You threw compost away? Insanity!

If your soil is really that bad (have you had it tested?) you could either remove part of it and bring in topsoil or build raised beds.

Otherwise, you should be able to get good amendments at the big box stores - some bagged manure, some compost. If there's a Starbucks, collect their grinds and till them in. You can till some in now, and top the new beds with grass clippings and shredded leaves over winter. Till in the leaves and another round of goodies in Spring - and it should start to be pretty good. I takes some time for the organic stuff to break down.

You can use all of those items once or twice a year as topdressing to keep feeding your soil as you need to replace the organic matter. You can dig it in between or around the roses, too.

Alfalfa and fish emulsion is not really to improve the soil structure, though if you added enough alfalfa hay it would serve as organic matter. However, alfalfa hay often contains seeds and you may just end up with lots of alfalfa growing. There's quite a bit of it growing in my yard and it's a *pain* to dig out - it grows a long taproot.

Have you been to a local nursery to see what they recommend or if they have bulk compost sources?

Compost heals all. You might check with local landscapers to see where they buy it in bulk. Or try the "lasagne method" if you can get lots of autumn leaves from your neighbors. If you go to the Compost and Soil Forum FAQ, there is information on the "lasagne method", sometimes called also "interbay mulch" method, also plenty of information if you google it.

But excellent soil doesn't happen overnight, or even in a year. It's a long term thing and it all comes down to compost.

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ on interbay mulch/lasagne compost method

I absolutely agree. COMPOST. COMPOST. COMPOST. Unless you want to work with raised beds or containers, good soil won't happen overnight. Start by amending your soil with compost. Then every time you add a new plant, incorporate more compost into the soil. Sprinkle it around your plants throughout the growing season also. Eventually your problem soil will come alive. Once your soil loosens up and is aerated a bit, lots of beneficial worms will be attracted to your ever-improving soil. The worms will help aerate and add nutrients to the soil.

If you have some spare room in your yard consider buying or building a composter. There are many styles and sizes to choose from. The best part is you will be able to make your own compost with your free garden and kitchen waste (with the exception of fats, meats, or dairy which attract animals).

Another great amendment, in addition to compost, is chopped up leaves. Think about it. Trees have really deep roots. They can get to lots of nutrients that garden plants can't get to. These nutrients are in their fallen leaves. Just chop them up with a lawn mower and toss them around your plants as mulch, put them in your composter, or let them decompose into nutrient rich leaf mold.

Whatever you choose to do, keep in mind that great soil doesn't happen in one season. It takes many years to get that awesome brown crumbly soil that we all desire.

Agree with the above posts. Compost. You can buy humus, compost, manure, all of them will be fine. And we're coming to fall. Save your leaves. When you trim your garden for the fall - the dried stalks, spent blooms on the mums, dead annuals, all that is great compost. Orange and grapefruit rinds, melon rinds, pretty much anything from your kitchen although eggs and meat products will probably attract animals. Just put all that in a pile and mix it up and let it sit somewhere. If you don't have a pile, put it in a big garbage can (it will stink in the spring because it's lacking air, but you can still make good compost in a can). In the spring that stuff will be halfway to compost and you can spread it, then buy some bags of compost or humus or manure and put that on top. Or some kind of organic mulch - chips or bark or something.

I understand where you're at because I was there not too long ago. I planted roses without really preparing the soil and got some lame results from some of them. My fault, not the plants. I just read on a gardening blog last night that soil quality is 95% of what makes a sucessful garden. I've got a long way to go but I'm very motivated and it just takes some time but it's worth it.

Everyone here is right, of course - compost. Collect all your kitchen scraps like crazy. I go to Starbucks and get their grounds and they are very nice about giving them away. I tell them it's "heroin for worms" because it will get the worms working through your soil. I also get bags of mushroom compost and cow manure (aged) at Lowe's and put that in my soil too. I will collect all the leaves this fall from my yard and my neighbors and mulch my beds. Any leftover leaves will go into black garbage bags to sit in a sunny spot to decompose. That will give you the leaf mold that you're looking for.

When I plant a rosebush now I dig a very generous hole, put in a mixture of potting soil, alfalfa pellets, bone meal, and some lime. My roses are responding very well to a twice yearly application of alfalfa brew as well.

