After reading my post I thought I should clarify, I stated "The reason you have maggots is because you don't have any browns in the pile"...

thats not true as written, because even a pile well balanced with browns and greens can still get maggots.... maggots are more likely to occur in an unmixed cool pile... which is what you have because you haven't added any browns to mix in.

I wouldn't keep adding water....the pile could get too wet and go anaerobic, which stinks and is more gross than maggots are.

A compost thermometer is not necessary.

And I wouldn't add worms to an active compost pile.... especially if you are attempting to heat it up (per the thermometer question). Worms don't really like a hot pile, they prefer a cool operation.

IME, you don't need to add worms, they will show up when the compost is ready for them.

I agree with the above. Your pile is already far too wet or you wouldn't have maggots in the first place. And pouring on more boiling water only does more damage to the contents. Wet piles attracts the flies that lay the eggs that become the maggots.

Maggots can be quite beneficial to the decomposition process - they pose no harm - and do some good in the pile. Learn to live with them if you plan to compost as composting isn't always a pretty process. ;)

However their presence in large numbers indicates a pile that was too wet to begin with and not well balanced in components. Dry the pile out and they will leave.

You don't mention any of the additives you are using other than grass clippings which joe pointed out are a green (nitrogen) and yes, they are still a green even when dried first. You need a good source of dry carbons (browns). A pile that is properly balanced in carbons and nitrogens and not kept overly wet won't have maggots or only very few.

Dave

I totally agree with the above answers. Been there, done that with maggots, had too much grass clippings that were cut soon after a rain. Too wet and too much nitrogen. Add dried leaves when you get them, even some dry soil, or shredded paper or shredded or torn newspaper. Pile should be just a bit moist, they say like a wrung out sponge, not wet. Turning the pile, i.e. aerating well also help. I like having some twigs and sticks which keeps things from sticking and clumping together, i.e. it helps things aerate. I have found that grass clippings and fruit are the worst things to attract flies/maggots. I always try to cover any fruit in there with shredded paper.

IME, the moisture of pile has little effect on the presence or absence of maggots...

Maggots absolutely require three things: warmth, moisture and food. Even having two of the three conditions will discourage flies from laying eggs there. Under the proper conditions, the time from a fly laying eggs to the hatching of the maggots can be as short as eight hours.

I think Dave is totally correct in his assessment of your problem: too much moisture. Maggots cannot exist in drier conditions. Your compost should just be damp, not wet.

When you add fresh grass clippings, scatter them rather thinly as you add other ingredients; don't just dump a big lump of them in, or maggots is what you'll get, as you're providing the three things they need. If you have more grass clippings than you have other ingredients, you might want to spread them thinly on an open area (in Las Vegas, I used the driveway), and turn and fluff once or twice a day to dry them out. Then add the drier grass to the compost as you get and add other materials.

If you can, open and air your compost pile and let it dry out a bit. Maybe you can hire a kid on your street to do it. Boys like gross things like that. Just stand back and direct, and don't add any more water.

Sue

Thanks everyone!
I live in the desert in NM so I'll take the lid off my pile and let it dry and try to round up some browns. I am guessing paper grocery bags and straw would count?
And what do you think? Should I at some point in the next few months cover the pile and let it sit all winter and then use it in Spring??
And I guess I'll just let the maggots there live out their life cycle..even though they DISGUST me. UGH! BLAGH!
Ok, I'm done.

I agree with haven that maggots need food, moisture and warmth... all of which are the key components to a good compost pile.

Moist as a wrung out sponge, is just the perfect moisture for maggots.

A pile that is so moist that it goes anaerobic, is bad for maggots. They need oxygen too.

The presence of maggots in a compost pile is an indication the material is too wet. Maggots need a wet, very damp, and warm environment to hatch and then they need a fairly airy place and most often you will see them on the top of a compost pile, not in it and maggots will eat most anything although rotting food is a favorite. Adding dryer material, turning the pile (so the maggots get buried where they will die), or putting a dessicant over them will help. But maggots are not something you want in your compost pile.

I would like to take a poll.

I want everyone who has ever had maggots in their pile, comment on the moisture level that they had at the time.

Every time I've had a critter explosion, my pile was on the dry side. It was unmixed, unshredded and its always a bit dry. I think the lack of mixing and shredding and lack of a thick cover of browns is a greater factor than the moisture.

My experience contradicts the moisture theory. So I'd like to hear from people who've actually had maggots and what they felt was the cause.

