I should say that I'm not making a case that they are one and the same. I'm just wondering if they are similar enough in the garden that one could substitute for the other if unavailable.

:-)

~Christopher

Since I'm not familiar with 'Ley's Perpetual', I can't comment on any characteristics it might share with 'Marechal Niel'. However, if I were to recommend a variety that's similar enough to MN to use as a substitute for that rose, I would suggest 'Duchesse d'Auerstadt'. (If fragance in important to you, I have to admit that DdA doesn't quite equal MN in that department.)

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Duchesse d'Auerstadt'

Unfortunately, I am kind of a fragrance snob, but with good reason. There are just TOO MANY beautiful roses out there, so I needed SOME criterium to limit my choices. Whenever I've bought any, I usually narrow the search to 5/5 or 4/5 in the fragrance department first and then select what I like from what's left. The only exceptions were when something had a relatively unique characteristic that I found appealing.

I'm not even sure if I will get either of the two. I had a spot in mind, and was thinking of either a soft-yellow or dark-red climbing rose with fragrant flowers that hung down. The spot is against the south-facing wall of the garage that's a taupe-gray color. If I went with a soft-yellow rose, I would plant the clematis 'Niobe' to climb into the rose. If I went with the dark red rose (I'm leaning toward 'Orfeo') I'd plant a purplish-blue clematis with it.

:-)

~Christopher

I don't know 'Ley's Perpetual' either (though it sounds as though it's worth getting to know), but I do have both 'Marechal Niel' and 'Duchesse d'Auerstaedt'. DdA is a rich golden yellow, considerably brighter than the pale greenish yellow of MN, which is an enchanting shade even if I don't make it sound that way. Both have large globular blooms. I find DdA quite fragrant, tea scented, and like you I appreciate fragrance. My grafted plant is vigorous and an overall good grower.
Melissa

In England (yeah, I know how much that helps!) 'Marechal Niel' is huge, rampant but its blooms unsuited to wet Summers, though in a good season it is stunning - great hanging globes of gold.

'Ley's Perpetual' is not perpetual, but does repeat well. It is much more restrained in growth and better suited to a pillar or pergola. A beautiful and very worthwhile rose.

I agree that in colour the two are more alike than the other yellow Tea/Noisettes, and would make a choice dependant on what space you have and how you intend to train it.

Best wishes
Jon

I have Duchesse d'Auerstaed now and it is a very healthy grower in my climate, which I'm sure is much different than yours. So far it hasn't bloomed, but that is not unusual for a 2 year old own root climber, in my experience.

I tried Marechal Niel twice (or was it three times) and Ley's Perpetual once and they all died. All were small own root bands. I would love to be able to grow either of these but I'm thinking they do not like my heat. Also Marechal Niel is supposed to be difficult to get started, I have heard.

No problems at all like this from Duchesse d'Auerstaed, as I said, easy to grow. I think she is a seedling of Reve D'Or, however, which grows well in my climate. Marechal Niel is a seedling of Chromatella (I believe), which is also a weak grower for me.

My Ley's Perpetual also died so perhaps it is the heat. My Cl. Lady Hillingdon started as a band and it wanted to bloom when it was one year old and at one and a half years I'm constantly disbudding it. The're not all the same, are they?

Thanks for the input, everyone! I should add that I'm in central New Jersey, second county from the coast. I was actually concerned that I might be in too cold of an area, rather than being concerned about the heat. Summers here do get hot and humid for a few weeks, but I don't think I have as much intense heat here as do some of you in California. I'll keep them both in mind. My concern against Marechal Niel was everything I kept reading about some plants not thriving, perhaps due to an overload of viruses, so I was thinking about Ley's Perpetual as a substitute. I'll let you know what I decide when I decide.

:-)

~Christopher