gentle enabling needed - need help with next year's choices

15 years ago

My top qualities desired in a rose are fragrance, fragrance, fragrance, then hardiness (i'm in zone 5), longevity, disease resistance, etc - I've been perusing my catalogs for next year and there are a number I'd like such as Pope John Paul II and Sweetness - unfortunately these are also both JP. My daughter's nickname is sweetness and purple is her favorite color, but since this rose is so new I was hoping some who had it as a trial rose or something could give me some insight on whether it was worth making space for. Other's on my short list are Jacob's coat (my youngest son is Jacob) and Gabriel noyelle (my middle son is Gabriel and he's getting a little put out that there are other flowers in the yard with other kids names on them, but not his). I've also been going through Chamblee's catalog and having a horrible time narrowing down my choices. I'll try to narrow them down a little before I ask for input. But for now, any comments on PJP, Sweetnes, Gabriel Noyelle, Jacob's Coat. Or any other ideas for roses - as far as names ones with Kelly, Jim, Seth, Gabe, Alyssa, Jacob, Kandi, Mike, or Shirley -

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Comments (17)

kandaceshirley
Original Author
15 years ago
Here's my short list of possible choices (I forgot to mention earlier that rebloom is also a factor)
1- PJP
2- Margaret Merrill
3- Jacob's Robe
4- Wild Blue Yonder
5- Gabriel Noyelle
6- Madame Isaac Periere
7- Tradescant
8- Buff Beauty
9- Burgundy Iceberg
10- Sov De La Malmaison (climber or bourbon, not sure which if either)
11- ebb tide
12- iceberg
13- lover's delite
14- autumn dusk
15- blue skies
16- earth song
17 - enchanted autumn
18- musicale
19 - silver shadows
20- honey sweet
21- prairie sunrise
22- wild giner
23- winter sunset

