I see this is an old thread, but in answer to the original question, yes the wire will girdle the roots and kill the trees; I have first hand experience in Central CA and about 16" annual rainfall. Galvanized wire does not readily rot out...not for years and after 15 years at my place it's still there. Plain steel wire in the necessary thin gauge is hard to find as poultry mesh. Note there may be some species that can create new tissue around the wire but I have never seen a list and don't have the time to experiment. I have seen trees grow around barbed wire fences but I have never cut one in-section to see if the tree's phloem actually healed over the wire or if it just looks that way and since the wire was straight it did not ring-bark the tree. For sure we lost our apricots and walnuts. I have one large sycamore (no basket) next to three stunted sycamores (with baskets). When we realized this was happening to the fruit trees, we carefully dug around 1/2 the tree to the wire basket and carefully cut the wire around the roots. Then we waited for a season for healing the disturbed 1/2 and then cut the other side. All in all it seems a day late and a dollar short because the orchard growth stalled. We now plant new trees in oversized holes lined with thin, 1" concrete pavers, extending a couple inches above the top of the soil while being careful to make sure no holes larger than 1/2-3/4" exist between the pavers. It seems to be working extremely well. We have not had any issues with gophers jumping over the top but if we do we will simply place something on top of the soil around the tree. Our theory is this: Once a paver is buried in the ground, it's very difficult or impossible to move without a large enough hole created by the gopher to allow it to shift. We surmise gophers can't think the mechanics through and are not generally that lucky to stumble upon the solution. I suppose if the gopher chose to make it's primary burrow right next to the pavers, one could fall out of place. The tree root, however, can get through the holes between the pavers and slowly push the paver out of the way as it grows without being ring-barked/girdled. I think of roots growing under and buckling a sidewalk to visualize the power of a root. To date, we have had great luck and no girdled trees. So, what about cost? Well, the argument that a hundred dollar hole might make a thousand dollar tree and a 10 dollar hole might kill it is a good one. I happen to have a ready-supply of paver off-cuts and rejects to keep my cost down. We have speculated about what to do to keep the costs down and have thought of many alternate ways while keeping the original concept intact: a lined hole where roots can grow through the liner but gophers cannot get at the young tree to do their damage When the day comes for me to make a hole and line it with something different than pavers to save money, I plan to try this one first as a cost-saver: Dig an oversize hole with sloped walls. Mix up some inexpensive fence-post mix, or stucco, or a home made mix (add some extra sand to make it go farther –it can be a weak mix). Make it a stiff-mix and line the hole with the mud, making an in-ground bowl, more or less. Then cut or score deep lines in the firm mud in a large grid (6"?) so as to allow the bowl to break to bits once dry. Now poke holes through the mix where the lines cross; it's these holes that will serve as drainage and for the roots to grow out of so be sure they go all the way through. We thought of pounding in wood stakes while the bowl set up for awhile and removing prior to back-filling the hole. We speculate, too, that if it were a really weak mix ( 1 part cement to 10 or 12 parts sand) that poking a bunch of holes in the mud is all that would be needed (no scoring lines) and the tree would win the day at time of breaking. None of what is done in making the lined hole needs to be pretty, it just needs to confound the gophers and allow the tree to bust-its-way out. It's labor intensive, like the pavers, but no too costly on materials. The hole can be filled with soil when wet, and the tree thus planted, too, so it should be fairly fast. Again, you can cap the buried bowl with wire if your gophers like to travel over-land. One component I would like to add would be sprinkling something on the fresh mortar to counter the change in PH while the bowl cures underground; perhaps acidic Redwood mulch? What other ideas are out there? How about up-cycling flattened tin cans from the recycling bin and lining the hole and letting them compost? If anyone has an idea on how to make a lined hole where roots can grow through the liner but gophers cannot get at the young tree to do their damage, I'd love to hear it!

well, that one is a little different. The ones I have are in a similar tube but then have a conventional trap, the kind that has 2 wires that close together. The one in the picture has a wire loop that draws up. May work though, haven't tried one like that. Actually, I only have one store bought one. The others are hand made using old aluminum irrigation pipe, PVC end caps, and conventional traps. (shhhhh I kinda stole the idea from the one I bought) I still think using wire is good when planting new trees to give them time to get enough roots to be established. That first year is so important. I would never use plastic netting in the ground. The rasceles would probably think it was a "chew toy" and chew through it just for fun anyway. I use metal, knowing that it will rust out in 3 to 5 years, but that is what I want so the roots will not be strangled by wire as they get bigger. I use the cheap construction wire they use to stucco houses. I stretch the wire out across the bottom and out to the sides of the entire planting hole. Then plant as usual. Keeps the out for a couple of years. That's all I need to let the tree get a good start.

That was funny, Iowa_jade, thanks. I checked the Waddle fences link: they look more fortified than the fences erected by Germans during Normandy invasion. Very impressive! Whatever you do, NEVER feed bunnies rancid sunflower seeds. I threw those on our patio. A few days later, there's bunnies' feces everywhere. They diarrhea-ed on the patio. Bunnies clean up their poop by eating them, except for sunflower seeds. I have to put up with the ghastly potty site until they dry up enough to sweep away. Seil will try Irish Spring Soap - I'll try one or two bars only, lest my backyard looks like a bubble bath in the wet spring. The old fashion baby-powder with talc is cheaper than perfume, so I'll sprinkle smelly baby-powder around roses. I'll try more than one methods (raw eggs & garlic, curry powder, hair spray, garlic chives) and will report the results.

