I'd recommend looking up the Eastern Native Tree Society's website and start reading the various articles that are listed (by species, by region, etc.). We specialize in measuring and documenting large trees, but the knowledge we as a group have of forest ecology is impressive.

radagast: I'll do that. Thank you.

I've been looking for an online or distance learning program that will allow me to learn more about trees and the issues discussed in these forums.

With all due respect Pam, of course my statement is self-serving, because my website is trying to snag book buyers. I believe good books are the best source of material, far superior to information on the web. That's because most web material is just copied from books anyhow; because good publishers have their books vetted and reviewed; and because books are far more likely to cite references. Also, much internet material is anonymous, while most books say something about the authors' qualifications and experience.
The internet will of course aid in finding the right book for what you wish to know more about.
Formal instruction with field trips, and use of good books, are optimal.

pinetree, You write books. Your website is a way to market your books. I don't view your statements as self-serving at all. In my experience, many (most?) people really don't take the time to learn about subjects that interest them. They have good intentions, but other things take precedence.

I am willing to spend time learning, but, like you, I write books, maintain a website, publish an online newsletter, and do 20+ training programs a year. We are on the road 100-120 days a year. So I am looking for a good distance learning or self study program that I can pursue when life permits. As I search, I am learning many new things - and that's great.

Last year I took a class on landscaping for the homeowner. It was a community education course that ran 1 night a week for 10 weeks. Although we obviously didn't have time to truly get in-depth info on trees, it was a good starting point in learning about native trees/shrubs as well as other popular trees popular for landscape use.

Pam, you can take books with you on the road, and read when an on-line source may not be accessible or available - hotel lobbies, airports, planes, etc. I don't have any book connections other than liking them..., and with a book, or 2, you can flip back and forth more easily than on-line, comparing one to another. The main drawback with books is the weight...

Try Timber Press for new books. I had some luck finding a few books on trees in used book stores' "stalls" at the San Francisco Flower Show a few years ago, so other large plant gatherings may well have similar venders, if you can get to them - I know Philadelphia has a large show every spring. Books I have found helpful include H. L. Flint's Landscape Plants For Eastern North America, pub. by Wiley-Interscience, A. Mitchell and D. Moore's The Trees of North America, Facts on File Publication, I. Zucker's Flowering Shrubs and Small Trees, Freidman/Fairfax Books and H. Johnson's Encyclopedia of Trees, Portland House. The various tree identification books are also helpful, esp. the more portable ones, as you can carry them with you and identify (or try to) the plants you see as you travel (and they are usually light weight!).

A good source for used books is AddAll books - an association of a number of used book dealers - http:/used.addall.com. I typed in "trees" as the keyword and got 28 pages, ranging from an edition of Gerard's Herballe for $11,000, to a copy of 100 Useful trees (I think) for $13.00, those just on the first page.

Ooops, I goofed! The correct address for AddAll Books is http://used.addall.com/. I'll try to link it below... Sorry 'bout that.

Here is a link that might be useful: AdAll Books

Pam:

The following link may be of some help, but it is designed for foresters and you may want to use your skim reading skills to find what is useful. It is the standard text for "silvics" of North American trees. "Silvics" is a fancy or technical word meaning generally how trees grow in a forest, including diseases, reproduction, growth stages, growing sites, etc.

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_1/vol1_Table_of_contents.htm

If for some reason this link doesn't work, just google "silvics" and the silvics manual should be at the top of the search results list.

Another standard book for those interested in tree diseases, pests, and tree care generally is P.P Pirone, Tree Maintanance, Oxford U Press.

--Spruce

The woody plants bible for most of us is Michael Dirr's
Manual of Woody Landscape Plants. The single best reference book on the subject. Read it and you will learn heaps.
best,
mindy

dibbit, Spruce and mindy: Thanks for your recommendations. I want to learn more and be able to find answers to questions on my own. I use the search engine on GW - that often helps. Other times, I see an interesting discussion on a completely different topic, and get sidetracked.

dibbit: Thanks for the recommendations. There are so many books, but most are not that good. It really helps to have recommendations from others. You're right about the Addall site - they have an amazing selection.

