Price and selection. Especially selection. Even my really huge local nursery in the Rose City never carries Comtesse du Cayla.

The way I figure is try and find what you want locally first and if that doesn't work, THEN mail order. I mail ordered my tomato seed this year because the plants and seed selection offered locally was completely generic and uninspired.
As for roses, we are blessed to have Cedar Hollow Rose Farm just up the highway about half an hours drive away. They do have mail order as they propagate their own organically grown own-root roses but since they are driving distance...why mail order?

I have to agree with triple_b. I ALWAYS try locally first. But if you live someplace that does not have box stores then you must resort to mail order if your local stores don't have what you want. I have had more success this year with the nursery in our town for ordering what I wanted which was very satisfying. But I don't intend to give up on Heirloom Roses or David Austin to settle for what they have locally exclusively. It has to be a mix of both.

Kate

Most of the roses in my garden are not available locally--not because my roses are that rare (Earth Song, for instance)but because the local garden centers sell only standard HT selections and Knock Outs. I don't think they would even know what I was talking about if I asked them if they carried any Austins. No one I've ever talked to in this town about roses has any idea what an Austin is.

I didn't take rose gardening seriously until I discovered all the online sources.

Kate

Because Jungs doesn't carry Delbards. Yes, Jungs in my local nursery. There are a couple of other places but they mostly have either Weeks or JP roses and only a couple of Austins here and there. If I want anything different I have to spend a lot of time and energy figuring out that no one has it, or I can save myself the trouble and order it. Heck, this year I couldn't even find Melody Parfume anywhere. My order list for next year includes Melody since I couldn't find it anywhere, more Delbards from Ashdown since I love the ones I got this spring, and more Kordes from Palatine since their roses are so very nice. I still buy a lot of roses locally because it is hard to beat seeing a rose and smelling it in person.

Ditto to what Kate said. Here in the Lansing area, there are any number of good nurseries and a dozen big box stores and they carry less than 1% of the varieties I have or want to have. Sheesh, if I could buy locally, why would I mail order?

The local nurseries have a limited assortment of J&P and Weeks roses on Dr. Huey rootstock. Wrong rootstock for my acidic clay soils. And they aren't interested in the few own roots roses that JP offered.
I did talk to the rosarian at one local nursery; a newly retired transplant from New York state told me all about how winter coverage was a necessity and had never heard of RRD. I just walked away, because there was multiflora sick with RRD within a mile of that nursery.

I haven't bought roses locally for a number of years. Reasons? I prefer buying what I want to as opposed to pick up a few roses from the very limited supply offered locally. In addition, just as important selection & variety are, the rootstock is very important to me. I prefer multiflora as rootstock and no local nursery offers roses budded/grafted on multiflora.
Some local nurseries buy from small growers because those are cheap but the varieties are the same as in the box stores while those roses are worse: they scream RMV before I could approach them. I doubt that the nursery owner knows what RMV is, otherwise she would not display that many roses with 'variegated' foliage. Around here local nurseries do not offer own root roses either.
Finally, these smaller nurseries do not offer bare root plants at all; they grow, feed (overfeed) their roses that they market for MotherÂs Day. I do not like to plant roses that late since we usually have hot temperatures and dry weather by May. These roses are blooming but often have serious canker, because in these nurseries the personnel do not know much about rose care.

My attitude may be different if we had nurseries specialized in roses locally but we donÂt.

Hum...well I only have about a dozen roses..We get a nice number of different kinds here in Seattle. But I do agree that there are many you guys talk about that I never heard of. Like Buck roses for example. I guess my roses knowledge is growing or I would never have even gotten this far to ask the question!

I will buy from nurseries or box stores if they have roses that I am looking for. Will not buy anything I have not researched or no nothing about. If the roses I am looking for cannot be purchased locally, then I find out which mail order growers have them and order accordingly.(Catalogues give more information on the roses you are interested in)

This year I finally did mail order. I ordered from Chamblee's (two David Austins) and from Edmunds (three floribundas). The Chamblee's roses were very small but original rootstock and one of them is rather sickly still. I've even called and talked to the owner about it. Will most likely have to get a replacement for it (Sophy's Rose). The Edmunds order was a complete fiasco. One of the roses came with root gall and since they were all intermingled in the packaging, all three had to get replaced. When Edmunds did so, the roses they sent were improperly packaged; the roots had dried out.

