How would you Winter-sow expensive seeds?

13 years ago

Hi guys, finally some of the snow is melting and I think I can get some containers out in the winter-sowing area soon. I went a little nuts ordering seeds in February because this winter was horrible and all the snow was making me stir-crazy. I ordered some expensive seeds from Swallowtail, including Echinacea Pow wow Wild Berry (10 seeds for $3.49) and Aquilegia Origami mixes (15 seeds for $3.49). I look back and wonder what was I thinking? I don't even really like the color of Pow wow!

Anyway, how would you sow seeds like this? Because they were relatively expensive, I want (and expect) all of them to sprout!

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (23)

caryltoo Z7/SE PA
13 years ago
Why would you sow them any differently than what you normally do, unless you usually just spread seeds thickly over the surface? In that case I'd make individual holes for each seed so I knew what kind of germination I got.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question?

Caryl
drippy
13 years ago
Check your germination requirements carefully - both echinacea & aquilegia need cold strat to germinate, I believe - I just don't know how much. Do you have enough time left? (Alternatively, do you have records from years past of times you sowed echinacea & aquilegia that germinated successfully?)
Related Discussions
stupid Q. - how to winter sow day lily seeds
Q
Comments (5)
I use little square flats for mine. My last three batches have been true wintersown. Over the weekend I decided to try a batch with summer sowing. I didn't cover the flat though, just left it in semi shade with some chicken wire over it to (barely) protect it from the wildlife. I'll have to water it every day. I put soil in the flat, poked the seeds in the soil and watered them in. I like to start them in a flat just so I can keep an eye on them. If I just put the seeds in the ground I will promptly forget about them. Yes, let the seed pods dry on the plant. The seed pods will split open when the seeds are ready. The daylily forum might have some more detailed info on that. Lisa
...See More
How do you winter sow rose seeds?
Q
Comments (1)
This was my first year doing it,some where winter sowed and some had to be put in fridge since I missed them and didn't get them out in time. I didn't do anything special just put them in damp soil in a pot covered in a plastic bag.
...See More
"How to Winter Sow Seeds Outdoors"
Q
Comments (0)
"How to Winter Sow Seeds Outdoors" It really is very easy to do. First, let me give you a little background as to why I sowed the seeds during the Winter. I live in a very small house, a cottage actually and I simply do not have room for a light set up, also any window space I have must be fought from the cat and "Prinny" likes to look out on the street and watch the world go by, so I have to give her a windowsill. She's a good cat and deserves her place in the sun. I got hooked on seed trading, and as you all know seed trading is like Pokeman......you gotta have 'em all. I had tons of seeds, I had them all. Though I am not a novice at gardening I am a novice at growing seeds, this was my second season doing so. Because of my lack of experience with growing seeds, and not having a light set up, I always traded for "easy to grow" seeds: I had to start them in the windowsill or out on the patio in flats during Spring and Summer which I did the previous year with good success too. I was thinking a lot last Winter about how I was going to start all these seeds, I needed an easy way out. I knew that many seeds needed to be pre-chilled, and I knew that many plants reseed and germinate outdoors without our intervention. I thought about this for a few days and put 2+2 together. I would sow them into flats, and take them outside for the Winter, if all went well then they would germinate in Spring. I am a true believer in "recycle and reuse". I had been saving my take-out containers from the Chinese restaurant (not those typical white boxes that have a metal handle and white rice inside), I was saving the foil pans that have a separate clear plastic lid, they're usually round or rectangular. These containers were just perfect.....plus I didn't have to go to a store and open up my wallet (hmm, look at all the moths fly out), if I can get away without having to lay down a buck I will. I did need soil though and so I went to Walmart and got their brand which was the cheapest I could find. Seed selection: Take a look at a seed catalogue, most will have some sort of notation about a seed's germination requirements, or you'll pick up a few clue-in phrases. Look for these terms: Needs Pre-chilling (freeze seeds, refrigerate seeds, stratify for x amount of day or weeks), Needs Stratification, Will Colonize, Self Sows, Sow outdoors in early Autumn, Sow outdoors in early Spring while nights are still cool, Sow outdoors in early Spring while frosts may still occur, Hardy Seeds, Seedlings can withstand frost, Can be direct sown early, Wildflower, Weed (such as butterfly weed, joe pye weed, jewel weed) Common Names indicating a natural environment: Plains Prairie Desert Mountain Swamp Field etc. Look for names that might indicate an origin in a temperate climate: Siberian Chinensis Polar Alpine Orientale Canadensis Russ (indicating Russian origin) etc. Think about your own garden, and