I probably sound like I'm obsessed but it's the only way to have a beautiful garden and that's what I want without having to bring in topsoil and start from scratch. Even then you have to compost to maintain the soil quality. It's just part of gardening which can be very rewarding when you see healthy, disease resistent plants that thrive.

I think compost is a good general recommendation. 5% organic matter is a healthy amount, but more can be used. Just don't go overboard since too much can be just as bad as too little. I personally would make sure a soil test is done if your plants do that poorly. In SC you could easily have a very low pH. Another factor is the drainage. If you have heavy clay soil, then I would plant them a bit "high". Almost sounds like you have the soil that is left over from construction. Most places that sell bulk amounts of mulch sell some type of soil amendment.

Never ever throw compost away. Even if it's not the best, it's better than nothing.
Another soil builder you can use is horse manure. Surely there are stables somewhere in your area? Most of them have a big pile of manure that you can take for free.
Put it in plastic tubs or garbage cans to keep it off your car's carpet and trunk liner. Put it down now or this fall and don't be afraid to use too much. Over winter it will decompose and winter's rain will wash much of the good stuff into the soil. I try to put down 4 inches or so in all my beds each year. Earthworms will work it into the soil. Over seven years, my yellow sand has turned into rich loamy black soil with lots of water holding organics.
My six compost bins keep me supplied with lots of rich compost so trips to the big box stores to buy it is not necessary.
Composting need not be a chore. I'm a lazy composter. I place it in the bin and leave it for a year. No turning or adding compost starter, the organisms are there and find it naturally.
Walk into a stand of trees. The fact you can and not be covered by leaves proves that compost happens and it does with no help from us. Last year's two feet of leaves have been turned into a thin layer of soil.
Cut your grass often and leave the clippings on the lawn or if you have to pick them up, put them in your compost pile or place them on your rose beds.

I have two suggestions for composting lawn clippings. First, pile them just a few inches high and add some "brown" material (dried leaves, newspaper, etc.). Then add more "green" materials a few inches high (lawn clippings, annuals, prunings as long as they aren't diseased). Keep alternating between "brown" and "green" layers. A good mix of browns, greens, water (keep it like a wrung out sponge), and air (turn it with a fork) will keep your compost actively decomposing and keep it from getting smelly.

My second precaution is to NOT compost lawn clippings if you used herbicides on your yard. In a few months...FREE compost! What could be better for a gardener and a healthy garden.

I mix the grass clippings with coffee grounds as my "special blend" compost. It's ready in just a few weeks and is the best stuff of all. It almost makes me wish I had more lawn (well, sometimes).

If you plan to plant roses in spring, you might consider planting a cover crop, to be tilled in before you plant. Local organic gardeners should be able to tell you what is appropriate for your climate.

You might check with your town to see if they have a leaf composting facility. I get big truckloads full of it in a nearby town each spring for $10 a load. Before I had a truck I'd bag it up in garbage bags.

Manure, compost, wood chip mulch or leaf mulch.
But the manure is what will turn it into good soil really quickly.
What I did: My local wastewater plant sells human waste composted with wood chips. I dug a big hole for every rose (think 1.5-2ft/1.5-2ft) and put this "compost" into the hole along with some bone meal. Added more "compost" as a top dressing to make the soil elsewhere OK for perennials, then laid down cardboard boxes and then put wood chip mulch on top. 6 months later there were worms everywhere! Instant crumbly brown soil! And this was in a spot where the soil was 1ft of sand on top of hard red clay. My soil test said there were almost no nutrients at all.

I don't know if this question will get answered but..

I thought I read you were not supposed to put fresh horse manure on roses. I have many horses around me and I am sure the owners would be happy to give it to me. Do I have to age it/let it rest first?

Hoov - lawn and coffee grounds? I can do that also. My gardeners use nitrogen fertilizer, will that negatively effect the compost? Do you have a compost bin that you put the lawn and grounds in, or just dump it on the roses fresh? My lawn clippings smell so horrible I can't get near the cans by the time the garbage men get here.