Fortunately, I have a couple of great nurseries near me and Heirloom Roses is just down the road a piece. From now on, I plan to purchase mostly from the nurseries -- unless it is absolutely something I must have yet, is a rare rose. You are able to pick the healthiest rose yourself and have so much more control over the situation. I must just be one of those picky rose people. Good Luck! CJ

Zyperiris, I was just wondering what roses you grow? I know that some areas have big nurseries that offer a large assortment of hybrid teas and even a few Austin's and OGR's but the nurseries here offer a limited number of hybrid teas grafted on Dr. Huey. The happy thing is that I live about half way between Roses Unlimited and Ashdown.

Carol

I have gotten some roses locally (locally in this sense means within 40 miles of me). As a matter of fact, if it hadn't been for the local Agway (only 5 miles away), I probably wouldn't have gotten into roses. That is where I saw and bought Peace, Helen Hayes and Arizona. I recently got Zephirine Drouhin, a Knock Out and Oklahoma from there also. I bought Double Delight, Moondance, Sheila's Perfume, Chicago Peace, Honor, and Soaring Spirits from other nurseries within my 40 mile "local" area.

However, I have never seeen a mini at any of the nurseries. Nor have I seen any rugosas other than the generic pink or white ones (no names - which I have had for 15 years). They offer nothing but HT's, a couple floribundas and Knock Outs .

I have gone mail order to get minis, Gallicas, Albas, stiped rugosas and Bracteata. Believe me, I support my local nurseries well, especially the local Agway. I buy so much there I get a discount on just about everything. However, they can't possibly carry everything that I might be interested in, so I go outside when I need to find something different.

zyp, I think you'll find that as you get more into roses, you will look for the ones that nurseries don't sell and you will order on line. I do both. In fact, I have a white shrub rose that I am in love with. It's one of those no-name roses I got in Home Depot,(actually it's 'name' is Lasting Embrace, but it's not registered anywhere). It's got great form, great blooms and blooms it's dang head off! It must have 50 buds on it now. And I just happened to be in HD and wanted a white rose and it was there. And I paid $20 for it, which is a lot for a HD rose.

But the nurseries are limited in what they sell, especially OGRs and Austins. And you don't know the root stock most of the time. So when you get serious, you go mail order.

We only have two good nurseries here. One sells Hortico roses, and they arrive late, so he sells them late. (Canadian roses are not ready for early planting in Oklahoma), the other nursery has a wonderful reputation, and to keep it, they sell only after May 1. They want to be sure they don't have to pay for freeze damage that could occur here.

I want to decide when I am going to plant my roses, and also want the Buck roses as opposed to J&P. I would much prefer to support Chamblees, Antique Rose Emporium, and Ashdown to our local nurseries that won't even order the ones I want.

Sammy

I would love to buy from my local nursery, but they don't have much of a selection of roses. Mostly Knockouts, rugosas, and some HTs along with the same Austins every year (of which I already have all of them). They also keep stocking the same varieties that I know from experience don't do well around here. Then, by June, all the roses for sale are covered in blackspot.

When I have bought container roses from them, they seem to need an extra 2 years before they catch up to bareroot roses I plant at the same time. You'd think it'd be the other way around. I think the roses being sold are Weeks and/or Star. Their root systems are probably smaller than good-quality bareroots.

I am lucky in that I have Great Lakes Roses and a few other nurseries around here that have a pretty good selection. One even orders their roses from Pickering. If I can find it locally I'll buy it. Otherwise, its Moores, Ashdown, Hortico, etc.

"Canadian roses are not ready for early planting in Oklahoma)"

Sammy, are you sure that this statement is true of all Canadian nurseries?

I grant you that Hortico sends tiny plants but Pickering usually sends very good ones and Palatine's roses would put all "Edmunds' giants" to shame. Maybe you should try Palatine or Pickering to see the difference. I plant those roses in early-to-mid February and they do very well for me.

