That's so interesting, I really liked hearing more details about your giant. :)

Thanks for the kind comments - it is amazing what roses will do when they are planted in a climate/soil etc. that they like! I keep having to remind myself of that each time I see a gorgeous rose in a catalogue that is not suited to our climate - there are so many that are.

Grand Ave. Giant used to stop passer-byes all of the time when in full bloom in the Spring. I am determined that it, or its offspring will again, in the same place.

Jackie

Jackie,
What a great story. I have to say I'm most touched by how long your home has been in your family. That is truly special. Just imagine how happy the one who planted that rose would be that you are taking such good care to keep it going. I wish I had a similiar tale and that everyone did.
Thank you,
Kitty

Jackie, I have no experience with OLD roses, and my Le Vesuve is a mere baby in comparison to yours, but I have wanted to post on this rose since recently observing the way mine is growing. I'm afraid anyone who has ever seen RRD would be petrified to look at my bush. I was amazed to see new growth that looked like the witch's brooms of RRD. Now this is different in that it matures into normal growth, but that new growth was coming out of the end of older canes every whichaway and was voluminous. The bush is truly becoming a tangled mess. I wanted to ask someone if it would be wise to trim out some of that new growth to keep the bush from becoming so entangled (maybe pulling it off at the growth point the way you do rootstock suckers) OR would that just promote more growth as is typical with Chinas. Now that you mention yours growing "around in circles and intertwining with each other", I can see the beginnings of that on my bush. I can barely reach into the bush because the growth is so dense. I can see where the soft new growth could easily and often bump into another branch and be forced another way - through, in between and around older growth, creating curls and circles. Does anyone have an answer to this possibly destructive growth habit? Or should I just stand back and let him be? My plant has not achieved symmetry yet (I think the neighbors must be wondering why I don't shape him up, but he's almost there), but about 75% of him does overlap the edges of his 6' round bed, and he's at least 4' tall now.

I was also wondering if you shouldn't also cut out a few of the oldest canes on your bushes (not just the dead stuff). Do you think he'd put out new basal growth like a climber and thereby rejuvenate himself?

Sherry

Sherry, my bushes do the very same thing. When they were small they were quite symmetrical, but that went by the wayside rather quickly as one branch grew long and leaned drunkenly to one side and five or six branchlets grew off the top of that. I can't get inside the three older ones without emerging with bloody fingers, although I have tried to disengage the branches closer to the ground from each other. I have a feeling that it might be best to let them do their own thing and that in the end the bushes will become more or less symmetrical again. I don't know how I would be able to get in the middle and cut out older or dead branches unless two other people parted the bushes with rakes or shovels to allow me access. It doesn't sound too enticing and I won't think about it again for another few years.

That's amazing that your Le Vesuve has almost filled in its 6 foot circle. Mine are not nearly as big but as long as they're healthy and flowering well I'm not going to complain.

Ingrid

It is amazing, isn't it? Not just a little scary either. I never noticed this explosion of growth until the other day. I guess usually I'm busy deadheading, but lately there's been a lull in blooming - same with my second one. I'm not concerned about the odd shape. I'm sure it won't be long until he's all evened out, but he does look funny now. Like he's having a bad hair day.

Sherry

I think the growth habit is just what LV does, and you are right to just leave it alone for a while. My "baby" one did the same thing, sending out canes at odd angles which then grew sort of bushes at their ends. It now, however, is a nice round shape, and I just prune off the canes it shoots out occasionally that would block the driveway. I can still see underneath it, it builds up what looks like dead wood but really isn't, and uses it as a support. I think that's why it is able to be a "free standing" shrub that gets 8 feet tall, without any support other than itself.

I just went to look at my old one, and because we did take out a lot of what really was dead wood, some of which was supporting it, it has settled down a bit, and is now sticking back out into the path. I KNOW I had pruned it so that the path was clear just 3 days ago. However, I am going to leave it alone to hopefully recuperate.

Glad to hear how much you both love yours - it really is a great rose.

Jackie

I wonder how old the found Tea roses in California are,
such as 'Angels Camp Tea" that was found in the gold mining region or "Westside Road Cream Tea" the later Tea rose was found in NOrthern California, by Phillip Robinson, not far from Sebastopol. Tea roses were mostly bred in France, and a few other countries, but not as far as I know, in North America (until after 2000). The era of breeding Tea roses in the West began with Adam and Comtesse Emmeline de Guigne in 1838 and by the 1920's very few Tea roses were being bred, "Rosette Delizy and a gigantea hybrid "Susan Louise" being among the later Tea roses. By going on that information alone I would subtract the date in which "Angels camp Tea and "Westside road cream Tea" were discovered, by the date of 1929, ( of course they could be from an earlier date, I am being conservative) for a possible age of how old those 2 Tea roses were when found. I stress the term "possibility".
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were 50 years old, or older.

In the 1950's my grandmother grew a Tea-Poly called "Mlle. Cecille Brunner" I think of this rose as being more of a Tea than a Poly, because in its larger form named "Spray Cecille Brunner it has the twiggy growth of a Tea, on a Tea sized rosebush that grows to be 8' tall by 6 foot wide.
in 1969 Grandma passed on, and her daughter, my mother Silva, dug up the rosebush and brought it across the street to her own garden, the last time I saw the plant it was still healthy and blooming normally and it is now more than 50 years old.

Lux.
P.S. by the by, in what city was Grand avenue Giant found?

Funny you should mention spray Cecile Brunner. Next to my old Grand Ave. Giant/Le Vesuve (it is in San Rafael, CA - to answer your question) is a very old Duchesse de Brabant. Next to that in a line is an enormous old spray Cecile Brunner. It is 8 feet high, and at least 9 feet wide, and 8 feet deep. It is up against a low stone wall, and from the street looks even bigger, because it drapes over the wall and down to the next garden bed beyond it, which is lower than the one it is planted in. In this case, because of its growth habit, I can see underneath it, and it is all one bush. It is thriving, and is in full bloom at the moment. I am surmising that all of these roses were planted in a row at about the same time. There is no separation between them anymore, they have just merged together.

Jackie

I have my fingers crossed that your very old plant will continue to survive a few years longer now that the competition has been cleared away. Having seen this magnificent plant for myself, I'm feeling some loyalty to it. Once long ago I heard that some old eglantines were discovered that were several hundred years old. Wouldn't it be wonderful to see this tea enter its second century?

Rosefolly