I have maggots before I started my compost in a bin in which the soil was collected from the top soil of a starfruit tree. I then added 2 showels of soil from the bin to my new compost.

Maggots start to increase in an incredible speed as I think my pile was too wet. It was too wet as I can see it during the turning. I didn't add any water nor brown then. I turned it a week later expected to see even more. Thanks god it doesn't. My pile is now getting even wetter due to daily rain here in Kuala Lumpur though I covered it. The rain will still come in through the side as I wanted to let the air come in. err....

I agreed with kimmsr and the rest of them... it is too wet!

Engy

I've had housefly maggots in my garbage cans when I missed trash day and they sat with spoiled chicken for a week. I've had housefly maggots in my car under my child's carseat. I've had some kind of truly, truly HORRIFYING maggot infestation under an 11' x 14' wool rug in my living room. WTF! And I've had them so thick in the middle of my compost pile I couldn't see the compost.

You have to know whether you have housefly maggots or black soldier fly maggots. Housefly maggots are smaller and thinner, 1/2 inch max. and they stay creamy white. BSFL are longer and fatter 1/2 to 3/4 inch and tend to be tan to brown.

Obviously you don't want housefly maggots. HF eggs must remain moist to hatch in 8-20 hours. The maggots are shiny, greasy looking things with thin skins that dry out easily. Adults are strong fliers, and will go from rotten chicken juice in the bottom of a garbage can to a pile of dog poop and then straight to your potato salad. HF spit on everything to dissolve it, and suck up the liquid into one end while pooping out the other end. Any bacteria/diseases are spread around freely.

Black soldier fly maggots are laid at the dry edges refuse. They take over 100 hr to hatch, and start out small and creamy, but end up plump and brown. The skin is tough and leathery so they survive dry conditions, and they survive anaerobic conditions. Adults only live 5-8 days and have no mouth parts. They don't eat at all, and are weak fliers.

BSF are incredible eaters. They don't need rotted material, but can munch down on fresh scraps before it rots and develops odors. They have pheromone systems that warn off other flies, so they actually inhibit housefly population. BSFL are used actively in processing manure on pig farms, and are happy companions in a vermicomposting setup since BSFL chew the cellulose into tiny pieces while eating proteins, fats, sugars. The castings are not completely digested, but have been quickly and odorlessly processed into easy to eat redworm treat.

I think if you have housefly maggots in your compost...it must be in soppy wet, high protein, undisturbed conditions for days and it probably stinks to high heaven.

Dry piles will not get rid of BSFL. I turned my pile every three days instead, so that edge laid eggs were put inside where they were cooked in the heat, or just plain eaten by their prospective cousins. I did let it dry out, too. I had a few BSFL still, and let the pile finish.
After spreading most of it around, the remainder was only 4-6 inches deep, and as dry as anybody could wish after 3 1/2 weeks of burning drought with no additions of any kind. I scraped up the rest in a mercy mission to my mother. I found an increased population of black soldier fly larvae.

When my Christmas puppy peed on my rug, I blotted it and applied PetZyme. I bet he peed there a dozen times, and I'd blot it up with paper towels and treat it. Months later, my rug certainly was not wet, but it still had an odor. I cannot overstate my shaking, tight chested horror when I moved all the furniture to take it up for cleaning. The underside was dense with a few thousand maggots--all protected from my vacuum and completely out of site. Looking back, I realize they were BSFL from all the times I'd leave the back door open for soft, spring air. I cringe just thinking about it still.

BSFL are unwelcome in my pile. The whole rug thing just scarred me. I can handle a few, but I'm really after a healthy bacterial population for my soil. I'm not really processing waste, or producing fertilizer. I'm making a soil amendment full of soil food web booster. I want my greens to hang around long enough to rot without being eaten. I want heat.

I think turning is more important than keeping the pile on the dry side of damp, but both are helpful.

I'm blaming Patsy, if I have maggot carpet nightmares tonight!

That is really gross!

I am glad that I got rid of all my carpeting a few years ago. I replaced all the flooring with either wood or ceramic tile. It wasn't cheap, but I did it to improve my allergies. And yes, cleaning up after dogs is much easier without carpeting.

When I get home tonight I will be moving all my furniture and checking all my throw rugs, to make sure I don't have indoor maggots. Thanks for the paranoia Patsy! :-0

Heh, heh, you're welcome joe. I can also tell you about my son's python that got out of his cage. We couldn't find him anywhere, and figured he got out the low open window in his basement home (I was painting and needed the ventilation.) Five months later the basement toilet wasn't flushing well, and I was sitting next to it on the floor, thinking about having to call a plumber. I noticed a drooping loop of python showing under the rim of the bowl. He'd been in the toilet the whole time.