Ceterum, that was a rushed and inaccurate statement from me. Sorry. What I meant to say is that I gave a special order to a Rose Nursery in my city. I specified that I wanted to receive the roses by March 15. Roses that he ordered from Chamblees in Texas were ready to be sold, and large and strong enough for Chamblees to ship. Roses that the nursery ordered from Canada (Hortico) were not shipped to him until May, and they were not ready for me to purchase.

A local CR told me that I should not buy from Canada, but from Texas, because people who bought from Canada lived in colder regions and did not want their roses until much later in the year. She said that Canadian nurseries were not prepared to sell the middle of March because people living in colder regions were not ready to plant for two more months. On the other hand people in Texas, Oklahoma, and surrounding areas wanted to get their roses in the ground early, just like me, and they bought from more southern nurseries rather than northern.

I realize that this was a broad statement because whether it be Canada or Texas, they may all grow in greenhouses where they can control the temperatures.

If I order locally, I have no control over when I will receive the roses. I want to plant during my spring break. If I order from the two Texas nurseries, they will send the roses when I want them. (I must watch out for ARE because they let my roses sit for the weekend in a truck since the company doesn't work on the weekends. From now on I am going to request that my roses from them leave their store on Monday.)

Sammy

Well, I live in Michigan and get my roses from Hortico in late March or early April. I think some people get them even earlier in warmer states.

Sammy, if you order from Pickering or Palatine direct (no middle-men) you will get your roses when you want them. Both companies ship for fall planting and then they ship from January on. It may be a week delay if you asked for ground shipping (as opposed to air)and the temperatures are very cold up north but other than that they keep the schedule you agreed on with them. Pickering ships almost weekly and Palatine ships when they have enough order to ship at a given date- Palatine is new on the American market but the more order they get the more flexible they can be in shipping. However, They did ship in March in 2007 as far as I remember. All roses by these Canadian companies are harvested in late fall so the story your nursery told you about Canadian roses or nurseries is misleading.

Hortico is an entirely different ball game - they never ship when they promise to do so because they never know when they get their roses in (they use too many growers it seems) plus they can send tiny twigs, again, I guess a consequence of their not growing their own crop.

However, Palatine and Pickering do grow their own plants so they know by late fall what they have and when they can ship.

Sammy, can you tell us if your local place gets the bareroots and pots them up so that you are picking up potted plants from them? Or, are they reselling bareroots to you?

As the others have noted, if you order directly from Pickering or Palatine, you definitely can receive and plant in March. I always order from Pickering to get them in mid-March. Last year I ordered a little late from Palatine and received them in early April, but for next year I will request mid-March delivery.

Ordering from a Canadian company has no bearing on where their customers are located or when the product is delivered, I don't understand how that thought process developed.

To answer the OT:
1. I prefer multiflora rootstock.
2. I grow varieties that are not carried locally and never will be.

Our local nurseries specialize in roses that don't survive our winters. I used to wonder if this was intentional, resulting as it does in more sales year after year. But I think it's just ignorance. I met a local grower this year who is interested in roses, but he's the first. The others seem to be into other things: annuals, daylilies, evergreens, whatever. They put in an order to their supplier, probably asking for nothing more specific than "roses." So they get a few HTs grown in Texas and lots and lots of Knockouts. Not what I want.

Same answer, variety. There are thousands of roses. How many can a local nursery carry. It isn't cheaper when you consider shipping. Regarding shipping from Canada. It's possible that there is a concern by some Canandian nurseries shipping in the winter because the roses need to be transported when it's cold there and possibly enroute, even if the destination is warm. Just a thought.

I must say I don't have too many local nurseries left in my neck of the woods. My biggest nursery right now is Sheridan Nursery. They try to sell as many but still don't have a lot.They some times just sell the basics, for example Knockout, New Dawn, Tiffany, Peace. But would not see a Heaven on Earth or Ebb Tide. Plus the prices can be overwhelming ranging from 16.99 to 19.99. I would much rather order from a mail order company where I get a larger selection of different varieties of roses that is new, old or have never heard of. And the price isn't too bad either.
They also sells roses that do not make it back the next spring.
Since I started getting serious about growing roses, I always check to see if its gonna survive in my zone.
Niecey

You folks sound alot like the guys in the tomato growers forum. They are (almost) all about the heirloom tomatoes, many of which the masses had never heard of or seen before. Folks think that tomatoes are round and red, period. They know the names Beefsteak, Cherry, and Roma. Show them something like a ripe Cherokee Purple and they may recoil in horror and not even want to taste it, although tomatoes don't taste much finer than that.
You rose afficiandos and the tomato gourmets are kindred spirits and you don't even know it.