Mindy: I have Dirr's Trees and Shrubs for Warm Climates and Dirr's Hardy Trees and Shrubs, but not his Manul of Woody Landscape Plants - it sounds like you prefer the latter. I'll take a look.

Spruce: I'll check out the silvics link. I'm trying to create some structure to the learning process. I'm reading, reading, reading but on so many different topics at the same time, it feels haphazard. Maybe this is immersion study! In one of my sidetracks, I found your advice about how to plant a tree - amazing. (link below)

I want to thank you for recommending "Knowing Your Trees" from the American Forestry Service. I got a copy of the 9th edition published in Nov 1947. I'll never have your tree recognition skills but this book is helping to jump start the learning process.

Many thanks,
Pam

Here is a link that might be useful: How to Transplate Seedlings & Trees

It sounds to me like you are asking for something that I am really not sure if it exists...or if it does, what value it would possess. It sounds like you are asking for an Intro to Hort class taught on-line. I'm really not sure if that particular beast exists.

As far as just general info goes, Janick wrote a book called Horticultural Science. Perhaps it has been replaced now, but it was at one time practically a standard intro reference. If propagation is more your thing, there are many possible selections. Hartman et al, Plant Propagation is a good starting point.

I do concur with your assessment that most books found in the gardening section leave much to be desired. A place I have found many books from is a mail order catalogue out of CT from a company called Edward R. Hamilton.

www.ERHamilton.com or Google Edward R. Hamilton, Booksellers.

www.amerinursery.com Select shop for books, software, and more, generally more technical books, geared for plant geeks.

Most anything from Timber Press.

Pam, I must disagree. The 1947 American Forestry Association book came out at a time when science had barely arrived in the world of trees. It is completely outmoded, with virtually no ecological, genetic, or evolutionary viewpoint, and it focuses on trees of economic value for wood products, some of which no longer are used.

heptacodium - Yes, you are right - I'm looking for quality online courses on horticulture. It seems that you have questions about the value of courses delivered online. Is this accurate? If so, why?

As pinetree said earlier, "Formal instruction with field trips, and use of good books, are optimal." I certainly agree with this statement. However, some (many?) individuals who are are highly motivated to learn do not have access to traditional instruction at a university. The university that offers horticulture programs nearest to me is Virginia Tech, 300 miles away.

I visited the site you recommended, www.ERHamilton.com - they do have an interesting and diverse selection of books. I've bookmarked it.

pinetree - I bought the book, "Knowing Your Trees," because my tree identification skills are pathetic. Throughout my life, I've lived in places where most landscaping decisions - like which trees to plant - were made long before I arrived. I focused on smaller stuff - perennials and small shrubs in those days.

Now I live on a 5 acre piece of land on the Chesapeake Bay - the land is flat with few trees. If I make expand my knowledge and make the right decisions, I can transform this land into something very good. First, I need to learn more about several subjects - the lack of quality instructional programs is an obstacles I'm trying to remove.

Pinetree:

I am guilty of recommending the old edition of Knowing Your Trees to Pam. I had this book (actually the 1937 edition) when I was a kid in the mid '40's and learned to identify trees from their general characteristics as illustrated in the photos. Not as precise as using the keys of the dendrology text I had in forestry school. But the main reason I recommended the book to Pam was the really outstanding photos (which were still in the 1947 edition)--black and white--of many of the trees. I would have to make a count to give a good number, but I would say that at least a dozen and perhaps many more are the finest pictures I have seen of those species of trees anywhere, For example, the coast redwood and the American elm, among many others. But sadly most of those pictures have been dropped from the later editions, maybe because of worn plates or something.

--Spruce

I know what you mean Spruce -- some of those photos were iconic, showing old-growth specimens that once defined their species.Probably from Forest Service archives. But it is outmoded, and there are many good regional or state-level tree books available. Unfortunately, most of those are field guides that tell you little beyond what species you have; but some do have decent content and can be read like an actual book.