any eliminations, suggestions, comments on these?
kandaceshirley
Original Author
15 years ago
24- sweetness
Related Discussions
Planning next years garden. Need some suggestions.
Q
Comments (18)
Hello, I am tagging onto this thread so as not to break the rule of posting a topic that is already posted. I hope people are still reading this thread and will reply. :D I too am planning my garden for next year. We also just bought an acre, so I'm reading this thread with interest! We also have bermuda and johnson grass growing where I want my garden. We also have moles and grasshoppers in droves! I have created a layout and developed a bit of a plan. I know where I want my permanent plants like fruit trees and shrubs. I have a riding mower and am looking at buying a used tiller. But, my questions will help me make this decision! I am thinking about making the paths between beds lawn that I can just mow with the mower, then just rake or blow the grass clippings into the beds. Would it work to put pavers between the lawn path and the bed to keep the grass out? I am wanting to start some beds right away, so I could purchase some compost and supplies. However, I also have moving boxes I can use to begin a lasagna system. I have tons of leaves in the back area I can cart to the garden area. Do I need to till up any of this space? It will be 1/4 acre (includes area for fruit trees). Or, I could order some truckloads of compost and do it all at once. My biggest worry about that is working it into the existing dirt and killing the bermuda where I want to kill it. The existing dirt is like cement right now - even after watering. Does this mean I need a tiller? Or, do I hope that putting compost on top of compacted dirt will work? How well will plant roots break into that? Thanks for reading. emepro
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Definitely don't need enabling - just advise.
Q
Comments (26)
Hi, Sherry. You have probably already given up this post, but I thought I'd share my experience anyway. I have several Austins. Molineux is about 3+ years old. It stays fairly small, being upright and narrow. It really blooms a lot, almost as much as a tea. It is in a raised bed with 3-4 hours of full sun daily. It does always have some blackspot, any where from mild to 50% defoliation, but still it keeps on flowering. Spring 2009 was quite long for Houston, with no really hot weather until June. Molineux's flowers were quite large and a deeper yellow for the first time. Usually, they are smaller and in the summer the petals get brushed with pink, giving a more apricot color. Lilian Austin is next to Molineux, but only about 1.5 years old. It doesn't blackspot nearly as much, but can have brief periods with more blackspot. So far it has not been a heavy bloomer. Tradescant is 3+ years old. It gets a bit more sun. It blooms in regular cycles. Everyone who sees the cut flowers loves its dark color and wonderful fragrance. It would like to be a wide sprawling bush. I have to cut it back quite far after each bloom cycle to keep it contained in its allotted space. It also gets some blackspot, but far less than Molineux. I also have Scepter'd Isle, about 3-4 years old. I kept it in a small pot for too long before planting it, and then it has not grown or flowered much since planting it. It is by far the healthiest, with a lovely fragrance, but flowers that blow quickly. I was considering shovel pruning it this spring, but it now has two new canes starting from the soil. Those new canes don't just shoot up like a tea rose would, but seem to be barely growing at all. Still, the new growth has given me new hope for this one. Last year, I broke down and purchased a grafted Lady Emma Hamilton locally, as I had been wanting it ever since I first saw it. It is in a large pot. It blooms quite regularly, with a nice fragrance and beautiful changing colors. It looks nice at all stages of the flower(even when it fades). And yes, it does get some blackspot. Not too badly (by my standards), except when we get those prolonged periods of really humid, rainy weather - then she can defoliate. Lastly, I ordered a Cordelia from David Austin last month. It is also planted in a large pot. There is only one photo on HMF, posted by a man from Houston. His recommendation counted for a lot since he lives in my area. Also, its official name is AUSbottle, and I know it is supposed to make hips (I adore rose hips)- thus I am hoping that the hips are supposed to be bottle shaped. Also, it is supposed to be healthy (only time will tell). It is part of David Austin's alba group, so I was hoping for an alba looking rose since I can't grow alba roses here. Kathy
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Need help on David Austins for this year
Q
Comments (15)
Wow, thanks for all the feedback, that will definitely be a lot to digest! I guess I should add my short summary of the Austin's I've grown for anyone else researching DA's for this season: Ambridge Rose - Started off in a poor location but since I moved it to a pot it has blossomed. Short grower of 2-3 ft. Once I rid it of rust it has done quite well. Beautiful, large cupped flowers of pale pink cream centers. Petal edges are often scalloped. Medium myrhh scent. Fairly thornless, lovely foliage. Benjamin Britten - Very thorny, strong and upright plant. Color is a very intriguing blend of a saturated raspberry with a tint of orange. Amazing cent is fruity and strong, of apples to me. No disease. Tall growth of 5 - 6 ft. Lots or flowers, ok repeat. Brother Cadfael - Grown as climber, very stout and vigorous. 