Can't say I've found any maggots in my compost, not in the ten years I've been composting. Now that I live in New Mexico, I water the compost nearly every day because it dries out so quickly. I don't want the worms at the bottom of the pile to leave because their environment has become too dry. My compost is never too wet because I don't soak it.

Hey, good thing you didn't already add your worms to your bin because that boiling water would have cooked them! The maggots will become flies and your infestation will be over. Put the lid back on your bin after a couple of days and keep adding to your compost throughout the winter. I fill my bin up with dry leaves several times throughout winter, and continue to add kitchen scraps as well.

Yea, maggots are gross, but they aren't going to hurt anything. Doctors in field hospitals in VietNam, during the war, used maggots in the wounds of soldiers to clean out infection when antibiotics were not available. Many soldiers were saved from having to have amputations because of those maggots.

Lorna

Fly maggots may have some good uses but one of them is not the compost pile. While some places do us maggots to reduce their manure piles that the maggots do reduce the volume of manure says they probably should not be in your compost consuming the material you put in there for use in your garden. The bacteria that digest your material live, grow and die in your compost while the fly maggots hatch, digest (eat) your compost, pupate into the adult fly and leave having used a large amount of your compost to grow. Since maggots do require a fairly moist envrionment to live in their presence in your compost is an indication that your compost is too wet for the proper bacteria to work and seldom will you find a compost pile infested with maggots reaching the 130 degree temperatures that indicate active thermophilic bacterial activity.

kimmsr, have you had maggots in your pile?

Yes, yes! Kimmsr, I came to that exact conclusion myself! When I was looking at five pounds of BSFL in my pile, I thought, 'Man, there goes two cubic yards of grass clippings and coffee grounds.' The little beggars leave my pile to pupate and the adults don't have a fly graveyard in my garden.

I wasn't going to post that, since I fessed up the whole rug trauma, it obviously isn't my main gripe. But I thought to myself, on a forum where most people will dig the spouse's potato peelings back out of the kitchen trash, and people save a toothpick for the pile, how can they let go of all that nitrogen? It's like a penny saved is a penny earned.

You guys need to agree to disagree. It's about a personal preference whether to go hot, bacterial compost for the soil food web intensity, or go a more laid back, cool, maggot assisted worm type compost. It's just not a black and white decision, no matter that each of you have made apparently firm choices.

I also got stuck on heating up my pile with so many maggots, because they rip through greens material so fast, it's a challenge to overwhelm their capacity to get any bacterial heat for weed seed killing. I had to add 2 huge bags of grass clippings and another huge bag of coffee ground and save urine to boot. I grant you, if I had all that sitting around to be disposed of it would be great, since instead of going stinky and slimy it just got hot. Instead, I drove around on trash day pretty far since I HAD to find grass clippings, and made extra trips to Starbucks to get enough coffee grounds (I usually only actively scavenge for leaves.)

Don't misunderstand my point, Larvae in a pile does have disadvantages and advantages just like many other ingredients and management styles for compost.

The gross factor alone should be enough to encourage a person to manage their pile to eliminate the crunching oozing masses of larvae.

But they don't take all of their feast with them, they do poop. And they leave shells, pure protein. And yes, you do loose some energy when they fly away.

My biggest disagreement with kimmsr, is the moisture thing. Its simply not true that a pile that has maggots or BSF is TOO moist. That is the misinformation, that is continued to be repeated on this forum.

I've learned a lot on this forum. I really hate it when false information is perpetuated as fact. And then it gets repeated over and over again.

But the fact is if you have maggots or BSF, your pile may or may not be too moist. And in my own personal experience, my pile is more likely to get larvae when my pile is on the dry side.

I envision a questioning poster unnecessarily drying out their piles, slowing down their compost operation, when in fact a simple mixing or cover probably would have sufficed.

Yes, I see. Well, I know you can have BSFL in very dry conditions. I swear my rug story is true. Who would make that up on theirselves??? LOL! And the solution was, in fact, to turn the rug over.

But don't vacuum your pile. Or take it to the dry cleaners.

Yes, I have had maggots in one or more of the compost piles I have had over the years and after turning the piles and adding more, dryer stuff (because I found that the material was too wet) they ceased to exist. I have not had maggots in any of my compost piles in several years however, since I put the cover on, and have controlled the moisture level of the compost better and in 40 plus years of composting I have not seen maggots in compost piles unless there was too much moisture in that compost.