I am planting roses right now, so this information is great! Thanks,
Eileen

Tinyrose - there seems to be a bit of misinformation. what you want to do is have a mix of things that are "high" in nitrogen and things that have less nitrogen. All organic matter will have carbon, so it's really a matter of just what the precise mix is. So things that are called "greens" are things that are high in nitrogen, regardless of what color they are. Grass clippings are greens. So is fish. The reason fish stinks is because of the nitrogen. Other animals get rid of it thru urine, and that can also be a green, although it can also kill your plants for other reasons. Horse manure usually has a nice mix of undigested grasses and seeds and if it's from stables, it usually has a nice shot of urine too, since the horses don't do their business in different areas. The odor you object to with your grass clippings is the nitrogen. That's why you mix the grass with some autumn leaves.

So if you want to make compost, you mix up the greens and browns and the pile gets really hot and kills the pathogens that may be there and you end up with nice, crumbly compost that has an odor of musty earth, like the forest floor. In other words, it won't stink. How you get there is another question - in the end, everything organic will compost.

If you don't have a big pile, it won't get that hot, but it will still compost. If you put grass clippings directly on your garden they will simply mat and smother your plants, but eventually they will also compost.

If you put horse manure directly in your garden, you have 1)flies, 2)seeds from oats and who knows what that will sprout, 3) a high-nitrogen item, and all in all it's not a great idea, although horse manure is in fact a great thing to get. So you mix it up with some other stuff and let it sit for the summer or bury it in the ground and simply mix it up with the dirt or find some other way of using it rather than putting the apples directly on your roses. I've planted roses in holes with a big pail of horse manure mixed up with the dirt and they are just fine.

Nitrogen fertilizer is a way of artificially getting the nitrogen that nature provides. Forests and grasslands grew for millions of years before people figured out how to get nitrogen fertilizers from oil. You don't need the fertilizer if you have sufficient compost. The plant can only use so much and the rest runs off into the drinking water.

So don't put your grass clippings in the garbage whatever you do!!!!! Mix them with "browns" like newspaper, sawdust, wood chips, dry leaves, etc. I save my leaves from the fall and mix them with kitchen scraps thru the year.

"5% organic matter is a healthy amount, but more can be used. Just don't go overboard since too much can be just as bad as too little."

This is quite wrong. There is no such thing as too much organic matter. You can plant roses in nothing but compost and they will be very happy. Soil, which is pulverized rock, provides a matrix for the roots to anchor the plant, but the business of growing the plant is effected by compost. You can go overboard in the amount of nitrogen, but carbon compounds are what defines organic matter.

If you have too much nitrogen in your compost, it will stink before it's entirely decomposed. If you have too much in your soil, you'll get great green leaves and lots of canes, but your flowers may get vegetal centers and won't be as great as your leaves. So lawn fertilizer is high in nitrogen because people want green grass.

It's another reason that you should save your clippings - you don't completely waste all the nitrogen. Not to go on a rant, but think about how stupid the process really is. Take out the native vegetation. Grade the lot, which pretty much mixes all the topsoil with the subsoils and degrades the part you want. Then plant grass that needs lots of water. Then use petrochemical fertilizer that makes it nice and green and grow tall and most of that runs off anyway. Then cut the grass down and throw it away. There is absolutely no logic whatsoever in that.

So if you're planting roses, put in all the stuff you have. Mix it with the dirt though, because it's not composted yet and you don't want it to burn your roots or mat into a grass clump. But it will all compost in place as long as you mix it up with the dirt. I've thrown in just about everything imaginable - spoiled chicken, milk, cantalope rinds, watermelon rinds, rotten tomatoes, etc. The roses are just fine.

Coffee grounds can go right on top of the garden. If you get a lot of them, they can cake up, but they disappear pretty fast so that's not even a problem.

Horse manure does not contain all that much nitrogen. The NPK of horse manure, according to most dot edu websites, is 0.70 - 0.30 - 0.60. That's less than one percent notrogen. that's less than one pound of nitrogen in 100 pounds of manure This can vary a little due to the animals diet but even on the high end it's not very much.
Compare this to garden fertilizers like 20.0-20.0-20.0 or 10.0-10.0-10.0 and you can see there's just not that much nitrogen in it. 20-20-20 contains 20 lbs of nitrogen in 100 pounds of fertilzer
Just don't place it immediately next to the rose canes as contact with it, hot or aged, can cause canker. Don't pile it in the beds, spread it around as piled manure heats up as it composts.
I put it on my beds right out of the horse. I haven't had any problems doing it. I like to put it down about 4 inches deep in the fall and let winter's rains and melting snow wash the good stuff into the soil. I then scratch what's remaining into the beds each spring when I prune and cover it with cardboard and mulch. This takes care of any weeds that might try to grow from seeds left in the manure.