2-3 major flushes. Huge chalice cupped pink to dusty pink blooms. Completely thorn-free. Interestingly this year, the first flush was scented strongly of myrrh, the second flush had lost that scent and was purely tea. Flowers crisp in heat but fail to full open without plenty of sunshine. Jude the Obscure - Doing great now that I removed the ivy and roots around it, took a bit to get established after ridding it of rampant rust. Grown as a climber, around 6-7 ft in partial shade. Beautiful cupped blossoms with a delectable fruity scent. The very tangy scent is probably the favorite of all my Austins. Unfortunately it seems to start losing its petals as soon as it is plucked. Very few thorns. Ok repeat. Kathryn Morely - Fairly thorny, especially around the base canes. Lovely, delicate blossoms of pink fading to white. Repeats well and often. Mine is a bit straggly since it was planted in a relatively sunny/hot area. Grown as climber, must have hit 8-10 ft this summer. Very light, almost undetectable scent. Carding Mill - My current favorite. Very few thorns, no disease. Constant flush of blooms, huge blossoms, very strong myrrh scent. The color of the blooms is amazing, fading from orange to pink to cream. When the blossoms age they turn a pale apricot, but retain its petals all the way until the end. Lovely foliage. Growth of around 5-6 ft. I love how the petal edges are scalloped, and young flowers often remind my of water lilies. Sweet Juliet - Amazing scent when you can get it to bloom. Mine seems much more bent on throwing out canes and vast amounts of foliage after the first year of blooms. Also seems prone to powdery mildew and BS. Lovely multicolor blooms that are medium to small size. Bushy, growth that needs to be well trimmed. The Mary Rose - This is probably the best bloomer I've had, with the entire bush constantly covered in peony like pink blooms - also always my first Austin to bloom each yr. Each flush the plant which I've grown as a nice arching bush (canes arch beautifully) is completely covered in medium pink flowers that gradually fade to very pale pink. Scent to me is like soap from a boutique shop. Fairly thorny and prone to BS and mildew. Generous Gardener - Tiny own root plant, seems to be a pretty good bloomer. I know I'll love the blooms, now if I can just get the plant to grow. Charles Renne Macintosh - Own root, young and struggingly against mildew. Interesting color of flowers Graham Thomas - Own root, doing quite well. Few thorns and very nicely formed yellow flowers. Lovely tea scent. Golden Celebration - Fairly good repeat, lovely scent. Nice bushy growth. Abraham Darby - picked this one up at costco w/ Golden Celebration. Very vigorous growth, although the huge and heavy blooms are too much for he canes to support. Lovely color and strong fruity scent. The Ingenious Mr Fairchild - twiggy growth with a lot of blooms. Problem is that the spindly shoots are too weak to support the heavy blooms. The scent is an interesting mix of raspberry and others. Fairly thorny, vigorous growth. Can't help putting out its unique and lovely blossoms. No disease. Geoff Hamilton - Nice bushy growth, this one has some lovely flowers. A bright pink inside its compact petals fades quickly to quite. Lovely blooms. St Cecilia - The blooms were pretty nice and it was doing pretty well until it looks like it has succumbed to some sort of spider mite, or something. Blooms turn brown in the bud and the canes and leaves are sticky all over - haven't had the time to diagnose what has happened to it. Othello - Interesting almost pinkish red blooms. We were hoping for a dark red but this wasn't it. Vigorous growth, but holy crap.. the thorns. I had never seen such a thorny plant.. it was growing double rows of thorns rather like the teeth of a great white shark. The original canes had few thorns, but the new ones you could barely see the cane itself. Unfortunately the thorns and pinkish color caused us to give it away. Scepter'd Isle - Lovely petal formation, but the flowers don't seem to last, especially when cut. Currently throwing 10-14 ft tall canes with few flowers. We're waiting to reposition it at which point it'll probably be pruned back very heavily or turned into a climber. Not much scent to the blooms, although plant is disease free and almost thornless.
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Need Enabling... ;=)
Q
Comments (9)
I can vouch that Ceratostigma Plumbaginoides is not difficult in my garden. I think it will move faster in more sun and moisture, but it isn't anything you can't handle. I'd add a purple-variety Cimicifuga racemosa (actually several) to the dwarf plumbago. The purple foliage would contrast with the spirea nicely and it has white/pink blooms in late summer and early fall. It gets 2-3 feet of foliage and another foot or two of spikey bloom. It doesn't have a fragrant, purfumey scent, but a musky one. Some like it, some don't. It is also expensive and slow-growing. I bought 5 from forestfarm.com last year for about $8 each and they are healthy but still small. I hope they bloom this year. I see big ones at the nursery for $25. Cynthia, that's the look I aspire my shade bed to have. Nice work.
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lilgreenfrog
15 years ago
I only grow one of these - Burgundy Iceberg. I do like its flowers - they blow a little fast, but it puts on so many, I hardly notice. Its also a bit sprawling, but with some trimming it was more willing to grow vertically. One thing we noticed this year in our nasty heat was that the blossoms were fast to crisp. Not burn on the edges, but dry completely to a rusty reddish color in a few days. For us it has been very disease and bug resistant. Also, little dieback in zone 5 (with some protection). Oh, but you like them fragrant...this one has, to me, a nice but VERY faint scent.

