It sounds like you've done everything you can do to try to open them up from the holes. If the situation persists I'd say you'll probably have to repot them without the turface. If it continues the roses will eventually die from root rot.

When I pot mine I put a coffee filter over the holes. It dissolves over time but holds the soil from running thru for a time until it can settle. Then I put a shallow layer of packing peanuts in the bottom to create a drainage space. Then fill with potting soil and the rose. When I was using ceramic or terracotta pots I also lined the walls with bubble wrap to prevent them from cracking over the winter. I've never had a problem with them blocking up with this system.

Most of my roses are in large pots. I use quite a bit of perlite and some vermiculite in my soil which is a combination or E.B. Stone potting soil and same brand compost. At the bottom of each pot, depending on the size, I put 1-2" of pea gravel, $4 a bag at Home Depot. When I first started growing in pots I had a terrible time until I replanted in this way. They've drained great like this for over 4 months.
I like the cheap terracotta pots from Home Depot as I think they wick a little moisture on their own, and I also have a couple doing well in half-barrels.

The packing peanuts sound like a great idea because the gravel doesn't add that much weight, but the styrofoam weighs almost nothing. I'll have to try that.

Sorry you're having bad luck with yours, hope they get better!

This post was edited by racin_rose on Wed, Jul 10, 13 at 17:59

I don't know what your pots are made of, but you might try using a drill with a special bit to make big ole holes on the bottom. If the small ones clog that much, bigger ones would be in order, I think.

The attachment I use is made for drilling holes of certain diameters like 1 inch or whatever. They are easy to find at a hardware store and work quickly, depending on the material of the pot. Do make sure you match the attachment to the material of the pot (I mainly use resin or composite pots that drill well, and I've never done the holes in my fired ones).

Thanks, all. I do need a bigger drill bit. I use a glass/ceramic bit and I now know, the holes are not big enough for this situation. I think their decline is due to water logged roots, abnormal concentrations of ferts stuck in the bottom, and the following lack of proper nutrients and O2. My ten year old tree roses with NOTHING in the bottom are fine. Anything with the added clay are a mess. But just now, I checked them. The ones that I set free look better already. Just Joey , bolero, jubilee celebration , and PJP 2 ! I also ammended some bed soil with the clay, and they are also showing some signs of iron deficiency. Ugh.

Different climate totally, but I only use my plain old potting soil in nursery cans and more decorative pots for clients. The only times I have drainage issues are after several years of the soil breaking down. Even the best of organic soil replacements eventually deteriorate into silt. Silt will not drain. At that point, they require repotting. I also never put stones, filters, mesh or screening over the drain holes and soil "leaking" out them is never an issue. All of my cans and pots either sit right on the ground or other surface, on deep layers of stones in the saucers or are on pot feet. I never sit pots directly in saucers here. There are too many salts in the water, which quickly build up to toxic levels as the water evaporates from the saucers. It's like boiling a soup stock for days and finding it horribly salty. Kim

I don't usually use anything in the pots, either. Have good luck overwintering.
Do not know why I did it this year but it is a disaster. I guess I have too long of a winter which I spend pouring over the forums. Always trying to improve the garden.
Thanks for the input.

It is a mistake to put any kind of drainage layer in pots. You get the best drainage by filling the pot uniformly with potting mix, as commercial growers do. See the link for an explanation by a horticultural scientist.

Do not use any kind of drainage layer, ever, in pots or the garden, unless you want to reduce the amount of drainable soil available to the plant roots. It seems like it should help, but it actually makes things worse.

Susan, I wasn't there, but it's possible that the Turface wasn't actually clogging the hole, but rather you poked into the perched water table (saturated layer that forms above a drainage layer) and broke the surface tension, allowing the PWT to drain. But I'm just guessing. I don't know exactly how a layer of Turface would behave or what size particles you purchased..

Anyway, Turface is a good material to mix into potting soil.

