Well, I only have Mermaid that fits your criteria. I have not watered Mermaid in the four years I have lived here and it is very vigorous even without irrigation. I get an average of 15" rain annually and a good bit of marine influence according to Sunset. I do mulch. Does not need deadheading. It is pale yellow and fits your time frame as far as date of intro. Shiny, abundant and very healthy foliage. Mean prickles, yes. Depending on how much rose you want, a firm hand with the Felcos is a necessity. Cool plant.

Anne

Anne,

I would like to plant a number of roses, but Mermaid scares me...lol I will water to get established and in case of obvious heat stress. It is an easy place to run a drip system.

From what I've read, Sombrueil, Cl. is no pussy cat either :-)

Anne

Out of all you have listed, and others have already suggested, the only one which fits all of your laundry list is Cl. Cecile Brunner. If you want the one which flowers repeatedly, either obtain Spray Cecile Brunner which can be trained into a 15' climber with time, or buy the repeat flowering Cl. Cecile from Heirloom. It's pastel, rarely needs dead heading, it's rudely healthy in these parts, it's wonderfully scented; it is extremely shade tolerant; very durable and "water wise" once established in comparison to many others.

Mermaid is wonderful but not highly scented and a real aggressive grower. Otherwise, it fits the list. Duchesse d'Auerstadt is gorgeous but not heavily scented and not terribly shade tolerant.

By "wall" do you mean free standing in front of the fence, or climbing ON the fence? If it's in front as bushes, Perle d'Or is great as is Grandmother's Hat. Both fit all of your requirements and can get tallish with light pruning. Kim

Well, you can't go wrong with Mrs. B. R. Cant. Just the right size.

If Mrs. Dudley Cross is tall enough for you, she might be an even better choice. Maybe Climbing Queen Elizabeth can hulk and skulk in the background, with Mrs. Cross covering her legs. The advantage would be the severe injuries QE would inflict on fence-jumpers.

If it were me, I'd plant some sort of conifer, with climbing roses positioned to grow up and out of the trees. I keep doing that, and we keep selling our houses before the the plantings mature.

Does Arizona Cypress do well there? The foliage has a wonderful medicinal smell. My Best Friend planted some in proximity to a collection of roses with fruity fragrances - and Tuberoses - and Jasmines. The combination was really nice. She'd find young mothers with strollers at her gates, faces pressed through the wrought iron, smelling the garden (of course, she'd invite them in...).

Anyway, maybe Arizona Cypress interwoven with rampant/extra-fragrant climbers? Or is such an oily tree considered a fire hazard there?

Mrs. Dudley Cross is a huge favorite in South Texas, and was passed around long before antique roses came into vogue. So, I'd assume cuttings are fairly easy to root. That one is frequently found at abandoned homesteads, and so can take care of herself, if need be.

Of what's on your list, in my experience, Perle d'Or and Mrs. B.R. Cant would meet most or all of your list. Even to me, a rather lax gardener with good selective vision skills, some of those teas need deadheading (Souv. de Pierre Notting, Niles Cochet), but MBRC's petals fall cleanly enough and soon enough to not be an eyesore (I don't deadhead mine). I don't know about Anna Olivier or Lady Roberts on that score.

Gilbert Nabonnand is off my list forever, being such a relentless and heavy mildewer that he looked like he had been heavily frosted even in the middle of August. That went on for years and he never got better. Mrs. Dudley Cross was not quite so ugly, but also had abundant mildew most of the time. "Water-wise" conditions would probably exacerbate propensity for mildew.

Sombreuil was tough, very thorny, and reached for the rafters and beyond, with naked legs. Removed due to house renovations, but I would consider him again, in the right situation.

Expanding upon the conifer idea....Dodonea viscosa or Hopseed Bush. Fast growing, available in either bronze or green and extremely "torture friendly". Allowed to do their own thing, they make a large flame shaped bush. You can shear and hedge them to your heart's content when they will dense up and become a very manicured, dense privacy hedge. Extremely tolerant of aridity and no water once established, yet Sunset Western Garden Book says they grow well in flower beds. They aren't "trees" so there aren't massive roots with which to deal. The "hopseed" name arose when it was discovered the seed pods could be substituted for hops in making beer. I planted them here to replace sixty year old oleanders the Leaf Scorch took out. They're beautiful texturally as well as in color. I've even seen them tortured into topiaries quite successfully.

The best part is you can find them all over the place at some very attractive prices. In your area, even one gallon plants might work as they do grow very quickly, but five gallon, staked specimen suitable for hedging are also commonly available. You might like them. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Dodonea viscosa at San Marcos

Thanks Kim,

Those are pretty, but do you know what parts of the plant are considered poisonous? Might not be good around chickens or young children (the neighbors are busy "medicating" while watching their toddlers so don't want to accidentally poison their kids. It is the smell of the "medication" that I would like to mask if possible)

Thanks Cats

I hope one of my cuttings of Perle d'Or takes, I was planning on putting that one there. And good to know about Sombreuil getting so large! I had thought to put it on a small arch by the house. Guessing that might be good at the hedge row too. And I will make a note about GN-don't need mildew, thought I will note that the glads that rusted so horribly by the house were 100% clean down there.

My idea would be several roses that could grow together and fill the zone and not so much one single plant. I was thinking it would be a good place for larger antiques since they can stretch their arms down there. I thought to maybe balance some of the once bloomers with a few that bloom in flushes. Ideally, I would be able to bring in a few for bouquets as well.