"Listen to the tree touchers, and build bridges. I have always had the highest respect for the people who touch trees every working day." Alex Shigo
From seed collection for propagation to digging and transplanting finished stock, the way to learn is by doing.
How could one learn to play piano w/o sitting down at the piano and practicing? This cannot be learned from a website.
When I ID a tree I use all the senses. Look on the ground for remnants of last year's fruit. Crush and smell the leaves/buds, observe the sap. What is the texture and color of upper and lower leaf surface, observe flower and fruit characteristics if possible. Go on fieldtrips with knowledgeable people and listen and learn. Go all year round.
Also learn who not to take advice from. Those who nuke trees with poison, top or round-over trees and those who plant under utility lines, I would shun their advice.
I avoid coffee-table books. Their space is taken up with pretty pictures and text is superficial.
Much knowledge can be self-taught. Why does lightening strike some species and not others? When I have questions about an individual tree I seek out the owner.
If Pam wants to learn about Bald Cypress take a trip to Battle Creek Cypress Swamp nr Prince Frederick MD. You can learn more this way than from a computer screen.
Sam

I apologize for the delay responding to your suggestions. Our son is in the Army and will be deployed to Iraq within in a few weeks. Last weekend, we had a big party for him, his wife, and their friends - that took all my time, energy and emotions.

Spruce: I want to thank you for recommending "Knowing Your Trees." The book is helping me to learn, and it is unlike other books I've seen. I know it was written for a different audience in a different era. It goes without saying that knowledge has changed since it was published in 1947. I think the photos make it a classic. I'm sorry you caught flack about it. You have offered me so much encouragement (loblollies, groves) since I discovered this forum. I want thank you for that too.

Sam, pinetree: I don't use "coffee table books." I have other books - Field Guide: Eastern Trees (Peterson), Field Guide to Trees: Eastern Region (National Audubon Society), Common Plants of the Mid-Atlantic Coast: A Field Guide (Silberhorn), and a Field Guide to the Chesapeake Bay that has a section on trees. IMO, each has strengths and weaknesses.

If either of you or anyone else can recommend better references, I would be very grateful.

I don't rely exclusively on websites I do find good information on the Internet. I read books. I plant. I observe. I pay attention. I live in a rural area. I have no teacher, no mentor, no formal training, so I ask questions. I have many more questions but don't because I know would wear out my welcome very quickly. I use the search engine to find answers - that is a boon.

I don't know what good online courses are available through universities YET but I'll bet they are out there. I'll keep searching. I think a few good courses would help me learn the basics faster. No, this is not the same as taking courses taught by knowledgeable, inspiring teachers. Since this option is not available to me, I'll continue to do what I'm doing now - reading, doing, observing, and asking occasional questions here.

Sam, you wrote, "If Pam wants to learn about Bald Cypress take a trip to Battle Creek Cypress Swamp nr Prince Frederick MD. You can learn more this way than from a computer screen."

I guess you remembered my bald cypress crisis. I'm happy to report that all the bald cypresses are recovering. All have new growth. The largest tree has leafed out to the leader. When I saw this, I was ecstatic. I continue to water and added more mulch (no more than 4 inches, and a few inches from the trunk).

The winds are still strong in afternoons and evenings, but no longer 20-25 mph, day after day for 2 weeks - accompanied by temps in the high 90s. Because conditions improved, and I continued to give the trees what they needed, they are recovering. I am thankful for the advice I received on this forum. Although some people were criticial, others were encouraging and I didn't give up.

As to your comment about learning from trips, I agree. I wish I could take more trips but my work schedule is erratic with long hours so I cannot do this as often as I would like. When we are on the road, I try to stop at places that have been recommended.

Thanks to all for your patience with my interminable questions.

Pam

Pam, I would say that the Hugh Johnson book may be informative, but I would also say that it isn't very good as a reference book. I bought it with high hopes from the reviews I had read in several (gardening) magazines, but when I tried to look up specifics, the index is NOT user friendly, nor well done; I got references to the correct info mostly, but then the referred citation was non-existant, or had no page number attached. Avoid it, unless you just like its looks!

High winds are very drying, so with new trees, you have to double or triple your watering schedule sometimes. I am glad your trees are doing well, or at least better!