your neighbors' gardens too. Do you find plants that have volunteered each spring and shown up as seedlings that you didn't sow? These are very good choices. (let's say that your orange marigolds have returned in Spring as volunteer seedlings.......you can then be pretty well assured that gold, or lemon, or African or French varieties will also reseed for you too, when it comes down to it a marigold is a marigold is a marigold). I like Park's Seed catalogue, it has a great germination table right in the middle of the catalogue. They have a numbered guide indicating the best germination requirements for seeds. I took a yellow highlighter and went down that numbered list and highlighted all the numbers that would be appropriate for Winter Sowing, then I carefully went through their list of seeds and highlighted the varieties that corresponded to the correct numbers. This is how I chose which varieties I would Winter Sow. A lot of catalogues, not just Parks, will have a germination table, or some information about germination, look at them, study them, and learn. To make a flat you take the foil container (of course it's clean, washed in hot soapy water) and a paring knife. Stab a few slits in the bottom of the pan, this is for drainage. Now fill the pan with soil to about a half inch from the top. Give it a real good drink and let it drain. I do this in my kitchen. (I have a sprayer on a hose at the sink and I use this for the watering, works well and doesn't gouge out holes in the soil). After the pan has drained sow your seeds and pat them down. Cover them with more soil to the correct depth if necessary. I like growing plants with tiny, tiny seeds, they're really just the very most easiest to sow. Sprinkle them on top of the soil, pat them down, and that's that. Now you need to put the lid on BUT FIRST.........and this is the very most important step.......take the knife and poke several slits in the clear plastic lid. This is for air transpiration. Think about it, you're making a little mini greenhouse. If you don't vent the air that is heated by the sun you'll cook your flat and the seeds won't germinate. You've baked them to death. Okay, put the lid on secure by folding down the foil rim. Now the seeds are sown. Uh oh.......back it up, I forgot a step that you may wish to use: labeling. I didn't label mine as I like surprises, however this concept may pop the heads of gardeners who enjoy having everything "just so". Get some freezer tape, or any tape that you know will work well after being frozen. Pull off a piece and stick it to the bottom of the flat. Write the variety name on it with a laundry marker (or a sharpie). You can do this before or after sowing, if you do it afterwards make sure you wipe the bottom of the flat well as freezer tape doesn't really adhere as good as you'd like to a damp surface. Label the tape before sticking it the bottom of the flat. The label is on the bottom of the flat because the sun can't bleach it down there. I haven't yet found a marker that won't bleach out in my strong Long Island sun. All right, the flat is now sown and covered (with little slits in the top, yes? don't forget!!). Now take it outside to somewhere it will be safe for the winter. I put them on a picnic table top away from my curious puppy. I learned my lesson, I lost a flat of daylilies (the first I sowed this way) because I put them on the ground under a bush and the puppy found them and thought the flat was a toy, and she promptly killed it by shaking it to death. After that all the flats went up on the table out of her reach. Sad loss, but an excellent lesson. Now you just wait it out. When the weather warms the flats will freeze and thaw repeatedly as winter gives way to spring. This action of freezing and thawing out helps loosen the seed coat. You'll often see the term "nick or file seeds prior to sowing" in germination databases: this is to duplicate Mother Nature's work (now you won't have to do that anymore). Amazingly, just when winter is about to break, and you're still getting nightly freezes, the first of your flats will begin to germinate. When I saw this I thought that the seedlings were goners, but they thrived. The seeds know when it's safe to come up, it's part of their genetics. Now is the time to check the moisture in the flats, on an above freezing day open them up and if they look like they need a drink give them one. The excess water will drain away. Don't forget to replace the lids tightly. As your seedlings grow start widening the slits in the covers, once a week or so make the slits a little bit bigger, eventually you'll have more open areas than covered and you'll be able to transplant the seedlings into the garden because they are completely hardened off. I have put in seedlings that barely had their first set of true leaves and they thrived in the ground. After transplant care is typically the same as for indoor sown seedlings. They need a drink and just a little bit of food: 10% strength after their first week in the ground, then increase slowly as the season progresses. After about eight weeks and a few feedings your seedlings will be able to take a full strength feeding. Alternate seed flats: I have used plastic milk jugs and 2 liter soda bottles too, just cut around the middle almost all the way through. Make the drainage slits. Fill with dirt, water, drain, sow, cover with more dirt (the same procedure as above). Tape the cut edges together and simply remove the cap for air transpiration. Cardboard orange juice or milk containers can be used with a baggie. Cut them in half, horizontally or vertically, make the drainage slits and sow your seeds by the same method above. Slip the flat into a baggie, tie it closed with a twist tie or a knot and use the knife to make a few slits for air transpiration, put a few slits in the bottom of the baggie for drainage. Coolwhip tubs: Make the drainage slits, sow your seeds as above. Take a scissors and cut out the center of the lid, leaving about an inch around the inside of the rim. Put a piece of saran wrap over the tub, put on the lid. This holds the saran wrap "window" snugly. Take the knife and make some slits in the saran wrap for air transpiration. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So that's how to do it, if I remember something that I have forgotten I'll post an addendum, but I think I have it all covered. The major principles of outdoor Winter Sowing are selecting the appropriate seeds for your plant zone, and providing adequate drainage and adequate air transpiration. Do all these and you'll have a success. Did all my flats germinate? NO! I had about eighty or so of these made and I had eight not germinate. Was it the seeds? Was it the method? Was it me? I don't know. But I did have around seventy flats that did germinate. Outside! I forgot to mention that I also used four kiddie pools. These were used the summer before as container gardens (lots of soil, lots of big slits for drainage). I simply direct sowed these and left them uncovered. They got snowed on, the snow melted, it rained while the base of the kiddie pools were still frozen and the rain didn't drain. They all were frozen with ice at least an inch thick.......aarrgghh, panic Panic PANIC....I couldn't do anything about it. When the warmer weather finally came the pools thawed and drained and the seeds came up! YEAH! That's it. As you see it's not hard to do at all and I sowed these flats at my leisure throughout the Winter. Everyone talks about going bonkers in January and February because they can't get out and do any meaningful gardening, and there are only only a few varieties of seeds which can be successfully sown this early indoors....frustration and gardening fever sets in. While all the other gardeners were chomping at the bit I was being self indulgent and playing with dirt and mud and seeds at my own lazy bones pace. I took a leap of faith doing this, I kept the faith, and I was rewarded. I believe in this method, it works, it really truly works. Too much emphasis has been made on indoor sowing under lights. It takes up time, it takes up space, white flies take to the air, damp off kills your effort, your seedlings, your spirit. Did I forget to mention that there was NO EVIL DAMP-OFF? The freezing action killed whatever nasties that are in the soil that cause young innocent seedlings to perish so tragically and so sadly. And it is sad, you take a lot of time and care in your efforts, the seedlings are sometimes almost like our "plant" children. It really is depressing when a flat of seedlings doesn't make it. I encourage everyone to try this Winter Sowing method, if you want to hold back some seeds the first time you try it that's great. Save some seeds to sow indoors of a variety you have placed in a Winter Sown flat, compare the differences in the seedlings, and then the compare plants when they mature. Learn from what you observe. Make your life and garden easy, let it flourish with flowers, grasses, vines, bushes, and trees you thought you couldn't even consider trying before now. Good luck to you all! Trudi Davidoff
...See More
How to Winter Sow Seeds Outdoors
Q
Comments (0)
Image by: Trudi DavidoffMini-greenhouses from recyclables! "How to Winter Sow Seeds Outdoors" It really is very easy to do. First, let me give you a little background as to why I sowed the seeds during the Winter. I live in a very small house, a cottage actually, and I simply do not have room for a light set up, also any window space I have must be fought from the cat and "Prinny" likes to look out on the street and watch the world go by, so I have to give her a windowsill. She's a good cat and deserves her place in the sun. I got hooked on seed trading, and as you all know seed trading is like Pokeman......you gotta have 'em all. I had tons of seeds, I had them all. Though I am not a novice at gardening I am a novice at growing seeds, this was my second season doing so. Because of my lack of experience with growing seeds, and not having a light set up, I always traded for "easy to grow" seeds: I had to start them in the windowsill or out on the patio in flats during Spring and Summer which I did the previous year with good success too. I was thinking a lot last Winter about how I was going to start all these seeds, I needed an easy way out. I knew that many seeds needed to be pre-chilled, and I knew that many plants reseed and germinate outdoors without our intervention. I thought about this for a few days and put 2+2 together. I would sow them into flats, and take them outside for the Winter, if all went well then they would germinate in Spring. I am a true believer in "recycle and reuse". I had been saving my take-out containers from the Chinese restaurant (not those typical white boxes