I am not worried about the neighbors climbing over that part of their fence, it is so rotten and eaten up that it would fall before they can reach the top. I have a Felicite et Perpetue at the hop over corners already. We have our own chain link fence that any rose could climb or rest of if they needed, but can also be self supporting.

I might think about hedging plants a bit more, it is too far from the house to trim with my electric trimmers and I don't use gas powered equipment (one lung is very sensitive to petroleum products after an injury) So any hedge would have to be self limiting in height.

Thanks

So that's what it's called. Hopseed bush was planted along the path near a new development near to me. I've been admiring it for over a year now.

Crepuscle, Mrs Alfred Carrier, Rosa Moschata (Musk Rose), Annie Laurie McDowell, Sally Holmes--all shade-tolerant, scented, fairly continuous blooms, disease resistant. Any other hybrid musks or noisettes. Also Mutabilis.

Mermaid is too big, aggressive, thorny. QE is tall but gets naked legs. Mosieur T is Yes, and Teas in general.

Rogue Valley Roses is good ad cloest to you. Roses Unlimited is excellent, but the shipping will cost you.

Per the FDA Poisonous Plant Database, it was toxic to dairy cattle. See link below. It is ALL over the place here because it is the "Iceberg" of hedging plants. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: FDA Database

Would super Dorothy or Peggy Martin do well here?

The more I think about a hedge, the less I think that is what I really want to do down there. Funny story, the old guava hedge that I have chopped back hard is looking great. I carefully gave it a very soft trimming to keep it in a more natural rounded style. I was very happy with how it looked. My guy, who likes a very different style, came to town and first thing he noticed was that my hedge had no sharp corners and offered to help me with how to use string lines and ladders to create the ideal hedge. Thinking I had better not hand him the hedge trimmers....and that adding more hedge will just bug him more because of the missing hard lines.

Kippy, if you want larger flowers in "less harsh" colors, you might want to consider either Renae or Annie Laurie McDowell. Both are wonderfully scented, vitually without prickles, continuous flowering, shade tolerant and absolutely in love with most of our SoCal climates. Plus, both are much less "harsh" colored than either Super Dorothy or Peggy Martin. The latter is planted on a pergola at The Banning Mansion where the color is rather "hard". Of course, that is personal taste, but something you might want to consider. Kim

Thanks for the input Kim!

I am on the list for Annie, but she is far too special to be banished to the lower 40 :) I have a prime spot or two that I have been keeping her in mind-And Renae is not too far away.

I really should not look at the roses other people mention on other threads....lol

Kippy I would go for two kinds and let them grow together. Something like MAC or Lamarque with Renae alternating. Or what about Cl Cecile B and some kind of other rose to add perfume? If I had that much room I would go for 2 and mix them together down the fence.

In the peach to buff, to orange and red color range with pink;
'Anna Olivier' is the strongest scented Tea, that I have ever smelled and I've had the joy of smelling every Tea at Vintagegardens.com home garden and S.J.H.R.G..
Crepescule' trumps 'Perle d'or for fragrance, and in our garden is more resistant to disease. All year it is nearly clean.
-Monsieur Tillier, which is very disease resistant in my garden where conditions favor p.m. over blackspot.
I can only detect a light fragrance from the last two.
I have loved Mlle. Cecille Brunner' longer than any other rose, both my grandmother and mother grew it and I have the original form, the spray form as well as the climbing form. The spray form does bloom far more than the climbers. I detect a strong fragrance, of damask rose with a tiny bit of black pepper as a scent note finish from all of them. except the white sport, which smells more like a floral blend with a touch of lemon.
with 10 feet left of the spread, I would plant a
'Grandmothers Hat' for fragrance, it has a very resistance to disease, here.
In cool weather this rose produces gorgeous lilac-pink blooms with the mauve tint being stronger. It has a long bloom season and the quickest re-bloom of any H.P. I've ever seen or grown.
Oh what fun, to have so much room still available.

I only water my mature Tea and Tea-Noisette roses c. twice a month in spring and autumn and 3 times a month in the hottest weeks of summer. I don't water them at all in winter, because we get a good amount of rain, usually, during that season.
When they are mature sized plants,
-the partial shade will lessen the amount of water you need to use.
-adding 4"+ of mulch to the bed, (kept a couple inches away from the base of the canes, ) will also lessen the amount of water you use on rosebushes. I often forget to water my Teas and I've never seen their leaves droop, which would indecate dehydration.

Lux.
P.S.
I placed a 'Mermaid' in my backyard against a fence where I have espaliered her size within bounds to where she will grow to be
4 and 1/2 feet from the fence outwards, and I've given her an allotment of 25' width. I adore this rose.

Thanks Lux

I hope to plant a variety down there, because it has been the last place we cleaned up and the source of my fill dirt, it looks pretty sad. But I have been hauling loads of "used hay" to soften the soil applied several inches thick (will have 6 more cans worth tomorrow) that will be covered with wood chips. And I will attach a drip line for that zone.

I am going to put my Crepescule up closer to the house, I think she is so pretty, I could put a Grandmothers Hat where I planned on putting Mme Berkeley and put her down there instead.

It is fun to have that spot and not be limited to needing smaller sized roses. (not that I want giants just big girls)

This post was edited by Kippy-the-Hippy on Wed, Aug 14, 13 at 1:09

I think I will start with Mme Berkeley down there (she is going to get potted up to a 5g and wait for fall), I had planned on putting her in a different spot, but I think I will put a second Grandmothers Hat there instead.