I don't buy the mathematical approach to gardening. There are things we don't know, and I suspect a lot of them are hidden in the math. No matter the numbers say, good horse manure does amazing things to soil. So don't get hung up on the math. Horse manure makes bad soil bio-active.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wasthington State on horse manure.

I agree with berndoodle. You don't need to be a math expert to improve your soil by making compost. If your compost pile starts to smell you need to mix in some "browns". The most readily available browns I can think of are fallen leaves and ripped up newspaper. Avoid meats, oils, and dairy in your compost. They'll get smelly and attract animals. If the pile gets dry water it so it's like a wrung out sponge. Turn it once in a while to keep it aerated. Finally, don't compost diseased materials. You don't want to put that around your roses. Even if you don't do any of these things, you will still get compost. It will just take longer and may get a bit smelly.

tinyrose if you have space you can just make a pile and it will compost. The bigger the pile the better but 3x3 is kind of a minimum. I use cylinders made from wire fencing to enclose mine--it is a little neater than a plain pile and is cheap.

If you have a plastic garbage barrel that is getting old and broken you can cut the bottom off and use that--place it on soil so that the microbes can migrade up from the soil and speed the process.

In Southern California where it is so dry most of the year, the common compost problem is that the pile is too dry. A plastic bag over the top of the pile helps to hold in moisture. Using a bottomless plastic garbarge barrel helps hold moisture in as well. You can put the lid on loosely, not tight--you want some air to get in there.

I went to a composting class a couple of weeks ago with 100+ people and that was everyone's #1 complaint--they couldn't keep their piles moist enough. In other parts of the country that have humid summers and/or summer rain, this is not really the problem that it is here.

I dump on leftover coffee, tea, vegetable steaming water, dish rinse water instead of using clean water.
The Starbucks coffee grounds are nice because they are so moist.

The only reason I mentioned the NPK of horse manure was due to the statement made by rosesinny that it was "a high-nitrogen item" when in fact it's very low in nitrogen. Its main benefits to the soil are the organics and organisms it adds. AAMOF, most manures are low in nitrogen compared to those fertilizers that are chemical based. Even products like Milorganite (activated sewage sludge) are relatively low in nitrogen. The nitrogen in manures is more readily available to the plant so the results are quicker making some think it's higher in nitrogen.

Wow, this has turned out to be quite a thread. Maybe I can stop being a passive lurker, and put in my two cents worth. I sympathise with chilipete. He asked a simple question, and he invited a barrage of different opinions. But that's the fun of gardening - there are many ways of doing things. There are many experts out there. On the surface, it sounds like they are contradicting each other. But when you examine their collective voice, it mostly makes sense.

I have my own set of routines, ideals, practices, etc, to deal with out own poor man's soil. But enough has been said here that I do not need to go into details as to what I do. So, I will just take relevant quotes from the various posters before me:

1. "You threw compost away? Insanity!" (Mexicanhat)
True, true, true! In our garden, we need every scrap of organic material we could get our hands on. Our staple is what is the most economical and easily available in our area. It happens to be the by product of the mushroom growing industry - spent mushroom manure. However, we keep any scraps which are not diseased. We raid our neighbourhood in the fall for their bagged fall leaves. Almost all organic material can be made into good compost, except those from diseased plants. (Which is one reason we do not use our municipal compost - they do not compost sufficiently to deal with potential disease potentials). Listen to Karl carefully when he said "Never ever throw compost away. Even if it's not the best, it's better than nothing. "

2. "good soil won't happen overnight." (kr222)
That's a wise sage who said that - it's the quote of this thread. Unless you are prepared to spend $$to have someone remove your topsoil and replace with good soil. Patience and perseverance is the order of the day when it comes to working your soil. It is a long term project, with goals, objectives and timelines. But the end result - when I sink that 12 inch spade effortlessly into rich, dark, crumbly moist soil - is unimaginably satisfying. Especially where the starting point was hard packed silty clayey soil. You can dig and replace soil for your immediate plantings, but for the future planting areas, think long term, and envisage what you should do, to improve the soil. As bloominganne put it "soil quality is 95% of what makes a sucessful garden. I've got a long way to go but I'm very motivated and it just takes some time but it's worth it.". That was where I started off, back in 1996 when we moved into our current property.