I notice that several on your list are Bucks - there's another recent thread about fragrant Bucks. Someone did mention Blue Skies as being a good one...along with several others.

Hope that helps a little!

Lara
katefisher
15 years ago
I have a three year old Cl. Iceberg. I like it so far. Good grower, clean but I detect very little if any scent. Maybe it's just me but I don't get much there.

On the other hand my neighbor gave me the rose 'Intrigue' as a body bad this spring. It bloomed this morning and the scent is amazing. Even my husband the smoker noticed it and he can't smell anything.

Hope this helps.

Kate
kandaceshirley
Original Author
15 years ago
the bucks I put on the list were (mostly :D) mentioned as being very fragrant on the helpmefind website. I realize there are differences and what's breed to be very fragrant isn't always. I did check out the fragrant buck's thread also which is where I got some of mine to place on the list.
katefisher
15 years ago
Kandituft:

I told you wrong I'm sorry. My fragrant body bag is Heirloom not Intrigue. My mistake.

Kate
kandaceshirley
Original Author
15 years ago
I looked up intrigue and it's suppose to be fragrant too. I have a baby heirloom that I planted this year in the sunrise garden. I've only had one bloom so far, but it smelled wonderful! My top smeller right now though has got to be Jude.
barbarag_happy
15 years ago
For fragrance:
Margaret Merrill (I can't grow her, maybe YOU can!)
Mme. Isaac Pereire
Tradescant (not tops in fragrance but sooo beautiful)
Buff Beauty (froze out in Ohio so good luck)
Ebbtide
Earth Song (fragrance not so much, but a great garden rose)
and you're missing...
Buck's Quietness, a great garden rose. Hardiness, I dunno.
In your zone you should grow some rugosas-- no-spray, no disease, little dieback from freezes, and oh! so fragrant. Check out Fru Dagmar Hastrup, Wild Spice, Roserie de l'Hay, r. rugosa rubra and blanca.
Souvenir de la Malmaison and its sports Mystic Beauty and Souvenir de St. Ann's are heavenly but in your zone may stay very small and need coddling. They're all wonderful tho!
kandaceshirley
Original Author
15 years ago
this is just the kind of enabling I need, ok not need, but want...thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming...i thought quietness didn't have much of a scent?
greenhaven
15 years ago
I have PJPII and 2 Ebb Tides, all three are new to me this year. One Ebbie struggled quite a bit, still struggles. The other did very, very well and set over 60 buds on it's 'second' flush. JB's loved it, and rose slugs nearly defoliated it. The not-struggling one is doing absolutely NOTHING now. No new growth in over a month. But they are wonderfully scented.

PJPII is a favorite here! Extremely vigorous and healthy growth, and loads of heavenly scented blooms even it's first year here. The blooms also last pretty well in the vase, if I pick them just as they begin opening.
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
15 years ago
I'm in a totally different zone but love Ebb Tide and, probably even more so, Wild Blue Yonder. Ebb Tide is more fragrant, I think, but WBY has such a glowing color. I was told it wouldn't do much the first year but it's surprised me. Burgundy Iceberg is a great rebloomer but I don't detect much scent at all.