that have a metal handle and white rice inside), I was saving the foil pans that have a separate clear plastic lid, they're usually round or rectangular. These containers were just perfect.....plus I didn't have to go to a store and open up my wallet (hmm, look at all the moths fly out), if I can get away without having to lay down a buck I will. I did need soil though and so I went to Walmart and got their brand which was the cheapest I could find. Seed selection: Take a look at a seed catalogue, most will have some sort of notation about a seed's germination requirements, or you'll pick up a few clue-in phrases. Look for these terms: Needs Pre-chilling (freeze seeds, refrigerate seeds, stratify for x amount of day or weeks) Needs Stratification Will Colonize Self Sows Sow outdoors in early Autumn Sow outdoors in early Spring while nights are still cool Sow outdoors in early Spring while frosts may still occur Hardy Seeds Seedlings can withstand frost Can be direct sown early Wildflower Weed (such as butterfly weed, joe pye weed, jewel weed) Look for Common Names indicating a natural environment: Plains Prairie Desert Mountain Swamp Field River etc. Look for names that might indicate an origin in a temperate climate: Siberian Chinensis Polar Alpine Orientale Canadensis Andean Russ (indicating Russian origin) etc. Think about your own garden, and your neighbors' gardens too. Do you find plants that have volunteered each spring and shown up as seedlings that you didn't sow? These are very good choices. (let's say that your orange marigolds have returned in Spring as volunteer seedlings.......you can then be pretty well assured that gold, or lemon, or African or French varieties will also reseed for you too, when it comes down to it a marigold is a marigold is a marigold). I like Park's Seed catalogue, it has a great germination table right in the middle of the catalogue. They have a numbered guide indicating the best germination requirements for seeds. I took a yellow highlighter and went down that numbered list and highlighted all the numbers that would be appropriate for Winter Sowing, then I carefully went through their list of seeds and highlighted the varieties that corresponded to the correct numbers. This is how I chose which varieties I would Winter Sow. A lot of catalogues, not just Parks, will have a germination table, or some information about germination, look at them, study them, and learn. To make a flat you take the foil container (of course it's clean, washed in hot soapy water) and a paring knife. Stab a few slits in the bottom of the pan, this is for drainage. Now fill the pan with soil to about a half inch from the top. Give it a real good drink and let it drain. I do this in my kitchen. (I have a sprayer on a hose at the sink and I use this for the watering, works well and doesn't gouge out holes in the soil). After the pan has drained sow your seeds and pat them down. Cover them with more soil to the correct depth if necessary. I like growing plants with tiny, tiny seeds, they're really just the very most easiest to sow. Sprinkle them on top of the soil, pat them down, and that's that. Now you need to put the lid on BUT FIRST.........and this is the very most important step.......take the knife and poke several slits in the clear plastic lid. This is for air transpiration. Think about it, you're making a little mini greenhouse. If you don't vent the air that is heated by the sun you'll cook your flat and the seeds won't germinate. You've baked them to death. Okay, put the lid on secure by folding down the foil rim. Now the seeds are sown. Uh oh.......back it up, I forgot a step that you may wish to use: labeling. I didn't label mine as I like surprises, however this concept may pop the heads of gardeners who enjoy having everything "just so". Get some freezer tape, or any tape that you know will work well after being frozen. Pull off a piece and stick it to the bottom of the flat. Write the variety name on it with a laundry marker (or a sharpie). You can do this before or after sowing, if you do it afterwards make sure you wipe the bottom of the flat well as freezer tape doesn't really adhere as good as you'd like to a damp surface. Label the tape before sticking it the bottom of the flat. The label is on the bottom of the flat because the sun can't bleach it down there. I haven't yet found a marker that won't bleach out in my strong Long Island sun. All right, the flat is now sown and covered (with little slits in the top, yes? don't forget!!). Now take it outside to somewhere it will be safe for the winter. I put them on a picnic table top away from my curious puppy. I learned my lesson, I lost a flat of daylilies (the first I sowed this way) because I put them on the ground under a bush and the puppy found them and thought the flat was a toy, and she promptly killed it by shaking it to death. After that all the flats went up on the table out of her reach. Sad loss, but an excellent lesson. Now you just wait it out. When the weather warms the flats will freeze and thaw repeatedly as winter gives way to spring. This action of freezing and thawing out helps loosen the seed coat. You'll often see the term "nick or file seeds prior to sowing" in germination databases: this is to duplicate Mother Nature's work (now you won't have to do that anymore). Amazingly, just when winter is about to break, and