Michael, if you or someone else who has success with Malmaison and her derivatives, has room and is ordering new roses. please try Pilarcitos. Vintage and RVR have it. I grew it from Vintage for years in my old garden quite successfully. Pilarcitos is healthy, fragrant, vigorous and productive where Malmaison, both bush and climbing, are truly terrible. It would be quite interesting to see if one of you who know the clan well might be able to put a name to it, or satisfy the conjecture it is a potential sport of one of the clan members. Thanks. Kim

Pilarcitos on Vintage site: http://www.vintagegardens.com/roses.aspx?type=search&product_name=pilarcitos&product_fullclassname=&product_stdcolor=&product_colorquirk=&product_fragrance=&product_rebloom=Any&product_introducer=&product_date=&bprice=&newitem=0amp;gallonpot=0amp;saleitem=0

Here is a link that might be useful: Pilarcitos on HMF

Kim, if the plant size 5-9' given at HMF is accurate, 'Pilarcitos' is not
one of the known sports. However, the flowers closely resemble
the SdlM family, and what I can make out of the stems and foliage
wouldn't disqualify. It is a pretty one!

(using the return key :)

Michael,
I grow Mme. Cornelissen also. It is in its second summer here; it was given to me by a friend in Mississippi from his very healthy plant there. I brought it along up here just to see what would happen and because I like my friend a lot.

I thought it died last winter, but it grew back from the roots and is now finally in bloom. I don't spray and it has had almost no bs and very little mildew. It is in a very good spot, as much sun as as I have with great airflow. Others have mildewed in the same situation so I do think of it as being mildew resistant here.

That first bloom has none of the pink markings but is a pure white. Other buds are opening soon, I hope, and I'm curious to see if they have the pink markings. I've wondered if the white coloring is because of the cool night temperatures; it has been in the high 40's to mid 50s at night. It has been raining here but the bloom has not balled.

I think it is a beautiful rose.

harborrose,

I think the vivid pink striping on buds seen in some HMF photos
may be a different rose. There was some confusion about identity
in the European heritage rose gardens, leading to a pink
semi-double being called "Mme C" and Mme C being called
"Edith de Murat."

My rose is usually white with a blush center, finishing nearly pure
white in most weathers. The photos by CarpeDiem at HMF are
of the rose I am calling "Mme C."

What temperatures did you have last winter that killed the stems?
My SdlM family have been through 4-5 degrees many times with
only tip damage. (Here we have actually had a zone 7 climate for
the past 20+ years.)

Michael, your observations of the sports is very much like mine. Here in Mississippi they all look horrible during the dog days of summer but when the slightly cooler temps arrive with some rain they all perk up and look like a million dollars. This year with the extreme drought and torrid tempertures they all had lots of tip die-back but are now putting out lots of new growth with many blooms and buds. In spring they also have lots of PM but that is easily controlled with a daily spray of water.
Gean, proud your Mme C. is alive and doing well. You don't suppose I gave you a Kronprinzessin Viktoria by mistake do you? I have been known to mislabel a rose before.

Howdy, Hamp, long time no see! These roses do very well through our summers (over 90 a lot this year), but I agree they are best in the fall.

My favorite of this group is 'Mystic Beauty.' It is a lot better than SdlM for my climate.

Here are pics from last summer of the rose Hamp gave me. It bloomed very little last summer and as I said, has just started blooming now, so I am not sure what a "normal" bloom looks like. If there are distinguishing foliage or prickle differences between the KP and the MC, I can take pics. Maybe you all can tell me which one it is, then.

The coldest temps last winter were mid teens. We had a very mild 2010 summer, though, with temps rarely getting over the high 70's. The same this summer, and the low last night was 37 degrees; frost already on the car windshield.

I wonder if the lack of summer heat somehow affects the teas and this bourbon's ability to deal with winter cold? There are about 5 buds and one open bloom on MC this morning. Maybe I should pinch them off.

{{gwi:311331}}

{{gwi:311332}}

Those photos are definitely Mme C. showing her characteristic (but not necessarily constant) coloration, and her somewhat disheveled petal placement. I find her lack of refinement to be among her charms, altho some early rose fanciers saw it as a fault.

