My Grandmother was a Rose Rustler. She was a young widow,had seen 2 husbands die,and visited the cemetery every Sunday with her daughter (my mother). She stole roses from other grave decorations, brought them home and propagated them in her yard. She had fabulous roses, all free. I was walking a few blocks from my home and saw a flower growing in a crack in a sidewalk. I plan to go back tomorrow with a hand trowel and shovel.

If it's not yours, it's STEALING!

For seeds, I guess everyone has their own code of ethics. Mine is NEVER take from a business that is selling plants, places that are showing their plants (arboretums), or private homes. Public parking lots, medians, highways are fair game for me. I work where there are lots of wonderful plantings, a few that are a bit more unusual. I gather seeds from them regularly, I know they aren't doing anything with the seeds & don't care. They will yank the plants out & replant soon anyway, and I'm talking nice perennials, not annuals. I cringe every time I see that

Aaaaah our increasingly permissive society. I know neighbors who do this regularly. Perhaps it my "boomer" generation but my basic opinion is its stealing. However I agree mostly with ngraham. I would never take anything from a business. I would (have) take things from the side of the highway that grow wild. The town parks here trash a lot of nice plants in the fall. I stopped 2 weeks ago as the town workers were pulling up some great Oriental Lilies. They were also digging the beds and tossed hundreds of Tulips, DL's and Phlox. The guys said "take all you want they're trash anyway." I pay my taxes so they're mine to start with. From a neighbors yard I'd ask. From the highway medium I'd just grab seeds. There's an abandoned home down the road that has hundreds of Irises growing. I do NOT steal some because someone somewhere is paying the taxes. Last summer on one of my forest trips to check my tree stand for deer hunting in the fall I came across some Irises growing near an old house foundation. Being way out in the woods they seem fair game so I went back in early september to get 100 rhyzomes. I think my dad would have said if it it seems to be going to waste then its ok.

It flirts uncomfortably with the boundries of proper decorum. Personally? I think that's stealing. I wouldn't do that any more than I would drop seeds of something that is aggressive in someone's garden.

Gardeners are a generous lot. Why not simply ASK?

Would I want to come home and see someone snatching seeds from my garden, or pruning my shrubs to obtain cuttings? Don't think so! My first move would be to give them a nice smile, walk into the house, and then let my Valley Bulldog -appropriately named Chewy - go introduce himself to them without me leaving the house...

As a courier for law firms I have MANY opportunities during the day to snatch seeds from private gardens and such, but I don't. Several times I've come home with plant division after complimenting folks, or a bag full of seeds gladly given to me by clients. There's nothing hard in asking.

Ngraham's code of ethics is good IMHO.

I've stooped to removing seed or a clipping from someone else's plant all of twice and felt terrible about it, and since neither the seed nor the pinched cutting took, I came by my just desserts. It was before I understood the plant marketplace well enough to know how and where I could find whatever plant I wanted.

I like Chelone's take on it - it is too shady to be sanctioned. It muddies boundaries, and thus makes it impossible to condemn the next incursion on society's behavioural norms. I don't even think it is OK to take from public places, as you can't tell someone else not to take a plant - which thousands of people apparently do from civic plantings - if you decide that you can take a seed head.

So steal I won't, but scavenge? When it comes to litter and discards, I have no pride. If it's on the ground, I agree it's fair game, and if I saw those city workers discarding lilies, I would have dug through a dung heap to get them. It's a rescue then, right?

I agree with Ngraham as well.

I agree with bossjim1. Stealing is stealing. Our forests are plagued with plant collectors who are destroying entire species, just to get something free. Most of the time, those plants don't even transplant.

What's that slogan on all the hiking shirts? ...."Leave only footprints... TAKE only pictures" or is it the other way around? Anyway, the public places are for EVERYONE'S enjoyment, so it doesn't seem fair to others to strip them of their beauty. Okay, do I need to go hug a tree now, LOL?

Just today I dug up some plants (heliopsis) from an old, neglected building site and moved them to my garden. I think this is harmless as they self seed there and noone cares for them. The place will one day be leveled and used for a parking lot or a supermarket.

I would say taking seeds from public plantings is OK because relatively few people do it so the plantings are not affected. Removing entire plants - which were planted by the city - from such places is theft.