you're still getting nightly freezes, the first of your flats will begin to germinate. When I saw this I thought that the seedlings were goners, but they thrived. The seeds know when it's safe to come up, it's part of their genetics. Now is the time to check the moisture in the flats, on an above freezing day open them up and if they look like they need a drink give them one. The excess water will drain away. Don't forget to replace the lids tightly. As your seedlings grow start widening the slits in the covers, once a week or so make the slits a little bit bigger, eventually you'll have more open areas than covered and you'll be able to transplant the seedlings into the garden because they are completely hardened off. I have put in seedlings that barely had their first set of true leaves and they thrived in the ground. After transplant care is typically the same as for indoor sown seedlings. They need a drink and just a little bit of food: 10% strength after their first week in the ground, then increase slowly as the season progresses. After about eight weeks and a few feedings your seedlings will be able to take a full strength feeding. Alternate seed flats: I have used plastic milk jugs and 2 liter soda bottles too, just cut around the middle almost all the way through. Make the drainage slits. Fill with dirt, water, drain, sow, cover with more dirt (the same procedure as above). Tape the cut edges together and simply remove the cap for air transpiration. Cardboard orange juice or milk containers can be used with a baggie. Cut them in half, horizontally or vertically, make the drainage slits and sow your seeds by the same method above. Slip the flat into a baggie, tie it closed with a twist tie or a knot and use the knife to make a few slits for air transpiration, put a few slits in the bottom of the baggie for drainage. Coolwhip tubs: Make the drainage slits, sow your seeds as above. Take a scissors and cut out the center of the lid, leaving about an inch around the inside of the rim. Put a piece of saran wrap over the tub, put on the lid. This holds the saran wrap "window" snugly. Take the knife and make some slits in the saran wrap for air transpiration. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So that's how to do it, if I remember something that I have forgotten I'll post an addendum, but I think I have it all covered. The major principles of outdoor Winter Sowing are selecting the appropriate seeds for your plant zone, and providing adequate drainage and adequate air transpiration. Do all these and you'll have a success. Did all my flats germinate? NO! I had about eighty or so of these made and I had eight not germinate. Was it the seeds? Was it the method? Was it me? I don't know. But I did have around seventy flats that did germinate. Outside! I forgot to mention that I also used four kiddie pools. These were used the summer before as container gardens (lots of soil, lots of big slits for drainage). I simply direct sowed these and left them uncovered. They got snowed on, the snow melted, it rained while the base of the kiddie pools were still frozen and the rain didn't drain. They all were frozen with ice at least an inch thick.......aarrgghh, panic Panic PANIC....I couldn't do anything about it. When the warmer weather finally came the pools thawed and drained and the seeds came up! YEAH! That's it. As you see it's not hard to do at all and I sowed these flats at my leisure throughout the Winter. Everyone talks about going bonkers in January and February because they can't get out and do any meaningful gardening, and there are only only a few varieties of seeds which can be successfully sown this early indoors....frustration and gardening fever sets in. While all the other gardeners were chomping at the bit I was being self indulgent and playing with dirt and mud and seeds at my own lazy bones pace. I took a leap of faith doing this, I kept the faith, and I was rewarded. I believe in this method, it works, it really truly works. Too much emphasis has been made on indoor sowing under lights. It takes up time, it takes up space, white flies take to the air, damp off kills your effort, your seedlings, your spirit. Did I forget to mention that there was NO EVIL DAMP-OFF? The freezing action killed whatever nasties that are in the soil that cause young innocent seedlings to perish so tragically and so sadly. And it is sad, you take a lot of time and care in your efforts, the seedlings are sometimes almost like our "plant" children. It really is depressing when a flat of seedlings doesn't make it. I encourage everyone to try this Winter Sowing method, if you want to hold back some seeds the first time you try it that's great. Save some seeds to sow indoors of a variety you have placed in a Winter Sown flat, compare the differences in the seedlings, and then the compare plants when they mature. Learn from what you observe. Make your life and garden easy, let it flourish with flowers, grasses, vines, bushes, trees, and vegetables, you thought you couldn't even consider trying before now. Good luck to you all! Trudi Davidoff
...See More
countrycarolyn
13 years ago
I paid dearly for my climbing blueberry, and I sowed it via winter sowing. I have not seen one sprout. Kinda erks me but I am not giving up the hope for it. Like you it was 10 seeds for like almost 5 bucks. Honestly I try not to think about it!!

