What color would you like? What size is the bed?

I'm curious.... what kind of coddling have your Knockouts required? And I would love to know why you are disappointed in them now. Petaloid asks good questions for replacement suggestions.

Curiously,
Cathy

I have retained 3 Double Knockouts (own root) that get morning shade and full harsh sun all afternoon. I don't do much pampering, but they are irrigated and fed about 2 or 3 times per year with both organic and slow release fertilizer. I also throw some compost and coffee grounds around them. They are very healthy, no spray and are always in full bloom. They are very, very thorny though. They are much prettier than the original Knockouts, and they remain more manageable in size. The growth habit is bushy, but still somewhat stiff. For the time being they are fine, but if they ever displease me I would not hesitate to yank them.

I removed all my other (53 of them) "original" Knockouts. They were the most thorny monsters I have ever encountered. Knockouts are not what all the marketing hype has trumped them up to be. Thrips and Spider Mites like them, and despite the claim that they are totally disease free, they can still suffer from fungal diseases once in awhile, just as any other living plant can. I sure do NOT miss them!

I would really like to hear why you were not happy with yours....just curious.

The older floribunda "Valentine" that I got from the Antique Rose Emporium, does well with western exposure, blooms a lot, needs no spray, and is nearly thornless. Very showy(red), but still a soft look to the flowers. Doesn't HAVE to be deadheaded, but looks nicer if cleaned up periodically.

Sandy

Sandy,

Could you provide a list of roses that you've grown that bloom as much as Knockouts and are equally disease resistant in a no-spray garden? I'm curious to know what alternatives are out there.

Robert

Valentine is an excellent bloomer, but it will flush out and then pause slightly before the next huge flush. I think if you were to deadhead then there probably wouldn't be a pause. People rave over Valentine and always want to know what it is. Several have ordered it because they like it so well. It stays small, about 3 feet or so, and I never spray it. It can tolerate partial shade during the day that is thrown by the Crepe Myrtle in the afternoon. I suspect Valentine is as tough as boot leather.

I'm not sure if you can grow teas or chinas in your zone, but the tea Mrs. BR Cant (who gets quite large), and the china Archduke Charles is putting on as much of a show as Knockout did. Archduke is more mannerly in growth and Malcolm manners says he can be kept a manageable size with pruning if desired, although he doesn't appear to be a monster bush anyway. I absolutely never spray any of these. Mrs BR will get a cruddy leaf or two, but not much.

Archduke is perfect. I mass planted 13 Archduke Charles and they are very pretty. The flower form suffers in our heat during the summer, but he is usually viewed from a slight distance anyway. Besides, Knockouts flowers were nothing to brag about other than the color.

I am having excellent results with Lady Hillingdon, Mutabilis, Maggie, Madame Lombard, Spice (a thrips magnet), Trinity (a white Bermuda Mystery Rose). No disease at all. I also have had Bermuda's Anna Olivier in the ground almost 2 years and she has foliage that is almost always flawless. Blooms constantly. In fact, she is always loaded with flowers. I deadhead her now and then which I'm sure helps. Thrips like the flowers in the spring, but they don't seem to be bothering her right now. I have heard Bon Silene and Safrano stay clean with no spray. None of these are floribunda size roses, with the exception that Spice can be kept smaller if desired. My Anna Olivier seems to be a smaller tea.

Some of the polyanthas I put in this year that I haven't sprayed and are clean are Mrs. RM Finch, Gruss an Auchen, Lullaby (in a pot),Leonie Lamesch, Clotilde Soupert (thrips like him), Cecile Brunner.

The floribunda Julia Child seems to get by without spray since last fall. She's a very pretty yellow. Our Lady of Guadaloupe, a pink floribunda, also has not been sprayed since then and looks great.

Nachitoches Moisette, Francis Dubreuil, the tea William R Smith, and Crepuscule (noisette climber) do not get sprayed and have flawless leaves. They went in earlier this year.

The ones I have had the longest have been the Archduke Charles, Lady Hillingdon, Madame Lombard, Spice, Trinity, Valentine(over 2 years), Julia Child, and Our lady of Guadaloupe. I think it helps if they are spaced well, have plenty of sun and water, and no sprinkler systems hitting them.

Not sure if any of this helps, but I truly hate spraying and am trying to work my way into a no spray garden, although I don't mind giving them a once over in the spring after pruning. That's it though. I am fussy about how my bushes look, and all of the above must know how I can be with a shovel, so they have been great roses.

Sandy

Just jumping in here with my opinion only. If you have to mollycoddle Knockout and cannot get a good plant and/or bloom, perhaps roses are not for you or there is something wrong with the rootstock, or lack thereof, the soil or coddling too much. Knockout is one of the toughest, if not toughtest roses and has the ability to grow where planted and do well without any care. If you had said you did not like the bloom or the color, I would understand but to say it has to be coddled, leaves me scratching my head and can only guess the rootstock, soil or water (lack of) must be the problem. I have a huge bed of (my husband's garden) 2-year-old Knockouts that have had nothing but occasional water and they bloom repeatedly and show no sign of disease.

Sandy,

Thanks so much for your suggestions..I have almost all of the roses you've mentioned, and they're still quite young. The teas and chinas got significant damage with the Easter freeze, so it's hard to get a good feeling on them. I'm really beginning to think I'm not watering the roses enough to get them to perform. I'm changing that now. I'm a rather patient guy, so I will give them about 5 years...

Patricia, I'm with you on the Knockouts. I do see a thousandfold improvement since I've moved the Knockouts to beds where they get sufficient water. I've actually moved them into my pastel Tea bed (Mrs. Dudley Cross, Lady Hillingdon, Isabella Sprunt, etc.). I think the loudness of the Knockouts will help the pale Teas..If it doesn't work, I'll move them again...

Robert