I personally do not and would not take any plants or cuttings. I wouldn't go inside an abandoned house and steal anything, so why would I steal from the outside?

If something were offered, as in the case above where the workers offered the bulbs, that's a whole 'nother story. The item was offered, not taken without asking.

As far as seeds, I would never take any without asking from any private property, any corporate property, any park, or even parking lot. Out in the wild may be a different matter, but I've never come across anything I've wanted and so therefore have never done it (yet.)

:)
Dee

I don't think it's a generational thing, because this Gen X'er (I think... may be Gen Y?) would not take seeds or plants, either. In fact, I would feel odd even asking for seeds or cuttings--but I would definitely take someone up on good plants/seeds/divisions/cuttings if he/she offered after I had complimented the plant or garden.

However, I would definitely not be above asking, "Where did you get that?" I'm always looking for great new garden centers or other sources of plants. I found out about the local Master Gardeners' sale that way!

There are always exceptions to every rule. In general i don't (steal) plants or seeds.East Texas has beautiful wild flowers along their roads and i would'nt dream of picking flowers or digging up plants there. Years ago i decided i might could gather some seeds and spent over an hour on the phone calling state agencys to see if there were a law about getting seeds. I ended up at State Highway Police in Austin. Was told picking seeds was ok but would get hung for picking flowers. Had almost same conversation here in Ark. That don't mean go and pick all the seeds along hwy. You can call and ask also.
Here in National forest when a logging road was being built i rescued some sqashed wild dwarf iris rhisomes and babied them a couple years,planted some back where they'd be safe from any road and am planning on planting some in a nearby park area. I also told a ranger abt it.
Not far from me i found out an old housesite was going to be bulldozed in a couple of days. and i rescued a couple rose bushes by getting starts,and a lilac start and some spring flowers. I was proud of myself a couple days later when there was nothing left but clay and rocks.I never take anything from a business or regular houseplace without asking and i've never been turned down. except by Atwoods when i passed by their trash barrel and saw a bunch of sickly begonias in it and thought i bet i can save a couple. Was told they never gave trashed plants away. I took all the plants i'd gathered up to buy and set them on the counter and bought my plants elsewhere.
So never dig up plants in woods unless you are really going to SAVE them from loss even then you don't have to take but a start and make sure you can put them in a microcosm like they came from.If they have a deep taproot--forget it.
As for stems of roses from cemetaries. We would no longer have some of the antique roses we injoy today if someone had not identified and got a start from possibly a cemetary. Everyone can use some comman sense and only take a start not half or the whole of anything.I hope everyone knows what stealing is and is not.Did'nt really mean to give a lecture.Just my opinion.
vickie

If I don't have permission from the owner/caretaker, I don't touch it, let alone take seeds or cuttings. I'd far rather ask and receive the blessing of a clear conscience to go with my seeds/cuttings, than know that I stole - even if NO ONE else would ever see or know what I took, and no matter what the "good cause" I was taking them for, *I* would know and couldn't justify it. It's not worth it. So I ask first.

I would feel violated if someone took plants, cuttings, or seeds from my garden without asking. I'm happy to share, and that's part of what gardening is about for me. But a gift is far different from a theft.

Laurel

Sticky wicket, this plant acquisition business. The definition of "stealing" is taking what isn't yours either illegally or without permission. However, it's a much nicer word as a noun - which in one form is defined as a "bargain." :o) I like ngraham's philosophy. However, I'm ashamed to admit that in a moment of weakness I did once take a cutting from a business but felt horrible about it. I made sure I went back later and gave them some business. It's pretty cut and dry. Stealing is stealing, even if it is from a park or highway or a lonely field. What you're really asking is how you justify it. I believe most gardeners are generous people and don't steal from each other. But in the zeal for another plant, sometimes people take things from forests or preserves and are unintentionally altering that environment. I don't condone that, but for some reason parks and highways are fair game. Maybe because we all hate to see things go to waste. I'd like to think I've more than made up for the little divisions I've snatched from parks by sharing with others, but if the truth be told, it's still stealing. Count me guilty.

I've never stolen a plant, cutting or seeds from anyone, not even picked up a piece broken off by someone else at the nursery.

I buy my own plants or I exchange with friends and neighbors, period. In my book, anything else is stealing, and I just don't do that.

i would be deeply offended by someone taking the flowers from a loved ones grave.

