for some vigorous disease resistant roses for myself. I have plenty of climbers, and don't care to get hybrid teas or floribundas. I would love to know what names you give your friends.

Sammy

Sheesh, as if the nursery business wasn't hard enough without financial bullies! Best wishes for their move!

Mike

I picked up my Blackberry last night and saw the email from Paul...I admit I was almost afraid to open it after reading about the situation that Vintage is in. Considering the times we are in I look at it as almost good news. It sounds to me like Paul has a plan to go forward...all he needs is a little help from his friends. So lets help!

I can be a bit dense at times. I never realized the full extent of the bind they were in although I wondered why Paul and Trish were running the whole show themselves. If I lived closer I would have volunteered to help. IMHO they are both to be commended for what they did.

I have also given Ashdown Roses as gifts...and will keep doing so. Now I think maybe I should give more gift certificates. That gets people to their site and hopefully they will spend more once there.

As far as their moving...in the short term it will be difficult but the long term benefits certainly out weigh the negatives. The Cherokee Foothills Scenic Highway is a major tourist route in the Carolinas and the increased accessability of the nursery can only increase business.

Paul also mentioned a "Rose Moving Party". I am up for it so let me be the one to help organize it. While I am nothing but a rose amateur I can dig. When the time gets closer hopefully Paul will give us some dates and we'll all meet up there and dig! dig! dig! I've been told I'm a decent cook so I'll bring some food too....how about an East Coast version of Vintage's Dirt Days?

Carole

I thought banks were supposed to help, not hinder, small businesses and their customers. No wonder they are all going out of business. I don't like what is going on in the financial world today, but I hope the people from the bank involved in this are now out of business, for good.

What terrible news--I can't imagine the stress they've been working under for months. Considering my RRD losses I've been thinking I need to move to something else like irises or lavenders or other perennials--but there's nothing like a rose for three seasons of color and bloom. It's heartbreaking to lose an established rose to RRD--but maybe I should adopt the thinking that they're biennials and just enjoy them while I have them.
I've thought of inviting our local newspaper out to show them the old roses and let them know about the difficulty the independent nurseries are having. A local nursery even had some own-root OGRs they were growing, but they had a clearance last fall and the owner said the unpurchased ones were going on the burn pile. :-(

People walking by our house sometimes ask if mine are Knockout roses--simply because the Knockouts are so heavily advertised, that's the only name people hear about. (The only thing is I'd have to do a lot of weeding and primping before a photographer could be set loose in the garden! *blush* )

I had noticed the downturn in their inventory, etc. I hope their business settlement is a positive one, and keeps them going. With respect to their future: you see all the earmarks on the federal "bailout bill"- e.g. tens of millions of dollars for racetracks, wooden arrow tips, etc., and it makes me mad. I would not mind seeing some grants available for nurseries like Paul's, Vintage, and all the others.They truly do have a historical agricultural heritage that is fragile, and needs protection. Too bad there is not some kind of "public-private" partnership that would help provide some cash flow, and benefit all in the long run. I will do my patriotic part to "Keep on ordering"!

I will also help move roses. Trish has been so generous with her time, and expertise, I can't thank her enough. I wonder if there is a timeline for the move? Sally

Having been around the nursery during the time this was going on I can vouch for the fact that what this bank did was so premeditated, underhanded and verging on illegal that it was amazing. It took everything Paul had to fight them and it is my personal opinion that a lesser man would have given up long ago. The fact that he has tried to hold on and continue the business speaks to his love of roses and his determination to fight a bully at the expense of his own financial interests.

Moving the nursery is going to be a huge job. I encourage everyone within driving distance to come and help. An Ashdown dirt day is a wonderful idea. I'll certainly be there! I also encourage you to support them by buying roses, books, DVD's, whatever you can to help. The pruning DVD by David Stone is excellent, so if you don't need roses.....let's please try to save our small nurseries that carry the old garden roses that we love! I can assure you that they aren't getting rich doing this. They do it because they love the roses and their customers.

Carol

I had no idea of what was happening at Ashdown this past year. Paul has proven once again that he is a real hero in the rose world, keeping the business of Ashdown going through such a battle! I'm looking over my roses to see which ones I will be replacing next year and I'll definitely be placing an order, but I'd also like to show my appreciation by driving down to dig if there's an Ashdown dirt day. (It would depend on the winter weather/road conditions of course, but I sure hope I can come.) And I know that there are lots of forumers who live much closer than I do - surely we could put together a big work force to help Ashdown move and show our appreciation!

Disturbing news.
Paul, you have my respect for enduring through this ordeal. I'm sure it's not easy to fight the "big boys." Some people just don't get that real people are affected by the pressure on small businesses.

Carla

Paul,

I had no idea what was going on but I KNEW something was since I have known youall for a few years. YEAH for small business and I hope this was plastered all over the media.