3. "Composting need not be a chore. " (karl_bapst_rosenut ) Karl knows his gardening. And I agree with him on this one. Get started on composting, learn the basic principles until you are so familiar with them that they become instinctive. Then, you will find ways of generating compost with the minimum of effort.

4. "Its main benefits to the soil are the organics and organisms it adds. " (karl_bapst_rosenut on horse manure.)
(Why does Karl always seem to have the last word?) But this is the biggest truth about incorporating composts into soil. One of it's major benefits, and probably the main reason why it is so beneficial, is that it improves the soil microflora. In fact, a lot of the nutrients "locked" in organic material are not available to your plants without the actions of these microorganisms. That's why their nutrients are essentially "slow release". (except in the instance of the urea nitrogen that comes with fresh livestock manure). That's why organic materials should be applied ahead of planting time, or ahead of rapid growth periods. That's not to belittle other benefits of organic ammendments like compost - i.e. improving soil structure, aeration and moisture retentiveness.

Oh, don't forget that your compost needs to be reasonably "composted" - otherwise, the very same organisms that work those organic material will compete with your plants for available nitrogen.

Thank you all so much for helping me with my questions. I have avoided composting mostly because of ignorance and the effort involved. I am already overwhelmed with the effort of keeping my roses thriving. That said, I have always wanted to compost, so I guess it is time to start. Throwing a pile of horse manure around my rose beds doesn't seem too difficult, but steaming a batch of 150 pound lawn clippings seems tiring and might make me throw up because of the smell. Maybe I'll do a trial run of the lawn clippings and keep them way up the hill at the edge of my property.

HOOVB- how often do you put the lawn compost on your roses?

Thanks again for the very insightful information! I feel like I took a class.

Eileen

I read in an old Almanac on roses that cow manure was best. I'm going to use aged horse manure myself.

Carla

Our HD has a great composted manure- "Moo-Nure". It is not expensive and is dark and rich and has a loose, loamy texture. I highly recommend it!

chilipete, I agree with you that most of the "compost" sold at Lowe's & Home Depot is not that great.
But I also agree with the others that any compost is better than nothing.

The next time you go to Lowe's look for "Black Kow" brand composted manure.
It comes in big yellow bags with black printing.
It is excellent stuff, I highly recommend it.
Your roses will love it.

Randy

... sounds like the stuff that Buff buys at HD (Moo-Nure) is similar. So for it, you won't be disappointed.

Randy

It might not be earthy but it will improve the soil. I prefer big box compost+garden soil+ kitchen scarps.

Making ur own compost is exhausting....bugs...cats...raccoons... uneven nutrient for each plants.

Many thanks for all the replies. I got a lot more information than I was expecting. I have to make a Lowe's run today so I'll see if they carry Black Kow here.

Thanks for all the help!

This message is intrended as a "for human interest only" episode and should in no way affect any decision to use horse manure,
Several years (40) ago, my husband and I lived in another country and our home happened to be near a stable of racing horses. I was then new to roses but I felt the horse manure would be good for them and it would have been except for one thing: e racehorse trainers regularly doped the horses ( I'm not sure what with but it was some type of drugs, steroids or whatever) and the manure burnt my roses so badly that they never really .

Me again. I have read that only about 1/2 inch of cow manure per year should be added to the soil for topdressing or tilling in. Cow manure is very high in salt, and the salt can cause problems for your plants.

Of course, I read this after I had built my first garden bed with about 4" of composted cow manure on top of it several years ago. The bed eventually got better, but I do think the salt slowed everything down.

Horse manure is supposed to be lower in salt, I'm not sure about a product like Sheep and Peat.

I have also read that composting cow or horse manure actually makes the salt concentration higher in the finished product, so it's something to be aware of especially if you have lots of clay. The salt can build up to problematic levels in clay soil (which I have).

I try to balance it out by using lots of coffee grinds, leaves, old straw, composted forest products, etc. as well as reasonable amounts of horse manure.

Sheep manure is probably the best IMO. It is certainly one of the milder manures (definitely so compared to chicken). The problem with Sheep manure is finding it.......While we are on the subject, does anyone know the PH of mushroom compost? I was under the impression it was acidic, but don't remember where I got that info.