Here is a link that might be useful: myth of drainage layer

I just repotted just Joey, and found big congealed lumps of turface and vermiculite at the bottom of the pot, obstructing the drainage holes. Gravity must have floated it down as it was tangled with a zillion feeder roots. Had to actually tease it out of the root system! I used regular turface and I also used the espoma soil perfect. Never again. I have roses in pots that have survived way worse than this situation. Never looked as bad as these.
Now, I have to repot about 5 more that should have been settled in for winter.
Hope they survive.
Thanks, all.

Vermiculite sounds like such a marvelous product, but it quickly breaks down into clay. I ONLY touch that stuff if I have to improve pure sand. Organic stuff often breaks down into silt. Vermiculite becomes clay-like. Pots need material which remains rather coarse, maintaining the air spaces for oxygen and drainage. Out here, there really isn't a suitable use for vermiculite. Kim

Some here may be referring to cat litter as "vermiculite." The common cat litter is not actual vermiculite, but rather calcined (baked) clay-- not baked enough to keep it from becoming a sticky moosh after a week's wetting. It is a good additive for too-sandy soils, but should be mixed thoroughly to prevent pockets or layers of goo.

Actual vermiculite is expanded mica. It is lightweight, shiny, and spongy. It is fine for lightening potting soil. If you order from Roses Unlimited, their potting soil is about 1/3 vermiculite. However, it doesn't help for long in garden soil, because it loses its loft under those conditions.

Apparently, vermiculite was used as cat litter long ago, hence the confusion, but it has not been sold for that purpose for decades.

I have over 50 potted roses. I drilled into the sides of the pot an inch above the ground. My pots are square so I drilled on all four sides. They drain wonderfully. But we need sun here. Too much rain (like a years worth so far already) and my roses look sad....really sad. But its not drainage related.

Sun, drainage, and healthy plants to all !!!

Susan, if you put cat litter in the bottom of the pot, that explains the problem right there. Is that what happened? Clay cat litter melts and should be used to increase water retention (slow the overly fast drainage) in sandy soil. Turface or Espoma Soil Perfector is ceramic nuggets (expamded clay) that do not melt and can improve soil drainage if mixed into heavy clay soils. They can also be used in potting soil, mixed in. However, "drainage layers," regardless of what they are made of, do not actually help pots drain.

Ugh. After repotting 3 of them, I have decided it is a combination of my errors. I did not use cat litter, I used espoma soil perfect ( no longer made but I found it on amazon ) and brand name Turface. I also used Neptunes Harvest potting soil. It is all muck now. Clogged drainage holes. The clay particles were totally clogging the holes. And the heavy potting soil didn't help. I did not create a drainage layer of anything. In pots, I think gravity and water pulled the clay particles down, where they just sat there waiting to kill my roses. See what happens when I post lots of BRAGGING pictures?

My potted things (some roses, lilies, lemon tree, etc.) are mostly in the largest black nursery pots I could find. Those things have huge drainage holes - some on the side only, some on the bottom only, some a combination. Those large holes do allow soil to leak out. It occurred to me one time when I had run out of pot bits with which to block the holes from leaking soil out so easily, years ago (5 +, if I recall correctly) that used up dryer sheets (non woven fabric softener sheets) would make an excellent soil blocker over the holes while allowing water to drain out easily. And I use dryer sheets in my laundry, so I have instant access to dozens of the things... The only time I've had trouble with the sheets is when I've been lazy about repotting and happy, enthusiastic rooters have grown through the sheets. Those times I generally cut the sheets off, but usually, they're still sitting there just a little tangled, but easy to remove during the 'replace the dirt' process.

The one time this hasn't worked well has been with my lemon tree, when something small went IN the drainage holes, tore up the dryer sheets and left bits of them all over the cement slab. Now every time I water the trees, some soil comes out with the water. I don't know if something is living inside the pot, but the lemon tree isn't doing terribly well - but it isn't the fault of the dryer sheets...