Surface sow in a container via wintersowing, is how I would do it. I do not know for sure but I think the columbine maybe 2 weeks cold for sure. Echinacea, I have had a few sprouts with no cold stratification, but I had more when I accidently over wintered it.
gardenweed_z6a
13 years ago
Due to some misleading information I found on the web, I had Echinacea on my list of seeds that don't need cold stratification. I also bought Pow Wow Wild Berry - from Hazzards - 50 seeds for $13. I was going down my list of cold strat seeds and something made me look again. Sure enough, I found several links that said Echinacea needs cold stratification. I WS the seeds in milk jugs same as most other seeds but I placed them about 1 1/4 inch apart to give them plenty of room once they sprout. Aside from that they got no "special" treatment. I WS Echinacea seeds from trades last year and got excellent germination so I'm expecting every one of these PWWB seeds to germinate.
kqcrna
13 years ago
Neither of those need cold strat if the seeds are very fresh. Columbine do best with fluctuating temps so I'd do them both asap.

I have to say, I usually get good germination from Swallowtail Seeds.

Karen
terrene
Original Author
13 years ago
I'm not really asking about those specific seeds, I think there is plenty of time left for both Echinacea and Aquilegia.

Usually, I scatter a bunch of seeds on the top of the potting mix, press into soil, moisten, and throw 'em out there. Am not obsessive about exactly how many I sowed or how many sprouted. With these seeds, I want to monitor each and every seed. So with expensive seeds that you have few of, would you use a particular container, sow fewer seeds per container, or even sow indoors? That kind of thing.
livsauntieshel
13 years ago
Personally, and I'm a newb so, take this with a grain of salt, my more expensive seeds are getting sown 2 to a cup. These are mostly petunias, because those buggers do get darn expensive. I'm also doing them in groups, say for instance I bought 2 10 seed packs of silver tidal waves. There were approx 12-14 seeds per pack. I did one pack last week, and I'm going to wait til maybe April 1st, if I can, to do the second pack.

FWIW last year before I heard of winter sowing, I sowed columbine seeds in May. Great germination. No flowers, but planted out at end of summer. We'll see soon if they come back. I didn't stratify my seeds at all, I think they were sown the day I bought them at Lowes.
gardenweed_z6a
13 years ago
Sorry if I misunderstood what you were asking. The answer is no--I would not sow them different just because they cost more than others. They're not "special" in terms of germination, only that they're new and everyone wants to grow them so the price is insanely high. Give them a few years and you won't be able to give the seeds away.

I wouldn't sow them indoors--WS is a far better method of growing perennials from seed with (from my experience) substantially higher germination rates than indoor sowing. I didn't sow fewer seeds per container nor did I use a "special" container. They got a clean milk jug with plenty of moist growing medium same as all the others.

I WS Echinacea seeds from trades on 12/24/09; they sprouted April 2, 2010. I'll take note of how well the PWWB seeds germinate in a few more weeks and let you know what % germination I get.
terrene
Original Author
13 years ago
And I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, and appreciate everyone's input. Sorry to hear you have no germination on your "climbing blueberry" CC. Now gotta go over to google and find out what is climbing blueberry.

Honestly Gardenweed, I want all 10 of those PWWB seeds to germinate, and not lose any down the side of a milk jug! I'll be curious to see how yours and mine do.

Livsauntie, I bought expensive Petunia seeds too - and some pelletized Foxglove - told you I went a little nuts. :) You have good ideas for a newb, I think I'll try using smaller containers (16 oz cups or 1 LTR bottles) and sow 2 or 3 seeds per container. And will only sow some of the seeds in the pack and not blow all of them at once.
gardenweed_z6a
13 years ago
I probably should have kept a few PWWB seeds back but "in for a penny; in for a pound" ruled the day and I decided to just go for it. I only WS my share (half) of the seeds--I split the order with Gardencrazy/Glenna in OH. Terrene - are you (like me) under the impression these bloom first year from seed or is that just wishful thinking on my part?
morz8 - Washington Coast
13 years ago
Terrene, what I do with expensive seeds is the same as I do for all, I look them up and see what is the most logical way to sow them.

Pow Wow WB is c. purpurea - it may need no chill but a brief moist chill may help germination so WS won't hurt it and could help - I don't think it's one I'd sow on the solstice though, it wouldn't have to go out that early. And I do sow fewer per pot to make sure I don't end up with expensive seedlings that are difficult to separate, I'd be comfortable sowing 10 echinacea in one of my 4x5" pots.

A. caerulea Origami is another that won't be hurt by a moist chill but it may not need it. Clothiers places it in with the group that contains a. longissima (sow at 68F and be very patient) - I've WS longissima with great results. I do find other suggestions that make it sound like it will benefit from temp drops at night so I wouldn't sow indoors under lights, just a little later in winter or even early Spring. I've never lost a seed down the side of a container, but I lightly press my barely damp soil before thoroughly moistening it, preparing the pots just like I would for indoors. (OT - two of the sources I've used and will use again for hellebores, $1 per seed before shipping fees)

CC - Billardiera longiflora. First vine purchased as a plant, not grown from seed. Mine has been damaged by temps in Z8, this is native to Tasmania - in fact one young vine I planted next door was outright killed two winters ago while my more mature plant was severely cut back by cold. Seeds sown immediately when ripe (early Fall, late Summer) may germinate first Spring, allowed to dry and it could take two (mild) winters.
morz8 - Washington Coast
13 years ago
Gardenweed, if you are finding confusing information on echinacea, it may be because some types do require a moist chill and others don't - Then there is that group that may germinate with no chill, but germination may or may not be improved by chilling. I've sown purpurea indoors under lights, but haven't found a chill hurts any of them either :)
terrene
Original Author
13 years ago
Gardenweed - I've read that PWWB will bloom a little the first year from seed, but get the impression that you would have to start them very early under lights for that to happen. I do not expect that to happen with WSing (at this point, we are heading towards Spring sowing).

