Taoseeker stated: "It would be interesting to compare a few old varieties with the heat treated ones." I am not sure if you are refering to what what I think you are. If you are interested in whether a virused but then heat treated plant does better or worse than one of the same variety that was never virused, this is my response. Plants are very complex, it is possible that the virus and / or the heat treatment may have affected other mechanisms (could be positive or negative). There are many types of examples but since a very recent (2009) example of the "expression of heat stress proteins" has been studied in a rose, I will present that example. The actual research paper is very technical. The paper is at the following link: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=6203748 Rather than looking at the specific details most readers would probably benefit more from the following summary of the field: http://www.cspp.cn/Annual2009/upload/pub09.pdf Please notice the statement: "It is known that rapid heat hardening can be elicited by a brief exposure of cells to sub-lethal high temperature, which in turn provides protection from subsequent and more severe temperature." This does not "prove" that heat treated roses will have better heat resistance. Maybe a longer term of high temperature will result in other effects (positive or negative). I am presenting this to indicate that one cannot assume that other variables are being held constant. It is possible that effects may not show up till years later. Some "cured" polio victims are now finding that many years later problems related to the polio are appearing. -------------------------- The effects of a virus infection can be very unexpected. The following link discusses the observed effect of a virus on aphid population (not done on roses): http://www.springerlink.com/content/uw13564v21223876/ I have posted several times about my experince with a virused Culbert Grant from Pickering. Up to then my best Climber was Illusion. This new Culbert Grant bloomed and grew much better than Illusion all summer. I was very excited. That winter I received a letter from Pickering that it was virused and that they were pulling it off the market. That spring it was dead. Scientists at Cornell University surveyed approximately 2500 roses by visible assessment. They found that 166 had virus symptons: http://www.actahort.org/books/234/234_53.htm From the abstract, it does not appear that anything unusual was observed, but from the full paper a number of unexpected results were reported such as: "Total flower cut weight and total number of flower cuts with nonsymptomatic foliage was greater from PNRSV (severe) inoculated rose plants than from healthy control plants. The data revealed also that PNRSV (severe) and ApMV (severe) inoculated plants outyielded the PNRSV (mild) inoculated plants, which in turn outyielded the healthy tissue inoculated plants. These results were unexpected since reduced yields would be anticipated from virus infections." They then discuss some "maybes. one of these is: "Another speculation is that the initial stage of viral infection stimulates host metabolism by competing and utilizing the host ribonucleic acid polymerases for ita viral replication." i.e. The virus infection may be causing the rose to grow better. ----------------------------------------------- The following non rose paper may be of interest: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=6203748 Explanation of the sympols: (VT) I assume that (VT) means heat treated since I found this using heat treatment as a key work. The abstract is not clear. (My literature search service says the full paper can be down loaded but when I try it states that it is too new and has not been uploaded yet.) (V) is virused infected. (VTR) is virused reinfected. Just to highlight one of the observations: "V plants produced big tubers that weighed more than those from VT plants."

Forgot about Little Ralph. It's just plain green, but has lovely striped flowers. This post was edited by MadPlanter1 on Mon, Jan 20, 14 at 3:00

Seems like a difficult business to be in some days. :-) I did a quick search on amazon and came up with this link and another at the bottom of my post. http://www.amazon.com/Operate-Financially-Successful-Landscaping-Business/dp/1601382286/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1279400638&sr=1-1-fkmr2 I would say find a business that is successful and see if you can pick their brain. We seem to be seeing a lot of nurseries going out of business, isn't that true? I would think it's expensive especially if you have to keep greenhouses going. I know Lexington Gardens went out of business a few years ago, and you could see it coming for quite a few years. I was told by someone in management that the cost of fuel to run the greenhouse became outrageous. I know the owner was older and started to have health issues too. As a potential customer, I like that you are inclined toward natives and would love an organic direction as well. I travel a distance to make purchases that are in line with those two basic ideas. I drive 50mins to the NEWFS to buy native, mostly organically grown plant material. I drive the same distance to purchase organic vegetable starts in the spring, in years I don't start my own. I travel to Maine and combine a day trip to justify doing it, to purchase popular perennial and annual 'plugs' once a year in early spring, because so many nurseries that are close to me don't offer a plug size and have just about stopped offering the old '6 pack' size. I buy tiny shrubs from Bluestone Perennials because no one local offers that size and it makes it really affordable. I think a lot of people buy from them because of that and their frequent sales and great customer service. I was going to suggest that if you could model your business on one that didn't need heated greenhouses, you might be ahead of the game. Don't know if that is possible. It would certainly cut your costs, but limit what you offer. Anyway, maybe others can offer their own reasons why they shop at one place or another and what they are looking for in a nursery. Here is a link that might be useful: So you want to start a plant nursery

Butch, as you commented, I can offer my observations on winter moisture needs for hosta. Since we know that snow fall and winter snow cover can both blanket the top soil layer and prevent winter dry wind dessication and possibly provide a slow moisture release to the exposed surface layer roots, it can only be beneficial for their sustainability. Also, when the ground gets wet, then freezes and stays frozen, it actually does both: keeps the surface zone roots moist and insulate them from everyday thermal freeze/thaw. Mumbai attacks: you don't know how close your insights were to reality!! I was scheduled to be in Mumbai that day and the business partners I would have been with went to the cafe in the luxury hotel for drinks TWO HOURS before the shooting - they are Indian but I would have stood out as an American (ok, of Hungarian descent with black hair and tanned skin, but I guess I still look American.) They left the cafe and were walking on nearby streets when the gunfire erupted. As the hymn goes, "Count your blessings, name them one by one..." Speaking of winter moisture, exppecting 1" rain here the next 48 hours: if it goes above 40 degrees F I will drag my 40+ tropical plants out of the basement for a winter refreshment drink! Bruce