Mari

Paul, if you are reading this, congratulations on surviving the problems, and my heartfelt best wishes for your future success. I'm very happy you weathered the worst of the storm and I wish you good luck through the recovery period.

Rosefolly

Our support here in Texas stands with you all, as well. I will add Ashdown to my prayers for prosperity!!!

Hugs,
Allison

Reading Paul's email last night turned our stomachs. The folks at Ashdown have been such great friends to us, since we jumped headfirst into roses. And it's because of Paul's gatherings that many of us have become rose friends.

As if all the news this week wasn't bad enough, hearing of Ashdown's assault by the greedmeisters was the last straw.

We'll be happy to dig, move or do anything to help Ashdown carry on, if they plan a 'dirt day' this winter.

Lila

I am so happy with all the support y'all have shown and the willingness to get together and help Ashdown move. And I know that Paul and Trish have just got to be thrilled to read all that has been written here.

After talking a bit more to Paul it isn't so much digging help they need (they have a bareroot rose digger) but rather help collecting the plants, getting them on the trailer, taking them to the new property and planting them in predug holes or furrows. They're also going to need help mapping all their new locations. Nothing to it!

It looks like we're looking at some time in January for the move. I guess this is when the roses are as close to being dormant as they get down here. The good thing about the South is that you can really get decent weather in January so that shouldn't be a problem. Annececelia if you can get here from Michigan it will almost be like a tropical vacation...sort of!

Sally wrote:

:::Trish has been so generous with her time, and expertise, I can't thank her enough.:::

Trish is wonderful....I can't say that enough. She has aimed me in the right rose direction over and over again. Trish (as well as Paul) have their hearts and souls in that business and what they both do for the world of roses cannot be commended enough!

Carole

If any of you have ever wondered if it is possible to blush and cry at the same time, let me assure you that it is. I am moved beyond words. For those of you that have sent in personal messages, I will be responding in kind. Thank you all so much for every thing. I have been truly blessed with some amazing friends in this life and I am sure that Paul feels the same way. Again, thank you and bless you all.

Trish

Annececelia, if you decide to venture over the mountains in January, you are welcome to stay here. I would love to see you again!

I talked to Paul yesterday and he was very encouraged by everyone's support. Remember, the holidays are fast approaching and a gift certificate for roses or the Tea book would be a great gift! Pruning time will be here soon enough and those who have questions about pruning would love the DVD by David Stone. Any purchase would help Ashdown keep the doors open. All hands will be appreciated during the move.

Carol

This pretty much settles it - there is NO reason for experienced rosarians, particularly those who love Old Garden Roses, to purchase plants from big box stores and large corporate nurseries that use unregulated grafting practices. There are simply too few independent nurseries struggling to survive. As we have seen these mom and pop nurseries oftentimes carry irreplaceable cultivars. I've said this before and I'll say it again. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOOSE VINTAGE AND THEIR COLLECTION. We also can't loose places like Ashdown, Countryside, etc.

So buck up folks and put a stop to a bad habit. I haven't purchased a cheap box rose in well over five years and I don't miss it. Last week I put in an order with Vintage. I'm out of space so the plants will go into my mother's garden. Roses make wonderful gifts.

Patrick

Carol, I'm putting dibs in for some space in your home too; I want to help as well. Gean

I just want to add my respect and love for Paul and Trish and if you don't mind, a few tips for a group like Friends of Vintage. Get together and decide on someone to organize your dirt days and such. The person works in sinc with Paul and Trish arranging the days and sending out announcements to the forums and getting the group together, pot luck assignments(like Karen always brings her brownies and Geno brings the wine.) We also try to arrange housing for out of town guests etc.
Good food is a great inducement. Our favorite part after the work used to be the visit to the Vintage store where the joy of enabling sang forth and many the day when we all took our Ellen Wilmott home or our Careless Love, comparing notes over the ensuing years. The greatest people show up for these things, great gardeners, people who care about other people, people who are willing to help out. Some of my dearest friends were acquired from this particular pastime. I wish you success and the joy of it.
la

The grafted mainstream roses sold here are often terrible, dwindling away after a few years or leafing out with conspicuous mosaic while still in the garden center. Any supplier who offers genuinely clean stock should be flooded with orders for doing so.

Anyone have any ideas for spreading the word to local nurseries without being offensive?

There's one in particular right in my area that's across from a high-profile, big selection of Proven Winners, overpriced place. The service sucks, but people must go for the selection. The smaller place is family owned, with good service, but it sells mostly annuals, super-common perennials and shrubs, own-grown and Proven Winners. No one around here sells old roses and this nursery could fill the gap left by Great Lakes Roses if it wanted to and give people a reason to come, or at least cross the street...