I find the responses interesting. I'm suprised by how many think it is stealing. I'm not saying I do or I don't, I just find it interesting. And taking things that some may regard as stealing or not is definitely not something of the youth, poor, or uneducated. It makes me think of my job.
I work in a produce dept. for a very nice supermarket in a wealthy neighborhood. Many people think trying produce is not stealing. I think it is, and gross too. The thing is most of the time, I would be happy to wash a piece for a person to try. The items people love to eat most are grapes, cherries, and prunes. I hate finding pits everywhere. Most of the produce eaters are retirement age people!
Ok, sorry to go off on my tangent : )
Remy

I have never done this but why is it considered stealing to take seeds from a plant? Unless you harm the plant or make it look different in the process then it seems like it would be acceptable. I am not saying you should go into anyones garden without permission but if there is a plant in a public area and you can take some seeds and not do any harm then it seems like an ok thing to do.

You are simply doing the plant a favor by helping it to pass on its genes.

Stealing seeds prevents the plants from propagating in place. Many plants are grown with the intention of self-seeding. Ask, ask, ask.

Stealing from graves, whether given the cute name of rose-rustling or whatever, is the lowest form of human behavior. It's an increasing problem, in the US and elsewhere--stealing both plants and things like sculpture and ironwork. I think there is a special place in hell for people who hurt the bereaved in this way.

Rose rustling etiquette says ASK first. If groups of people take cuttings from a plant, that plant will perish and that's happened in many cemeteries.
Taking seeds from wild plants can result in losing that plant in the wild. Taking seeds of cultivated plants that don't belong to you is theft. The owner might have special plans for those seeds but if they don't, permission to take some would probably be given.
The whole problem is referred to as 'finger blight' by owners/managers of gardens open to the public. A visit by a garden club can reduce a treasured plant to stubs. Botanical gardens generally remove small potted plants when expecting visitors but sometimes they lose even large specimens. In some cases, valuable plants are quite literally chained in place.

If it (whatever, flower, seeds, money) isn't your's, leave it alone! Family rule from infancy. Pretty easy to live by. If it isn't yours, taking it is stealing. Justify the taking all the ways you like, it is STILL STEALING.

Asking is not hard, most times plant folks will share or tell you where they got the item. Everyone wants something for free, it makes the getting more exciting. Some of the most upright folks I know, think taking plant parts isn't stealing, though they would condem someone taking anything else. Items not yours, taken without permission, is still theft. NO EXCUSES change that.

We have a terrible time locally in the cemetaries in Spring. Everyone goes to visit, usually takes something to plant, ornament the graves. A LOT of the time the plants, planters, decorations, are gone on the next visit. People just come and dig up the new plantings, or take the whole planter, and then put them at their own gravesites!! I was just amazed when some friends related this to me!! Hard to believe people can be so crass. Everyting was gone the next day when they came back to water plants. They found their planters and moved them back, but the fact that they had to go hunt for them was astounding. Another lost her newly planted annuals from around the stone. Had to buy new, since it is hard to find YOUR marigolds among all the others in the cemetary. Really bad at Memorial Day season. I now put my flowers out after Memorial Day.

These are really difficult. I know I have seen a program on TV about someone who goes thru old cemetaries & takes clippings of old roses that are not seen anymore. Now, if they had permission to do so, that's ok, & I would probably give permission. Certainly wouldn't hurt the rose if it has been that decades. But around Memorial Day it is impossible to keep any flowers here, & so very sad that people will do that. It is bad enough to take from private gardens, but when you take from a tribute to a loved one, it's sickening.

I totally agree with the concept that the taking of any plant part without permission is stealing. In another forum, someone actually called it 'borrowing'! She had 'borrowed' the seeds of some plants at her favorite garden center. Sheesh.

To take the subject of cemetery plants along a different direction, some of the finest specimen plants in the world are to be found in cemeteries. My husband, formerly from Louisville, has permission to take seeds and cuttings from the magnificent trees at exquisite Cave Hill Cemetary, and their progeny now reside on the campus of the University of Alabama in Huntsville. He checks in with the cemetery director first, and collects only that which he is reasonably sure will be successful.

He knows how and when to collect his plant material, and does so with respect. I think it's a wonderful way to keep some of that great gene pool going.