I found some maggots in my compost a few days ago when I was sifting to use in a very small backyard garden. This is my first go around with composting so everyone please go easy on me...
at any rate - I believe they are housefly maggots - not black fly larvae - and they are dispersed throughout the pile. My pile is on the dry side, no meats or fats, many dried leaves, coffee grounds, no grass clippings- mostly vegetable matter (we don't eat meat). It has no offensive odor what so ever, is a rich brown color - but not black - and when sifted is just moist enough to hold a ball in my hands for a few seconds. It doesn't seem to be holding a lot of heat - so maybe that's a problem?
I have a pile of all leaves next to the pile and after reading some of the posts on this thread added some of the dark moist stuff from the bottom of that pile (where I found some worms)
I turn the compost regularly - probably 2-3 time a week -
like I said - there is no huge infestation - but they are there - I want to use the stuff this season - basically now - to add into my gardening soil -
thanks for any subsequent posts

goodfreeman: You might be overdoing it a little by mixing 2-3 times/week. That much mixing can actually cool the pile considerably.

Though a compost thermometer isn't necessary, it can be kind of fun/interesting/helpful. My usual method is to flip the entire pile, make additions of greens and browns mixed, and moisture if necessary. It usually heats to 130- to 160 degrees within a day or two. As long as it stays hot, I leave it undisturbed. Any fresh additions are just thrown on top without disturbing the rest. It will stay hot for at least 4 or 5 days, sometimes weeks if it's a big pile. When the temp drops to around 100 or 110, I flip and mix the whole thing, mix well, add moisture if needed, etc., then repeat the cycle. My active pile has now not dropped below 120 in several weeks.

Karen

This is a little off topic but...

About 15 years ago, while living in Los Angeles, I had a compost pile colonized by a huge number of Japanese beetle grubs the size of my pinky finger. I went through the pile and removed a bucket full of them.

Thinking back on it it now, my compost pile contained a large ammount of mellon rinds and was probably overly moist.

Here is a link that might be useful: Scarabs

I want to use the stuff this season - basically now - to add into my gardening soil -

Go ahead and use it. They won't hurt anything and most will just die from exposure. It you can spread it out on plastic or a tarp first for a day in the sun and let it dry more there will be even less of them.

For future reference, I agree with the others - a bit less turning=more heat and less bugs.

when sifted is just moist enough to hold a ball in my hands for a few seconds.

That could still be too wet. Ideal would be no ball/clump at all but it is no big thing. ;)

Dave

You know what is really gross? Lobster.

My advice is to learn to love the maggots. The only problem is you, after all. Why let pride get in the way; you are stirring garbage to make dirt. Oh they are disgusting and icky, but...We cannot all be butterflies. They do what they do. They love it. They do your dirty work. Wonderful. They ask nothing of you.

Or, if you really want a good cry, behold their woeful countenance and despair... someday we will all be food for worms.

My experience is that they like wet. The wetter the better. I have marvelled before at how they actually stir the ooze, even in hot, nearly anaerobic conditions. In fact, the pupae usually cannot live in those conditions, so there is not such a fly problem if you get them swimming. In my compost pile, they seem to concentrate in sugary wastes or protein wastes. They pupate and develop to black flies and just fly away. They are great teammates to worms and they seem to prefer respectively different foods and areas.

I have 40 liters of what I believe to be almost pure blackfly poo. Not sure what to do with it, but it is moist and creamy. I have some ideas.

Many that will state that having the larva, maggots, of the Black Soldier Fly also are those that have mistaken the BSF for the Black Soldier Beetle which is a predator that is good to have in your garden. The only thing an adult Black Soldier Fly does is mate and lay eggs that become the maggots you see in moist environments. Some research has found that the larva, the maggots, of the Black Soldier Fly does a good job of consuming manure piles so if you want your compost to be eaten by these wee buggers keep it moist and allow them to hatch and grow and they will. Since the Black Soldier Fly has no real purpose in life the larva of theses useless creatures do not belong in our compost piles.

The worst maggot experience I had was with BSFL in a black plastic bin (Earth Machine type) used to compost 5-10 lb per day of coffee grounds and food waste from an office building. We use a daily cover of wood shavings/sawdust to help dry and balance the mix, but it is layered into the bin and not mixed in. When we started this project we had horrible soldier fly larvae the first summer. From research I decided we should try drying it out better so we put the bin up on a forklift pallet to improve drainage of the wet food waste. Voila, we rarely have this problem anymore, and it's been 10 years. That's my story. Wetness.

