Core aerating lawn under trees?

10 years ago

Two years ago I bought a house with a little guest house in the back so my dad could retire and I can check in on him daily.

This is west Texas. Trees are scarce and west Texans are tree-massacring savages. They blame everything bad on big trees.

I grew up in Memphis but I have been here 29 years. I have never stopped missing trees.

The house I bought for my dad and me 2 years ago just happens to have the uncontestable best trees in this dirt-blowing little town (30 miles west of Lubbock). However, there is also beautiful fescue under all my great trees.

I honestly had every intention of replacing the fescue with drought-hardy stuff and leaving just a bit of bermuda lawn. My dad felt VERY strongly that I was doing this to obliterate any more enjoyment he had left in life. Apparently, while I was missing trees, he was missing water hog type senseless lawns.

We have had the battle of tree vs. grass for 2 years now. He is enjoying the hell out of vexing my patience. I very logically explained why I did not wish him to use "weed and feed". He put it down the next day. Last month I had to have a dead 40 ft. locust removed. It had bloomed and was gorgeous the year before.

The other locust has borers that have been treated but after reading almost every word on this forum...I am not very optimistic.

I am seriously determined not to lose any more trees.

This forum has been so educational. It was because of y'all that I chose the best man to remove the locust; he used a cherry picker from the driveway over the top of the house into the back to keep from compacting the soil to not harm any tree roots. Which made my dad giggle his butt off while drinking beer and watching.

I would be so grateful for any input for saving my remaining trees. Example: does it hurt tree roots to core aerate the grass under and around the trees? Is it killing the live oak to soak under it every day refilling the birdbath (alkaline, clay soil). What is the deal with retired men with a beer in one hand and a hose in the other that makes it impossible for them to turn the dang hose off?

The county extension guy came out to look at the dead locust. He didn't see any indication of what killed the tree. He said it probably happened a while back and it takes big trees a long time to die (which sounds right after studying this forum). Then he went on to add, "this is the high plains. Trees are not native. No matter how much you coddle them, they are doomed". Which made dad giggle and offer him a beer.

Anyone who has stuck this post out this far- bless your heart. And please give me some guidlines for making sure these trees outlive my dad. Thank you for your patience and any advice.

PS--I think dad and Ken would get along great. If y'all volunteer Ken to come distract dad- whose name is also Ken, btw- I promise to...

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Comments (15)

Embothrium
10 years ago
I wouldn't bother with the coring - the soil between the cores - that is, nearly all of it - stays the same. Moving dad into a retirement community some miles away might be productive, however.
Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
10 years ago
cattyles, ya tell a pretty decent story.