I worked part-time at a local garden center last year. One woman, when admiring a 'Neon' sedum that she was considering, actually asked me, "Well, if I break a piece off of this and take it home and stick it in water, I could have a plant for free, right?" I was very taken aback, but responded with a smile: "Well, moneywise it would be free... but technically it would be stealing from the garden center so I'm not so sure what price your conscience would pay. Only you can know that." I'm not sure it was a good answer, but it was the best one I could come up with at the time--and as far as I could tell, she didn't break off a piece of the plant. She didn't buy it either, but that was fine with me.

On the other hand, a woman who was a frequent visitor, occasional buyer, and obviously a savvy enough gardener to know that sedum root that way picked up and handed me a stalk of 'Matrona' after I managed to break it off moving plants around. I asked her if she wanted it to try to root since it seemed like it would go with her garden style, and she took me up on the offer pretty eagerly. I went and got her a cup of water to take with her and stuck the sedum inside.

I really have no point to the above, but I think of those two women now every time I see someone taking seeds or tucking cuttings into their pockets at garden centers--and you can see this quite often if you people-watch. I would definitely rather be friends with the second woman.

I was once driving when next to the shoulder of the road I saw an interesting-looking clump of iris. I took one small piece - then when coming back a couple of hours later, I saw the same spot with landscaping machines busy turning the whole area over! So my piece of iris was the only one left - and it turned out to be a very interesting older type I had never seen before. To my way of thinking, by taking that one piece, I preserved something that would have been lost otherwise. OK - some might think my conscience is a little "elastic" but in my mind, there is a difference between a plant that is being cared for and one that is completely neglected.

If the plant is in an area that will cause the plant to be killed, crack in pavement, sidewalk etc. I am for digging it up and replanting. But as far as taking seeds maybe. If you take seeds use your fingers to drop some of the seeds on the ground. I have asked at some construction sites for permission, some have said yes, some straight no, but I have had a couple tell me that I couldn't dig but then gave me the time that the construction site would be cleared of workers.

I used to say I never took cuttings but on a visit to a magazine company in Des Moines several years ago I took a stem of chocolate mint. I still feel guilty about doing so. It did root and is growing in a pot.

Always ask you will feel better about yourself.

Every spring I'd see decent sized clumps of daffodils growing and blooming just a few feet from the road in some undeveloped, wooded county parkland nearby which is left in its natural state. Such a cheery sight, especially on a cool, rainy spring day. One day I saw two men (one middle-aged, one a bit younger) digging up those clumps and tossing them into the back of their pickup truck - they were definitely not county employees and it was definitely not a county-owned vehicle. My efforts to dissuade them met with a hostile response.

There are no longer any daffodils growing along the roadside on the undeveloped, wooded county parkland.

Were those daffodils "Cared for"? Probably not by anyone other than Mother Nature. "Neglected"? A matter of opinion. Did they need to be "rescued"? Only from thieves.

On a related note it is perfectly legal to "forage" on almost all "public lands"--including most city parks, medians, highway roadsides, state forests, state parks etc... Areas that are excepted would be areas like arboretums and conservation type areas. It is perfectly legal to collect and eat apples, berries, nuts, plums, watercress etc etc from public lands, as long as it is for personal use (you can't sell it!) and as long as the plant is not destroyed (you can't dig up a plant to harvest the root!). We recently had a newspaper article here about "foragers" who nearly live off the land right in the city, harvesting plant parts, fruit, nuts from city parks and roadsides. Obviously only the wild growing plants, not the planted petunias. And this is publicly-owned land only, not nurseries, businesses, private homes...

I suppose people use words like forage, russle, or rescue to ease their own minds, but they won't convince me that it's ok. What if you are in a state or national park, on a nature trail. There are some columbines at the end of their bloom cycle near the trail so you take some seeds. The next guy does the same and so on and so on. Then next year you go back. You may be saying "Humm, there used to be columbines growing here, I guess someone walked on them and killed them. I'm sure glad that I rescued some seed from them last year!" Go figure.

"On a related note it is perfectly legal to "forage" on almost all "public lands"--including most city parks, medians, highway roadsides, state forests, state parks etc..."

This is untrue.

Here are the rules on plant collecting in Florida, for example. You need written permission to take plant material from a state park. Note also the mention of permission needed to remove plants from right of ways, national forests etc.