Off Topic....
Triple b, Speaking of tomatoes, what about Yellow Boy.
I have 10 plants of Yellow Boys growing in my garden.
Niecey

Ahem,
From the land of Cherokee Purple, where the best modern eatin' tomatoe is Celebrity, and where our county's claim to fame is our Tomatoe Festival, yep, we know heirloom tomatoes as well as passalong seeds.
I just wish that half the houses that have rows of 'mater plants would have one or two roses. But the local sellers of potted and blooming roses keep selling JFK, something pink, and something red, and Knockout hasn't even really caught on, except among a few.

Tomato growers are a passionate lot as well ;o)

Ann, I would LOVE to go to a tomato festival!

Niecey, yellow tomatoes are great. They have less acid and are therefore easier on the tummies of those who normally have to steer clear of tomatoes for the acid content. They also look beautiful in salads or on a mixed platter with other colored tomatoes.

Tomatoes are my other growing love. While roses give you long term gratification, tomatoes give you yummy fruits and general bliss all in one growing season. It is a good balance.

I have a little yellow 'mater that I picked this morning sitting right in front of me. I can't decide on a Florida peach or my tomato for a snack. Maybe I can go find some fresh mozzarella and have my little guy with it and some basil from the front yard...

Locally we have an annual tomato growing contest at the Botanical Gardens that draws a big crowd. Winners get a spread in the following Wednesdays paper showing their winning entries and tomato recipes are included.

Personally I am a mini mater fan with yellow pear being my fav, but I'm test driving some supersweet 100s as well. One of my co-workers keeps us well supplied in cherokee purples and brandywines. I have two large pots dedicated to my minis the rest are dedicated to raspberries and roses. :)

OT: I buy my annuals locally at the nursery and my roses mail for the same reasons stated above.

I buy my tomato seeds for the reasons listed above. Our local selection of plants and seeds is about as uninspired as they get. I REALLY wanted to grow a lovely orange one called Nebraska Wedding but could not find it for sale in Canada. I checked all the sites of seed companies online that I could so finally I ordered from Seed Savers Exchange out of Iowa. They are doing well but the big monsters are two plants called "Hillbilly". Like roses, tomatoes have some really catchy names that just make you want them for that reason alone. Sure hope they taste good.

I will remember those nurseries for next year.

I place my order with a local Rose Nursery and paid up front around $300.00. He ordered from Hortico, and they did not arrive when I requested. The owner kept stalling me a week or two at a time - saying he had spoken to this and that person and yadda yadda yadda. Finally when I decided to cancel the order, the other nurseries had sold out of what I wanted. When the order arrived the first of May, the roses were very very small. So instead of getting what I wanted, he offered me some of his J&P roses.

I did not want to hurt his feelings, and ended up getting hybrid teas and floribundas that I didn't want.

I did not order from him this year, but my experience with him, and his excuses about Hortico gave me the impression that all Canadian nurseries grew their roses late because the planting time in Canada was later than in Tulsa.

I don't remember if they were own root that he rooted since I didn't end up buying many of them.

I will put Palantine and Pickering in my Favorites to examine when I think about ordering for next year.

By July the Hortico roses looked ok, but too much time would have been wasted. It is nice to understand why the Hortico roses were so small.

Sammy

I think I know who you mean Sammy. Doesn't surprise me. Anyone can sell plants, but it takes a person with some "business sense" to be successful long term for both themselves and their customers. Everyone thinks they have "business sense" right up until they are forced to close their doors....As for Pickering and Palantine et al, they may be great but AGAIN I complain about their minium order of 3 plants. If you just want one rose,you have room for only one rose,you don't like any of their other roses, you still have to order 3 plants. Sometimes their "business sense" works against me (LOL).