Any of the pines of the southwest do ok in your area? It would be great to find something which won't drive up your water bill but will get big and tree like.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wikipedia link
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Sorry about the link, I put an extra quote in there by mistake. Here's the turf hound tips link again. I didn't really time myself so I can't give you a really good idea of how long it will take. I did a few hours on saturday between breakfast and lunch and again on sunday to cover a similar sized area.I probably could have done it all in one day. It wasn't really tiring or hard, just time consuming. Every once in a while I had to clear out the tines because they got clogged but that was about it. I wasn't sore afterwards except for some blisters. Didn't even notice them while I was getting them. Wear gloves. I wonder though, if your problem isn't more about poor grading rather than just compaction. Is there a particular low spot where all the water winds up at? Is your whole lot a low spot for the neighborhood? When water pools like that I think it makes the compaction worse. All that water weight pressing down on the soil. If you have a muddy lawn 3 days after the rain I think your problem is more than just compaction. Take a good look at the grading. Make sure it directs water away from the house first, then make sure there aren't any areas where water can collect the way you describe. After you aerate you should topdress with compost otherwise the holes are just going to fill in mostly from the surrounding clay. You might need to bring in some topsoil too if you have grading issues. It may not even be your soil, it could be what's under your soil. I've read things about hard pan, where there is a very compacted layer under your topsoil that can cause problems.
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From Purdue Turf: In theory, a barrier of preemergene herbicide is created in the soil and limites emergence of crabgrass. Any gap in this barrier could allow crabgrass to germinate. This is why a uniform application of preemergence herbicide is required and practices like power raking or aerification are usually not recommended after application. However, research consistently shows that aerification does not reduce effectiveness of the herbicide. When aerification plugs are returned to soil, the herbicide may be simply redistributed in soil and not actually removed. The size of an aerification hole is only 0.5 to 0.75 inche in diameter and even though a crabgrass plant may germinate in a hole, its roots will explore well outside that hole and come into contact with the herbicide. Our recommendation is to not tempt fate and limit aerification following preemergence herbicide application if possible. But if turf areas will benefit long-term from aerification, aerify whenever you can regardless if a preemergence herbicide has been applied. Here is a link that might be useful: Purdue Turf Tip
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>>Morph can you expand on the idea of "juicy, weak growth" in the spring? Most people would be surprised by this because everybody is told to fertilize in the spring. Tell me about it. This is probably the one concept we get the most resistance on. And I cringe every year when the Scott's "Feed your lawn! Feed it!" ads are on in March. This is for northern grasses like we have. Southern grasses like Bermuda have very different feeding patterns. Your lawn stores carbohydrates in its root system for winter survival. By spring, amounts of these are down, but there are still plenty to fuel growth through May. Grass growth in April and early May is always very, very strong as the grass is attempting to grow to its genetic height (usually anywhere from 18" to 36" depending on the cultivar). It's using the remaining carbohydrate storage to fuel that. Adding nitrogen at this stage just accelerates the growth, and speeds up how fast the stored carbohydrates tap (nitrogen is not common in nature and plants are geared to absorb everything they can get and use it). As the roots tap, they die off and slough. For feeder roots, that's not a major issue as this will happen anyway. For larger roots, it's a problem as it reduces their ability to tap water from the soil. Genetically speaking, grasses don't care about summer performance. By then, they've seeded out and the seeds just need to develop and age a bit, then fall to the ground and get ready to sprout when the weather shifts in fall. So in nature, tapping the root systems and looking terrible in July isn't a problem (and why some grasses have dormancy mechanisms to survive the [dry] summer). We don't like that tendency, so avoiding excess N in spring will help with this. Faster growth on anything tends to be weaker, more watery, and less well-defended. Overfeed any plant with nitrogen and you'll see that as the internode lengths increase drastically, and the stems become easy to bend and a bit weak. You've now created a weakened grass with a ton of available mass. Herbivorous insects now move in to eat it (it's there, there's a lot of it, it's an invitation). Breaks in the structure also allow disease to move in and set up light housekeeping--disease fungi love that. Holding off feeding until May when growth slows puts the nitrogen to a different use. Instead of fueling growth, the grass is shifting to summer mode where it stores energy to survive the dry and hot periods. Rather than decrease summer performance, you're increasing it a little. Summer is a "hang on and survive" period for grasses, so sparking growth by feeding isn't a good idea here either. Similarly, fall doesn't light off nearly the growth surge that spring does, so feeding tends to go to carbohydrate storage, root growth, and general health. That last fall feeding when the grass is no longer growing is actually the most important--the very vast majority of it will go directly to carbohydrate storage (the rest goes to root growth, which continues right up to ground freeze). That's providing energy to survive the winter, and to support normal growth rates in spring. These rules are for synthetics...nature provides very few fast nitrogen sources to plants (urea and blood being the only two I can think of offhand). Most natural sources are slow to very slow, and don't cause these issues. Organic feeding simulates a more natural feeding regimen, while still holding feeding levels high (as they have to be for our not very natural lawns). We stress the heck out of these things by mowing them constantly, planting densely, and demanding a weed-free environment.
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morpheouspa. Gloves down here for a moment. What claims are you referring to that I have made about mechanical aeration? Granted, I do claim that there are purposes for which the employment of mechanical aeration can be useful and it irritates me to no end that people peremptorily discount mechanical aeration as being without any use. (in the past couple of months, I've seen were you have suggested? that plug aeration might be an aid in pursuing some outcome.) Are you saying that I have advocated mechanical aeration as a necessary continued lawn care practice? (Do you advocate the application of a surfactant as a necessary continuing lawn care practice?) Is it necessary to spam this site with links to hundreds of university turf programs that recommend home owner lawn aeration not only as a continuing lawn care practice, but for the prevention of disease, thatch LDS etc.? For what purpose? They are just conclusory statements, No more valid than anything you or anyone else can produce. What you linked to, rather than belittle you, look at the facts: First some of what they call aeration is plowing (bad for me) but anyway I counted 13 studies and of those, the majority showed some improvement to crop yield, none showed a decline. They do,make a conclusory statement that aeration will cause increased weeds. OK fine. Based on what? No ancillary evidence even? Did they atleast credit dchall for the quote or maybe daniel? So even though your site actually supports that aeration results in slightly greater % crop production than non aeration, I say irrelevant and useless for any support for either of us. This argument has been going on forever, but if you take the time to understand and observe, there are logical conclusions you can come to and when applied either work or don't. If X then Y, put it to the test, and if it repeats, then continue, whether it is surfacants, aeration, corn meal or Bayer. So recommend on your experience and give your rational when challenged. Caveat emptor. My goal for my lawn, and for those I give advice to, is to obtain a turf that in the shortest time possible will only require mowing, watering and fertilization. I endeavor to employ the least expensive, least labor intensive, but most effective methods for a healthy turf AND soil and those are the ones I promote. My questions were for the reader and therefor need no response from you . I will no longer joust this windmill with you or anyone else, but I will call out anyone who "make [an unsupportable} claim... or [spew} any other blatant lie"
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cattyles
Original Author
10 years ago
You guys are the best! Just for reading that whole thing.....