With its location, the nursery is in a situation to cater to wealthy and very wealthy people (who not only have a lot of rose-growing land and could hire the gardeners to care for them, but would be enticed by the idea of an antique rose, especially because of the history and not everyone has one -- roses as a staus symbol), and also the poor and not as wealthy in my area who also have old and historic homes where such roses would fit right in and low-care would be a big bonus! If this place advertised in the Michigan Gardener (our state gardening magazine), was featured in the paper by a well-known gardening columnist (who would probably love to help) and put ads in the 2 small-town papers and the neighborhood and historic district newsletters, they could easily drum up a lot of interest!

Would you write a letter? Go in? What's the nice way to say, "Look, your nursery is boring, most of the traffic is across the street, and there's not much reason to shop here. This might be a little risky, but there is some demand for these roses here that could help your business, you're in a good situation to really market yourself in the area and beyond, and here are a couple of vendors that you can buy from"?

I actually talked to someone in a local nursery that I like. They order from Star, Weeks, and J&P bareroot - and wholesale purchase price is very low. Then they pot them up right away and sell for $20 a rose. Come spring they increase the price to $35 a rose. The rose-stocking guy said they would not make a profit ordering from an independent grower. Then there is the demand. This nursery stocks nice HTs, floribundas and some Austins. But the most they have of any one rose is the white Iceberg. And they sell all of them at $35 a rose. So I can't really blame them for their stocking choices - they have to make a profit too, and if that's what people want, well...
Masha

I am thrilled with the response to this whole idea!!!

Thanks for the ideas Luanne. I figured food would work and we all know there is no better meal than when friends bring their favorites. I truly hope there will be some serious enabling going on...what are friends for?

What I'll do is keep in touch with Paul and post the dates on here. If you'd rather email me at Chrissy357@aol.com and I'll save all the emails to a separate folder. That way I can email out all the details when I know more.

How's that sound?

Carole

I've started another thread in response to your overwhelming support but directly to rosysunnygirl. I have found two things are needed to get your garden center started on unusual roses.

#1. Get in there and tell them you are not happy about their rose selection and want more. Be polite but direct.

#2. Offer to guide them in their selections then get your local rose society or forumers to show up for some rose days where you educate the public and train their staff. Independent Garden Centers want something different in roses but they are scared to jump in and need guidance.

Keep those two things in mind and I suspect you'll have luck. And oh yeah, tell them about us Independent Rose Nurseries who sells these roses and can stock them!!!!

Paul Z.

Gean, of course you are more than welcome in my home! I will be delighted to have you here. We always have a good time when this bunch of rose nuts get together and I know this will be no exception. Plus, we will be helping Paul and Trish (who deserve and need the help) to keep Ashdown going! Everyone wins.

Carol
P.S. I hope you like Basset hounds because Beauregard demands to be the center of attention :-)

Paul and Trish, I wish you the best.

Carole, I hope that this is the birth of Friends of Ashdown (FAE). There is nothing more rewarding than to go to a Dirt Day, work in a beautiful spot, talk to old friends, meet new ones and enjoy a bit of food, a reward for some work.

Carol

As a newsletter editor, I'd like permission from Paul to publish this letter for our rose society members. We also have local independent nurseries feeling this economic pinch. I've touted buying local for years and shied away from ordering if that rose can be purchased locally. Our rose societies have ordered bulk minis to resell at rose shows and other garden club events. I think we could possibly treat OGR's much the same way, especially if they're shipped very, very small. We don't offer roses that can be purchased locally because a.) we don't want to undermine their business and our relationship and b.) there are many classes of roses but only 5-6 are ever found at a nursery. If a rose society is supposed to be an educational group then they should be educating rosarians about roses that will do well in their climate, not just ones that 'show well'.

I'll get off my soapbox now... maybe.

Please feel free to publish. Kudos to you for supporting your local garden centers first as they too need your business. You might try approaching them about expanding their rose offerings by helping them put together an order of roses you know do well and then holding a few events there to educate both the public and their employees about them. That way everyone wins.

Paul

Paul, couldn't find the thread, but thanks so much for the advice!! And, please, please, can I have your permission to possibly publish the letter, too (I'm not the newsletter editor, but I can ask).

and Moroseaz, I couldn't agree with you more. The problem around here is finding enough like-minded people who don't grow roses just to show them and don't see a value to them being in the garden if they can't/haven't/don't win Queen. So I think our problem is as much having to win over fellow rose growers and lovers as it is having to win over nurseries and the rest of the general public.

If a rose society is supposed to be an educational group then they should be educating rosarians about roses that will do well in their climate, not just ones that 'show well'.

You are more than welcome and yes, feel free to publish the letter. If you need some help with garden centers let us know. We supply wholesale but if you are far from us we might try to find you another rose grower that does wholesale that is closer to keep shipping costs down.

The other thread I started was to thank everyone for all the kind words and thoughts. It's on the Antique Forum as well.

Thanks
Paul