I have no trouble finding three plants to get from Palatine. Their roses are huge, and very healthy. Sunsprite looks like a real rose bush now while most of my other roses are half the size. My hortico roses were tiny compared to the Palatine monsters and have not done nearly as well (one died, two are still very small).

Here we plant cherry tomatoes and it takes till September fot them to be ready.

Okay, I SP some roses last fall. Here is what I have now..A old Queen Elizabeth, Jean Giono a Romantica, Lynn Anderson, Moonstone, Full Sail, Strike it rich, Sheila's perfume, Macho Man, Ballerina, Evelyn, and Julia Child, and three minatures. The Macho man I am proud of. I planted it in a shady spot that doesn't drain well. Then ignored it for two years. Darned if it isn't trying to live.

Alot of people living on the coast have greenhouses to make sure their tomatoes ripen and not rot from too much rain. The coast certainly seems more rose-friendly than tomato friendly.

Sammy, from what I hear, Hortico has issues with delivery even if you order directly from them. Those who do know the risk (usually) and takes their chances, because in many cases Hortico is the only vendor for a variety. People have waited years.

I still swoon over my Palatine roses, they were phenominal and they are still going strong (even if I am being a slacker in getting them into larger pots or into the ground).

I rarely have to special order. Between rose society raffles, auctions, nurseries and bulk mini orders for society fund-raisers, I've got roses out the ying-yang. I don't buy roses at Lowe's or HD. I can get better specimens at lower prices from my favorite nursery that orders in some 7000 bareroots every year. A couple miles from that nursery is ANOTHER nursery carrying about 7000 bareroots. Now that's my idea of a weekend gettaway. No husband or kids gonna volunteer for that kind of shopping. The owners of these nurseries also grow roses and they'll special order batches for us upon request when we guarantee the sale.

The selection of OGR's is pretty dismal but I throw an order in with other rosarians and share the shipping charges.

My biggest problem with mail-order is that some of them won't ship during winter and my bareroot season is January. Anything after Feb 15 better be fully leafed out before March 15th as it can be 100F before month-end. Sure get jealous when I see all these great offers on all these beautiful roses during July.

CATALOGS, CATALOGS, CATALOGS! A big reason to mail-order, all those glorious and exotic pics! There is very little selection here. I did get a kick out of going to a local nursery this month and looking at all the HTs that were decimated by BS. I looked at the tags making sure those roses were not on my possibles list for fall :) But, I love to dream over my catalogs on rainy days, and miserably hot days, and times when I am bored, etc. I just ordered the Vintage catalog and I hope it will provide hours of pleasure. Given that it is 15.00, I expect a whopper of a catalog. Brandy
P.S. I prefer to order clothing too! Ah, the convenience of trying it on in the comfort of one's own home.

Ahhh nothing like a nice thick issue of some Rose Porn.

Zyperiris, I think you do make a good point, about supporting local nurseries, which usually are locally owned, and tend to employ local people. However, local in an urban area and local in a small town are two different things. Where I live, if you want anything not on the list of what J& P or Monrovia is promoting this year, mail order is the only recourse. I buy from the locals for basic plants, herbs, vegetables, etc, in preference to the big boxes; the locals at least water their plants, and have even been known to repot.

The best mail order nurseries tend to be labors of love by dedicated amateurs--Vintage Gardens, Sequoia, Forest Farm, Northland Rosarium etc., etc., and, they, too, deserve some of our garden dollars. I buy from them special plants not available locally.

I have nothing to do with the large mail order houses.

I just ordered from Vintage, Morning Dawn, Cherryade, Saratoga, and Sunbonnet--all cultivars I doubt the nurserypeople down the street have ever heard of.

Gosh that's a good point..mail order need business too. I was sad to that the Uncommon Rose is gone.

I've lived in the Philadelphia & Boston areas and I've never seen a nursery/garden center sell any of the early blooming yellow roses (such as Canary Bird, or Father Hugo's rose, or Harrison's Yellow), or any of the Ramblers that carry the big June flush into July, or the Albas, or more than one or two of the species (if that), or, or, or......