bboy- dad is going to aerate because that's what he thinks that damn fescue needs. Well, that and $150 worth of water every month (lawn on separate bill). I'm just hoping the core aeration won't harm the tree roots now that I know how close to the surface the roots are.

toronado3800- I have 4 really big pines and 1 more what I consider to be a pretty massive pine. I will post pictures as soon as I can. I am still at work (hospital, waiting on a baby to be born) and in about 4 hours, it will be time to be back at work. But I will try to post pictures tomorrow. I have some gorgeous, big trees- especially for this area. I love them! And I don't want to lose any more of them. The house was built in '78 and the pines were planted before the house was finished. Not sure about the locust, they are as big as the others but faster growing, right? The oaks are probably not much younger. The locust that was removed was at least 40 ft.

Oh and bboy- The retirement community suggestion made me get all dreamy eyed. Then I remembered that I moved him FROM a lovely one 30 miles away so he could enjoy his retirement with his delightful, loving daughter and grandson. The process can be reversed, though if he doesn't start minding better haha.

This post was edited by cattyles on Sat, May 10, 14 at 13:25
Embothrium
10 years ago
Red maples like moist soil, one of the common names is swamp maple.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
10 years ago
What is the deal with retired men with a beer in one hand and a hose in the other that makes it impossible for them to turn the dang hose off?

==>> be glad its the garden hose he is playing with.. while standing in the yard ...

your OP is hilarious.. thx for such

as you are well aware.. dad is more important ... let him do what he wants ....

have him pay the water bill also ... he will come to understand when it cuts .. significantly.. into his beer money ...

i agree on the uselessness of coring .... boat payment for the guy who owns the machine ....

ken
rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
10 years ago
Catty, the core aeration process will not harm the trees, so don't worry about that. It can be hugely beneficial, as a matter of fact, if the soil is compacted or fine textured. Encourage your Dad to top-dress
with a triple-grind bark after the aeration is done. For the fescue, of course.