Posted by: winter_plumage_AZ Sonoran Desert (My Page) on Thu, Jun 23, 05 at 12:48 "Okay, here's what we have established: Traps were placed for an unknown target. Squirrels can jump and quail can't carry apples. You've paid $300+ to kill quail (illegal, btw) but you can't pay anyone to erect a freakin' barrier." I did not spend 300 on anything. I got the check back and purchased from an alternate source two discounted live traps, and five two dollar snap traps. The bait (apples for live traps, cotton for snap traps) are already things we keep around the house. Inspection of the property was free. The entire thing was inexpensive. 50 dollars or under. I agree a 300 dollar barrier would be affordable. I dont think anyone could build me one the size I need for that. If I am wrong and someone is willing and able to come over and build two enclosed gardens for me that complies with my HOA for under $300 dollars -- you have a job if you want it. E-mail me and we will talk. I bought LIVE traps to catch and release squirrels, not to kill quail. I set the traps according to the specifications I was given. I have not done anything "illegal" as you suggest. "packrats & mice aren't into fruit; therefore I'm not understanding the reason for trapping them. Oops! Money for the pest control people!" It wss the young man at a pest control place who, when I told him I would not pay the 300 dollars, kindly told me where I could find discounted live traps. Go figure. Why trap packrats if they arent into the fruit? Because I don't want them destroying the firebrick on my kiln (very fragile), or my air conditioning units, or my lawn mower, or the wiring in our cars. They have already chewed holes in my tarps, built a nest under the lawn mower, and are in the kiln area. "How *DID* they evolve without cultivated fruit in their burrows?!! *Think* about that." Dogs and horses evolved without commercially prepared kibble or commercially produced feed. Yet they still eat it. Cats cannot hunt or kill a cow. Yet they will eat beef it if it is in cat food. Just because they eat a type of food now, doesn't mean that they couldn't have "evolved" or survived in the wild without it. (or that it is the healthiest thing for them to eat either). When you alter an animals natural habitat, they do not always act the same as they would in the wild. Sometimes even domesticated animals carry out instinctive behaviors in illogical ways. I know a lady in Hawaii who has a dog that collects and stores coconuts under her house. I know of another whose dog liked to herd the kitchen chairs into a corner. "Now, how long do you suppose fruit would retain its moisture? If fruit were "stored" in burrows, the moisture would create toxic fungi/mold." Many people where I grew up used to store apples and other fruits and vegetables in dark, dry, EARTH, root-cellars. Green apples (especially the smaller ones) actually do have quite a long shelf life. Assuming they would mold or just dry out quickly, that is still not proof that they are not being taken (or taken and placed into in burrows). Animals will drink antifreeze. It is not part of their natural diet. In fact, it can be quite deadly. Animals sometimes take or eat things because it is available and smells good, not because they "have to" and not knowing it is not a "logical" or healthy thing for them to do. I have not ruled out the possibility that it might not be some other type of animal. The live traps were one way to try to find the answer to that. They were never intended to kill anything. "How 'bout a surveillance camera?!!" That is a good suggestion and something that I did think about and check into. I agree that if I knew without a doubt what was taking the apples, it would be helpful in finding a solution. But I need a wireless camera (no electricity in the orchard and too far away to run electrical cord) that projects to an indoor monitor, it has to be weather proof (it is an outside exposed area), and the moniter has to either record or have the ability to hook up to a VCR, (so you dont have to have someone present 24/7 to observe the moniter). I was expecting prices similar to the motion activated nanny cams you see everywhere now (100 dollar and under range). Not so, the outdoor wireless that transmit long distances are extremely expensive. The prices I got were all close to 1000 dollars (installation not included). That is just not affordable and so I am still shopping around. "I happen to think that education is constructive, even if it isnt what we want to hear." "Education" is constructive. Sarcasm, presumption, insinuation, and the assumption that your "opinion" is the only "right" one, is not so constructive. It is your tone I take offense to. And frankly, it is not really needed to get your point across. "It is disturbing that people don't care enough to know and value our natives as part of the diverse ecosystem of the Sonoran Desert, and can so easily take away their lives for myriad reasons--not the least of which is for fruit that can be purchased at the store. The wildlife being displaced are without alternatives/options, and their hungry young are left to die a slow, painful death of dehydration and starvation as they wait for their mother to return. Enjoy your crop." If I simply did not care, as you suggest, I would not be attempting to live-trap and relocate. Part of our subdivision is next to protected desert upland, part is not. Mine is not. Because of the way the community is situation, we have many native and non-native food sources available. The animals here are far from starving. The cottontails and quail are so big and fat, they don't look like desert animals. People even put seed out for them. No critters (quail, squirrel, or unknown target) are going to be forced to die a slow and painful death just because I intend to find a way to stop them of eating ALL the fruit from my fruit trees. You have made your point about the problems associated with urban encroachment and the plight of Arizona's native wildlife. I think it is great that you feel passionately about this cause. I have my own causes (and believe it or not, most are animal welfare causes) that I am equally passionate about. But it is not my preference to belittle or lecture people for not agreeing with my beliefs or opinions. This conversation between us is not really productive, so please, lets just move on. Jessica