I have been known to harvest seed from a commercial planting (i.e. at a motel or other business), as the likelihood of the business caring is about nil. On a rare occasion a cutting taken from a similar source right before frost would pass my conscience test. In general, it's better to ask permission first (I did this in the past week while on vacation and scored some interesting seeds as well as had a nice conversation with the gardener).

Christopher Lloyd used to refer to snippets taken under questionably legal circumstances as "Irish cuttings". I suspect that the term might be regarded as offensive by some. ;)

Totally untrue in Minnesota as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: State Statute link

Gee, Eric, if I'd known Christopher Lloyd felt that way, I would have helped myself when at Great Dixter this summer.

Deeje,

You might want to read beyond the first paragraph Subsection 2, paragraph E

E. Collecting or possessing naturally occurring
plants in a fresh state in state parks is prohibited, except that edible fruit and mushrooms may be harvested for personal, noncommercial use.

I think that covers the foragers for food as Sylvielou suggested. This is a rule in most states as it provides food for people who may or may not have enough to eat. The main point is for "Personal" use. Not collectors that take the food to the nearest market and sell it.

I do *not* think it is a matter of modern moral decline. It is more of an upbringing, moral code thing...I am labelled a gen-x and would never pinch seeds or plants from someone else's garden. 'Abandonned' homesites are usually owned by someone, natural areas need their seeds more than you, and you just cannot make assumptions about how a business would feel about bits of their landscaping walking away. It may be uncomfortable or inconvenient, but you must ask before taking something not belonging to you. Most gardeners are very willing to share, but if they decline, oh, well. Open your wallet and buy your own darn plant, for pity's sake.

Alia

What about berries and mushrooms? I know there are mushroom clubs in my area that go out and get mushrooms to eat. We have tons of black rasperries that grow all along the railroad tracks and trails by my house. We always collect and eat them. I have never considered this stealing.

The Audubon Society offers courses for mushroom and berries hunters that teach people how to locate these items and teach which are safe to consume.

If you look at the state statute links in the above posts, it is clearly stated that mushrooms and edible fruits can be harvested for private consumption. One can be pretty confident that all 50 states have statutes with virtually identical wording. My initial dismay was not with the mushroom hunters or the fruit pickers or someone who saves a plant from certain destruction - it was with those who visit garden centers to take pieces of a plant they have no intention of buying or visiting an arboretum solely for the purpose of finding seeds or taking cuttings. Or with those who think it is perhaps all right to come into my yard, or yours, for something they might like to have without asking first.

Alia, you said:

"I do *not* think it is a matter of modern moral decline. It is more of an upbringing, moral code thing...I am labelled a gen-x and would never pinch seeds or plants from someone else's garden. 'Abandonned' homesites are usually owned by someone, natural areas need their seeds more than you, and you just cannot make assumptions about how a business would feel about bits of their landscaping walking away. It may be uncomfortable or inconvenient, but you must ask before taking something not belonging to you. Most gardeners are very willing to share, but if they decline, oh, well. Open your wallet and buy your own darn plant, for pity's sake."

You give me hope for the future of this sometimes depraved society!

Thanks,
Claire

After reading these responses, I do feel chastized and will not be taking any plant material from public or private sites. Not even the empty lot where I saw that unusual purple weed. I do a lot of mail-order buying because I can't find really good plants locally. The nursery near me right now has only pumpkins and Halloween decorations. I will also check out the exchanges here on Gardenweb. Thanks for the heads-up, folks!

"If you look at the state statute links in the above posts, it is clearly stated that mushrooms and edible fruits can be harvested for private consumption. One can be pretty confident that all 50 states have statutes with virtually identical wording."

There is nothing I can find in the link I provided re Florida that gives blanket permission to harvest fruits and vegetables from state lands. And I don't know how you can "pretty confident(ly)" assume that you can do this in any state under any circumstances.
I did a bit more searching and found one national historic park (San Juan) that allows limited picking of certain fruits and mushrooms. It would not be legal or desirable to pick large quantities as part of one's routine "foraging".

The bottom line, if one is considering removing any plant or plant product from a state or national park, or even from some other public land or right-of-way: know the law for that specific location, get permission where needed, and don't assume that it's OK to dig up or take something because there's "plenty more". It can become a real problem when many people start doing these things, and spoil enjoyment for others.

I take ownership for my sweeping assumption.