Ingrid
barbarag_happy
15 years ago
Quietness has the soft beauty of Bewitched and Sweet Surrender (both HT's) but is much, much easier to grow. However it has only a light, sweet scent-- maybe on a par with Belinda's Dream. It's been outstanding here; in fact if I could have ONLY ONE rose, Quietness would be the one.
opheliathornvt zone 5
15 years ago
I grow 3 of the ones you listed. PJPII is brand new this year, so I can't comment on hardiness, but so far it's a beautiful bush, and was VERY fragrant for me. Mme. Isaac Periere was severely pruned by the winter and is now about 3' tall. I don't think she'll ever get very tall. Also very fragrant. Buff Beauty I've had for probably 6 or 7 years now. It never gets very big for me, but is hardy without protection, and again, quite fragrant.
kandaceshirley
Original Author
15 years ago
thank you everyone for your suggestions and advice - there's just so many roses and so little space - i keep telling dh if we win the lottery i need at least 5 acres (and a gardner) for my roses- Right now I'm thinking these are for sure 1- PJP, 2 madame isaac perier, 3-tradescent, 4- buff beauty, 5- ebb tide, 6- earth song, 7 -silver shadows, 8-dagmar hartopp, 9=sharifa asma, 10-quietness, and 11= rose rugos roseraie de l'hay - and I figured burgunyd iceberg and margaret merrill are no's. OF course, while trying to figure this out, my list of possibilities somehow got longer, instead of shorter. Keep the suggestions coming - I'm still not sure about sweetness or many others
greenhaven
15 years ago
"OF course, while trying to figure this out, my list of possibilities somehow got longer, instead of shorter."
*****************

Ha ha, yeah, ain't that somethin', how that happens, lol?

I have a rose at home that is not on your list, but might be just the ticket. i tell everyone looking for roses about it, because it is so healthy and happy, even while living her eunder a tree all by itself with noone but God to take care of it for three years. At least.

Look up Rose de Rescht on HMF. The bloms are gorgeous, vibrant pink, and everything everybody says about it's overpowering, bewitching fragrance is so true.

I watered it today for maybe the second time all season, and it had TONS of new basal breaks, and no disease to speak of whatsoever. the only damage it incurs is where the pine tree drips sap onto the leaves. Can you blame her?

I wish I had a really spectacular picture of my own to share, but you will have to settle for web pics! ;o)
kandaceshirley
Original Author
15 years ago
well of course because while you're looking at fragrance and rebloom, etc you wander across these other lovely roses, but honestly have no idea how they'll grow for you, unless you ask - here's what's "left" of my original list - sort of in order the top ones are the most wanted
1- PJP
2- Gabriel Noyelle
3- Madame Isaac Periere (it's on my list every year)
4- buff beauty
5- sov de la malmaison
6- ebb tide
7-golden buddha/ardestiny
8-earth song
9-silver shadows
10-lady of the mist
11-bolero
12-intrigue
13-sharifa asma (also on my list every year, but never seem to buy)
14-francis debreuil
15-quietness
16-rosa rugosa de l'hay
17-souvenir de st anne's
18-moondance
19-tradescent
20-annie laurie mcdowell
21-desiree
22-dagmar hartopp
23-rose de rescht
24-sweetness
25-jacob's robe
26-autumn dusk
27-blue skies
28-enchanted autumn
29-musicale
30-prairie sunrise
31-wild ginger
32-winter susnet
33-alec's red
34-armotherapy
35-sammy
36-roberto capucci
37-callista
38-generosity
39-dignity
40-(any ever heard of "country time"?)
41-honey perfume
42-victorian memory/isabella skinner
43-lady angela
44-lady of the mist
45-margaret fuchs
46-night 'n' day
47-red tropicana
48-september morn
49-seventh heaven
50-sunburst
51-tropical fragrance
52-neptune
53-april in paris
54-picccolo pete
55-salet

my list more than doubled! so if you could pick 10 from the list which would you pick and which 10 would you definately not pick?
katefisher
15 years ago
I grow from your list PJP. It is new this year but I love it. The white blooms just glow.

I see you have Jacob's Robe on your list. I don't grow that but I grow one many people compare it to namely Joseph's Coat.
JC has become one of my favorite roses. I just love the way the colors of the blooms develop. I know you don't need another candidate for you list but here it is anyway.

Kate

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gentle enabling needed - need help with next year's choices

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gentle enabling needed - need help with next year's choices

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