Morz, thanks for info, I've lurked over on the Lily Auction and some of those Daylily seeds and starts go for a pretty penny too!

As for E. purpurea, I did a germination test last winter on some 'White Swan' seeds I collected in Fall 2009 - spread them in a flat tupperware and spritzed them and got excellent germination without any cold stratification. So I suspect that PWWB will be fine with sowing now, especially in zone 5.

Also, I sowed A. caerulea 'Mixed colors' on February 28th of last year and got especially good germination with the first sprout appearing on April 7th. So I don't think this is too late.

I've lost seeds when the soil has shifted, especially in milk jugs because the jug is somewhat wobbly. This year I've dumped about $70 into more specialized seeds and am hoping to get the most bang for the buck.
gardenweed_z6a
13 years ago
Thanks for that perspective morz8 - I did my homework before embarking on my first WS adventure in 2009/2010 and had Echinacea on the non-stratification list. Did the seeds germinate? Certainly, but since I WS them in December, I honestly couldn't say whether the cold winter months helped germination. I used the same cold stratification list this year but I checked a few specific seeds again to be sure the information I had was still accurate. That's when I came across a couple of websites that recommended cold stratification for Echinacea seeds so I moved them from the non-strat list to the cold strat list. This time I WS them mid-January and expect they'll do just as well this year as all the cultivars I grew last year. If they're on my WS seed list again next time, I'll go by whichever method appears to produce the best results.
countrycarolyn
13 years ago
You nailed it morz, those sound like the same sowing instructions that I found when searching it out. I sowed the seeds within the same week I got them from summerhills, ugh.

Terenne now, I kinda wished I would of babied them more. Though I will be honest I suck at growing anything indoors, unless it is illegal, just teasing I haven't done that since I was a teenager. LOL
terrene
Original Author
13 years ago
Yes CC that might have been a plant that would have done well with some babying indoors. Honestly I had pretty good luck starting stuff from seed under lights for years, but winter-sowing is so much easier! I would still consider GUL (growing under lights) in special circumstances.

I got some Daylily seeds this winter on the Seed Exchange through a SASBE offer, and the poster (Jeanne_OH) specifically instructed that the seeds could not be winter-sowed or they would die. They can be started inside under lights or at a sunny window, but after doing a little research on growing daylilies from seed, read that some people sow them outside in the spring after the danger of frost has passed. I decided to wait until it warms up and sow them outside with my heat-lovers.
kqcrna
13 years ago
Clothier says
"Echinacea pallida, and purpurea , Sow at 20Ã¯Â¿Â½C (68Ã¯Â¿Â½F), if no germination in 3-4 wks, move to -4 to +4Ã¯Â¿Â½C (24-39Ã¯Â¿Â½F) for 2-4 wks

Echinacea angustifolia, paradoxa, and tennesseensis , Sow at 18-22Ã¯Â¿Â½C (64-71Ã¯Â¿Â½F) for 2-4 wks, move to 4Ã¯Â¿Â½C (40Ã¯Â¿Â½F) for 9 wks, move to 10Ã¯Â¿Â½C (50Ã¯Â¿Â½F) for germination"

Aquilegia alpina , buergeriana, canadensis, flabellata, formosa, glandulosa, nevadensis, saximontana, transylvanica, viridiflora, and vulgaris, Sow at Max. 5Ã¯Â¿Â½C (41Ã¯Â¿Â½F), germination irregular, often several months

Aquilegia atrata , Sow at 18-22Ã¯Â¿Â½C (64-71Ã¯Â¿Â½F) for 2-4 wks, move to -4 to +4Ã¯Â¿Â½C (24-39Ã¯Â¿Â½F) for 4-6 wks, move to 5-12Ã¯Â¿Â½C (41-53Ã¯Â¿Â½F) for germination

Aquilegia bertolonii, caerulea, clematiflora, laramiensis, longissima, rockii, scopulorum, and siberica Ã¯Â¿Â½, Sow at 20Ã¯Â¿Â½C (68Ã¯Â¿Â½F), germination slow may take several months

Aquilegia chrysantha, , Sow at 20Ã¯Â¿Â½C (68Ã¯Â¿Â½F), if no germination in 3-4 wks, move to -4 to +4Ã¯Â¿Â½C (24-39Ã¯Â¿Â½F) for 2-4 wks

Aquilegia olympica , Sow at 20Ã¯Â¿Â½C (68Ã¯Â¿Â½F), if no germination in 3-4 wks, move to -4 to +4Ã¯Â¿Â½C (24-39Ã¯Â¿Â½F) indefinitely.
rosemctier
13 years ago
terrene, if you are still thinking about containers for your expensive seeds, i have found that windshield wiper fluid containers are much sturdier than milk cartons. i raided the trash cans outside of our autozone and pulled out about 10 in one trip, or maybe a local car place would save some for you?