Searching "pH mushroom compost" on google.com comes up with this link from The American Muchroom Institute which says NPK of 2-1-1, pH 6.8, although Wikipedia says .7-.3-.3 and "highly alkaline".

HOOVB- how often do you put the lawn compost on your roses?

When it is finished composting. It may be 2 months, or it may be a year. It's not a set schedule type of thing. It will smell like high-quality potting mix--that is how you know it is done, by the smell.

Thanks Diane, I'm glad I asked about the PH on mushroom compost. Not the thing to be adding to neutral or alkaline soil (which ours is). That's always something to think about when adding ingredients to your compost.

Karl - you're right. But keep in mind that the horse manure is usually wet and the other stuff is dry. Dehyrated, the horse manure will have a much higher nitrogen per pound ratio.

But that's not really the point. I was just trying to get across the idea that the more organic matter you have, the better. And if it stinks, put some less stinky stuff in. I compost meat too, and if I had the courage, I'd probably compost human waste, but that's not in the plans right now.

At any rate, others have made the same point, perhaps more eloquently.

Tinyrose - horse manure directly on the top of the soil might not be your favorite solution. God bless Karl for doing it, but in my neighborhood, it just wouldn't work. Plus don't forget the important part of his post - in the spring he covers it with cardboard and mulch. That adds additional organic matter as it decomposes and it keeps down the weeds that are inevitable otherwise.

But whatever you do, don't throw out your grass clippings. Mix them up with leaves or paper or other stuff and they won't stink. I just take everything from the kitchen and it goes into the pile. Corn cobs take a long time, but eventually they break down too.

On Sept 22, 19:54 PM, Rosesinny said:

"But that's not really the point. I was just trying to get across the idea that the more organic matter you have, the better. And if it stinks, put some less stinky stuff in. I compost meat too, and if I had the courage, I'd probably compost human waste, but that's not in the plans right now."

OK, human waste might be over the top for composting, but what about dog doo? I have three dogs and they do their business in piles over the whole back yard. I have picked up the little gifts and buried them throughout the garden in the past two years with no seemingly bad effects. The fragrance of the roses seems to be quite maintained. I wonder if there may be untoward impacts of doing this down the road. Does anyone have long term experience with burying dog waste in their gardens?

I dunno about dog doo, and people poop is out of the question, but I've started grimly scooping up the chicken guano from under the guineas' cage and dumping it into the compost box. My daughter told me that some enterprising garden guru sells that stuff for ten dollars a bag. Dunno how big the bag is, but that price is about what I would like to charge if I had to scoop up poultry droppings on that scale. Maybe they go to a poultry farm?

No dog, cat, or people doo doo due to the potentially dangerous bacteria in it.

Hi Everybody,,,Funny you should talk about composting. I'm in a master gardener program in my county right now and just yesterday our lecture was all about soils, fertilizers and composting. Here are some helpful hints to "correct" or trouble shoot your compost heap if these things occur.

Problem: Cause:
Ammonia smell: Too many greens
Solution: Add more browns,mix and turn

Pile has rotten odor 1.too wet 2.pile compacted 3. food scraps exposed
Solution: mix in browns 2.turn pile to aerate 3.bury food scraps in middle of pile

Pile doesn't heat up - low temp 1.Not enuf greens 2.not enuf air 3. lack of moisture 4. pile too small
Solution: mix in greens, 2.turn pile more frequently 3. add small amounts of water 4.Build pile to be (symbold is the "v" turned so that the open mouth is on the left, don't which character to use on keyboard) greater than 1 cubic yard.

Pile attracting flies or rodents Attracted by food remains
Solution: Don't use meats or fat, bury fruit/veg scraps.

This all comes from the Univ of Calif Cooperative Extension. There isn't a website for this brochure but there is a hotline that will answer your questions at ucmastergardeners@yahoo.com,,,,Hope this helps. Nicole
Just a great program!! I'm lucky to have one of the choosen.... :)

Here's a link to an article about "green" ways to dispose of pet waste. In Alaska with all the dog lots (places where people keep their sled teams) composting the output seems to be a good idea. Apparently the Federal government is promoting the composting of dog waste: the article has a link to an USDA page on how to "doo" it.

Here is a link that might be useful: article on

I've noticed that the compost (and the top soil) at the box stores vary in quality. The cheapest stuff isn't so good, but the next brand up for just a little more money is pretty good.
Nancy