BSF larvae are so bad for compost that people have patented entire composting systems to encourage them as the primary decomposers of waste.

Once had maggots on the top of my pile. Suspected excess water as the cause.

I seriously cannot tell if there are several sarcastic posts in a row (especially by Mr. Organic himself Kimmsr), but last time I checked, BSFL were god's gift to the compost pile and breaking down excess food waste. In fact, combined with red wigglers they could probably single-handedly solve the landfill problem

If I did miss the sarcasm, I apologize and will supplement this thread with a reactive "haha"

haha

I'm no sissy, not bothered by bugs or critters, can clean up stuff most can't, don't even get grossed out if I run across maggots BUT after reading this entire thread, I have heard and read as much as I ever wanted about the subject and I hope I can clear my head before sleeping. I think we need to ask ourselves if we truly want to be considered authorities on various flies and their maggots. We got way too many contributors with way too much technical info here. I can get really excited talking soil, composting, gardening but I think I just found my limit. It's really neat though that y'all can enjoy swapping all this info.

Takadi, I think the point above was that BSFL will not leave any compost for ammending the soil. I've had them in my worm bin and am not bothered by them at all. If I saw them in my raised beds I might be a bit upset, they'd be eating all my growing media. Of course my beds aren't that wet so no worries.

My idea was that BSFL left compost only when there wasn't any more "fresh" rotting or decaying matter left. I had tons of BSFL in my compost pile but once I left it to age completely BSFL never came back despite how wet it got (and we'd been getting huge rains lately). Plus, since BSFL only go for wet, anaerobic-ish, high protein sugar wastes, I'd see them as doing you a huge favor in getting rid of wastes that might attract houseflies, vermin, and might stink up your pile. In in fact, I see them leaving the pile as more suitable environment for earthworms, as they absolutely love any pile of mine that previously had BSFL.

One thing I don't think was mentioned, is that under the right conditions there will be so many BSFL that the surface of the compost will be seething with them, to the point it actually makes noise. It's like a science fiction movie. Now a few here and there are OK, but that, IMHO, is over the line!

One last thing: if you kill them, by heating up the pile or whatever mechanism, they do not decompose, and you will have big dead soldier fly larvae in your finished compost.

Ha, I found this thread when doing a search to see if anyone else in the world is crazy enough to consider flushing a bunch of BSF larvae down the toilet to work on the septic tank. LOL

To add to this old-but-good thread, I've had writhing, pulsating hordes of BSF larvae in my compost pile when I've tossed in certain kitchen scraps. Specifically, they seem to LOOOOOVE cantaloupe and used coffee grounds. Like toxcrusadr said, it's like a science fiction movie... or really, a horror movie (watching them feast on a dead cantaloupe is akin to seeing them working on a dead body).

If anyone doubts the value of maggots in composting, read the article linked below... it's creepy, disgusting, yet fascinating!

Still, even knowing the value they can have in a compost bin, I prefer maggotless composting... so I don't toss in cantaloupes too often any more (and Patsy's horror story has reassured me that it's a good thing we don't use area rugs on our hardwood floors!!). :D

Here is a link that might be useful: Adventures in Composting... with Maggots!

Thanks for the link, MrsJohnnyG. I didn't know they secreted chemicals that killed bacteria--I didn't think I could hate them any more, but I do. So much for my soil food web!

I know it has been two years since the last post, but I feel this is the most relevant to my situation.
I have a compost bin in an old garbage can, however, I didn't have a lid for it, so obviously it became soaked. Soon after, the maggots appeared. (I have absolutely no BSF larvae, so don't start on that.) The first step I took in attempting to get rid of them was drying them out. I found a lid, and turned the pile until it was at a normal/dry level. But the maggots stayed. I have no problem with them as they do contribute to breaking down produce quickly, but I didn't want to be contributing to a growth in the population of a pathogen-carrying insect.
Finally I found a solution. I took clear painter's tarp and laid it over the can, then secured it so there was absolutely no air exchange. Then, I put it in the sun. I watched as temperatures climbed to 180 degrees for two days, then I removed the tarp and stirred...no maggots!! Even the ones that are presumably dead have already begun to decompose.
I just wanted to share that my solution wasn't found in the mix, as once they infested, they stayed, but rather, it was found in changing the temperature. Happy composting!