Don't tell him that he'll be benefitting the trees.
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
10 years ago
i agree on the uselessness of coring

Uselessness?? Core aeration is absolutely the best thing you can do for a lawn - I rate it even higher than any sort of fertilizing and recommend it be done annually. Soils under lawns ARE compacted - it is just the nature of the beast. Walking or playing, routine mowing, even watering or rain all cause compaction. And compaction limits the ability of water to penetrate into the soil, for the lawn to develop deep roots (and therefore more drought tolerance) and for any fertilization to be efficient or even moderately beneficial.

Rhizo is absolutely right. Core aerate then topdress with fine bark or coarse compost. The trees will benefit, the lawn will benefit, the water bills will decline and Dad will be happy. And core aerators can be had at any equipment rental outfit for a modest charge per day.
Embothrium
10 years ago
Core aeration is for making holes in an impervious thatch layer. A compacted soil is not going to be broken up by just the poking of holes in it - an aerator is not a tiller. A hard, dry soil beneath thatch will, of course eventually become somewhat softer when water is able to reach it.
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
10 years ago
Sorry but that is not at all correct. Core aeration is not for just thatch removal (that's what power dethatcher attachments or thatching rakes are all about). Ask any lawn care professional and they will outline the benefits of aeration. A core aerator does not "poke holes" in the soil - it actually removes a 3" long (or more) plug of soil/thatch/lawn all over the treated area. If these plugs are left to breakdown and decompose and a thin layer of fine bark or compost is spread over the area, textural components of organic matter work their way down into the soil via these empty 'cores', loosening the soil and opening up pore space (that's why they call it "aeration"), allowing for deeper penetration of water and lawn roots which further loosen the soil.

Core aeration will certainly help in reducing thatch build up (so will using a mulching mower) but that is not its primary intent.

Here is a link that might be useful: professional turf care take on the benefits of core aeration
cattyles
Original Author
10 years ago
Thank you for the reassurance that aeration won't damage tree roots, Rhizo and Gardengal. It's not as if I might be able to talk him out of it. He's definitely going to rent the aerator and do it. And then I will topdress. Thank you for that suggestion.

It's not that the fescue isn't gorgeous.....it is. But it's hard to enjoy and appreciate it when we are in the midst of a horrible drought.

The man makes fun of MULCH. My yard makes its' own wonderful mulch- all the pine straw and leaves I need. But he can't understand why I would not rather use that pretty colored rubber stuff. There's no reasoning with that.

I know Ken is right, I should humor and indulge him. So I will try. As long as he doesn't do anything that could harm the trees. As long as it's ok to sedate him if he ever tries to weed and feed again.
whaas_5a
10 years ago
Another vote here for core aeration. It does wonders for improving water infiltration, overseeding and soil compaction.

My lawn is too new yet (thin) but can't wait to core aerate as its compated in many areas and the water just sheds right down the hills.
Embothrium
10 years ago
I wasn't talking about thatch removal.

By what specific mechanism is the physical properties of the soil between the holes changed by cores being removed and filled with different material? How does coring manage to affect soil outside of the holes whereas using root feeders and amended planting hole back-fill does not change the soil around the holes made in so doing?

This post was edited by bboy on Thu, Aug 22, 13 at 20:44
cattyles
Original Author
10 years ago
==>> be glad its the garden hose he is playing with.. while standing in the yard ...See?!? Must be something about the name Ken.

While I was at work today dad hauled all my saved-up pine straw to the dump. I am going to put a name tag on dad that says "Quercus robur" and ship him to Ken_Adrian.
whaas_5a
10 years ago
Personally I don't fill holes. You overseed with the open holes so those seeds get deeper roots while getting shade from the existing grass plants.

Over the growing season it fills in.
cattyles
Original Author
10 years ago
I have read a little about overseeding. It probably does need it, it seems a little more sparse this year. I never thought my dad and I would have heated arguments over fertilizer. He wants to spread a ton of it right now while it is 95-100 degrees.

Last year I planted some bare root hostas that he made fun of and said they would never come up but 5 did. He loves to gently carry any snail he comes across over to the hostas and find them a nice comfy spot. I am not exaggerating. That's just wrong and hurtful.

Core aerating lawn under trees?

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Embothrium

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