In 1889, the Journal des Roses printed these comments about Mme C: " . . . white flowers plumed pink . . . poorly formed and often inconstant." I not sure if the "inconstant" refers to color, form or both.

As jaxondel said, Gean's rose is definitely Mme C, or the rose
generally accepted as Mme C. However, the centers are usually
better organized, and the fully open flower forms a fairly normal
OGR rosette. Another oddity, the flower shrinks noticeably as
it ages in the vase.

Gean said, "I wonder if the lack of summer heat somehow
affects the teas and this bourbon's ability to deal with winter
cold?" Yes, I can't think of any other reason why these roses
have always been considered only marginally hardy in zone 8-9
England. Jon said he thought that heat ripened the canes
in some way that promoted hardiness. It seems counter-intuitive,
though.

Michael, the only one I don't have is Mystic Beauty. I don't know if I could stand it if she's better than SdlM.
Ditto what the others say Gean, that is definitely Mme C.
I have really downsized my garden (roses) this year due to the thrips problem. I'm getting too old and impatient to deal with problem roses if you know what I mean. I've shovel pruned over 40 problem roses and planted three crape myrtles and 4 different altheas (Rose of Sharon). I never thought I'd see the day I'd plant a crape myrtle.

Why is there always another rose that I feel I can't live without? This year I finally sited Souv. De la Malmason and Souv de St. Anne properly. They've been wonderful in all ways. In between them I'm growing my own bourbon Susan Byers, a seedling of Madme Isaac. She started life struggling but now she's beautiful and reblooms faily well.

Hamp, if balling is not a problem in your hot climate, then 'Mystic Beauty' is merely as good as SdlM, not better, because partial resistance to botrytis is the only significant difference. In my climate, MB is easily the best of all repeating OGR that I know. She is gorgeous right now, covered with perfect, fragrant, 4"-5" SdlM blooms.

Imagine what Jean Beluze must have felt when his seedling opened the first of these amazing flowers circa 1844.

Harborrose,

Those photos perfectly capture the blooms of 'Mme Cornelissen' as they often appear on my two plants.

Both pics would be valuable additions to HMF. I hope you'll consider placing them there.

Thanks, Windeaux, I did and added another one. This was taken the last of July, 2010 after a little more summer heat.

Hamp, crepe myrtles are a rare and wondrous plant up here...!

{{gwi:311333}}

Harborrose, Your Mme C photos just keep getting better . . . Thanks for posting them here & at HMF.

I am on the west coast, but in a hot and dry part of it, and SdlM, Madame C and Kronprinzessin Viktoria all love it here. No spring mildew when others are mildewing their hearts out, blooms all summer, and almost no disease even though I water mostly in the evenings. For these beauties it really is a matter of location, location, location (as Jeri loves to say who apparently has no luck with them at all). I won't say that Mme. Cornelissen is more beautiful than SdlM overall but there are days when she seems more glorious to me. Her petal formation is almost unique and the more nuanced coloration does seem more interesting to me than the uniformly pink SdlM. But really, they're all winners (uh, in the right location).

Ingrid

Thanks Michael, (I think) for bringing another "must have" rose to my attention. Now, to find one...

Michael, Thanks. I called RU and ordered Mme C (Edith de Murat). I'll get it in the spring.

Pat said it's one of her favorites. (I wonder how many "favorites" she has...)

Michael, long time, no talk to. Mme. Cornelissen is my runaway favorite of all the SDLM sports in my climate, rivaling the grand old lady herself for bloom. I did get some winter dieback the last 2 winters when we hit 5 degrees in dry weather but they recovered quickly and made the heat and drought of 115 degrees extended here this summer without much trouble. My OGRs in general have fared much better that the moderns with the weather and the sports of SDLM have done extremely well.

Hi, Kaye! Capt. Dyel has struggled a bit but currently has several splendid flowers that I'm really enjoying, thanks to you. Mme C is indeed a tremendous bloomer.