I know what you guys mean about expensive seeds-- i have invested heavily in daylily seeds this year and have been fretting about them all winter. finally i ran out of space and time and now they are all potted up in various stages-- some sprouting in the bathroom, some still seeds in cups doing the on the rocks method, some outside the greenhouse in a traditional wintersown way, and some in the greenhouse (unheated) with the lids off because i ran out of flat space for containers outside lol. i figure the greenhouse is one big ws container; i just have to remember to water. add all that to the vast collection of seeds other than daylily i have started. i have lost my mind! LOL i can't wait for the green wave you experienced wsers talk about-- high hopes and all fingers crossed :)
noinwi
13 years ago
I bought 5 Hinnomaki gooseberry seeds for $3 and put them out with the other WSing...crossing my fingers...
littleonefb
13 years ago
Terene,

Your columbine origami mixed color seeds will bloom the first year from seed.

I planted mine a few years ago in mid March and they bloomed in June through the end of July.
They have a long bloom period, rebloom actually and you don't need to dead head them.

A friend of mine sowed some of my origami blue seeds last spring, in mid April and they bloomed for her all of the month of July.

Since your's are mixed colors, you don't know what each plant will bloom in color till the bloom.

You might want to plant each seedling as an individual until it blooms. Once you know which seedling is which color, when they finish blooming, you can move the plants into clumps of like colors to have larger plants for next year.

If you don't care if they bloom mixed together than just plant them as clumps.

I sowed mine, but they where all individual colors in cottage cheese containers, with about 15 seeds together in each container sort of scattered in the center of the container.
then I planted the seedlings as one clump. If you purchase the plants in the nurseries, it is usually in a large container that has at least 10 plants in it.

That's how a friend of mine that owns a farm and greenhouse in the area I live in sows seeds, and told me how to sow the seeds.

They are worth the time to sow and the expense, they are a beautiful long term bloomer and stay nice and bushy, not to tall, not to short.

Fran
terrene
Original Author
13 years ago
Hey Fran, thanks for the info! Part of the reason I bought the Origami seeds were the pics you posted awhile back, and because they bloom the first year. Also they are gorgeous - LOVE that Columbine. But let me clarify - I wrote "Origami mixes" in the first post, but really meant the single colors. That's why they were more expensive. I wanted to plan the colors, bought the Blue & white, Pink & White, White, Yellow, & Rose Queen. Wooopeee!

Last year I bought and winter-sowed A. caerulea 'Mixed Colors' from Everwilde. Those will hopefully bloom this year, but the colors will be a surprise.
mnwsgal
13 years ago
I have been pondering this same question, how to best maximize results from expensive seed?

I have decided to ws some in a milk jug as seem to get best results in them. Am also going to try a few seeds in a 2L.

I have too many veg. seeds that needed to be started inside and don't want to do the same for expensive perennials.
countrycarolyn
13 years ago
WHOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!!! I got a sprout out of my climbing blueberry!!! Notice I said A sprout!! But I am Ok with that!!

My luck watch it be a weed, but dog gone it till I see any difference it is climbing blueberry, WHOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!! LOL

How would you Winter-sow expensive seeds?

Comments (23)

caryltoo Z7/SE PA

drippy

Related Discussions

countrycarolyn

gardenweed_z6a

kqcrna

terrene
Original Author

livsauntieshel

gardenweed_z6a

terrene
Original Author

gardenweed_z6a

morz8 - Washington Coast

morz8 - Washington Coast

terrene
Original Author

gardenweed_z6a

countrycarolyn

terrene
Original Author

kqcrna

rosemctier

noinwi

littleonefb

terrene
Original Author

mnwsgal

countrycarolyn

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

How would you Winter-sow expensive seeds?

Comments (23)

Related Discussions

terreneOriginal Author

terreneOriginal Author

terreneOriginal Author

terreneOriginal Author

terreneOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

terrene
Original Author

terrene
Original Author

terrene
Original Author

terrene
Original Author

terrene
Original Author