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Great Lakes Roses Shutting Down

16 years ago

For everyone in my area, I am really sad. I just heard that Great Lakes is closing down. This is the place where

I can get my Antiques, Rugosas, Canadian (all sorts),

Old Shrub Roses, Bucks, etc. etc. I know that there are

places other than this to get some of these but, not potted

and ready to plant. Just wanted to express my concern.

John

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Comments (18)

st_rose
16 years ago
It seems that a lot of small rose nurseries are shutting down. I read in ARS Magazine that people's interest in old garden roses is waning. Ordinary gardeners prefer the newer easy care shrub roses of the old garden roses. In my opinion, most ordinary gardeners really want the modern hybrid tea or floribunda, if not their difficulties sometimes. So it is no wonder that a lot of the old garden roses nurseries are closing down.
jerijen
16 years ago
In my opinion, most ordinary gardeners really want the modern hybrid tea or floribunda,

*** I think the truth is that the average person doesn't know the difference between one sort of rose or another. They go to Home Depot, and buy ". . . a pink 'un, and a yaller 'un, and a red 'un, a white 'un, and an orange 'un." They don't know HT from Tea, from Floribunda, from Shrub -- though some of them recognize Jackson & Perkins, and some have heard of "Austins."
If Reine des Violettes is in the bin at HD, they'll buy it as a "purple 'un." If Sterling Silver is in the bin, gawd help 'em, they'll buy that.
Running a small business is tough, and it's getting tougher all the time. I feel badly about every rose vendor we lose.

Jeri
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I wish I had written down everything DH told me he wanted me to post about his impressions of the day, because now I can't remember it! He listens more than he talks.(Has to, I never shut up and he can't get a word in edge-wise!) But, when he does talk it's all good. He really fell for Connie's and Robert's gardens. These are the first personal gardens of any size that he's been in. And he loved it. I'm not good enough with words to do either of these gardens justice, but I will try. When our GPS said we had arrived at our destination we both were looking around thinking that it was wrong. The first thing DH said was, "I don't see any flowers." But, there were cars so we squeezed in at the edge of the driveway and headed around back. Let me tell you- there's a "whole 'nother" world behind Robert's house! I don't know how many years he has been working on it, but it is so lush. Lots of structures and many roses overhead. There are mature trees that give much needed shade on a hot day as well as the mature roses. We couldn't take it all in. I walked around with my mouth hanging open. There weren't many blooms left, but we expected that. There was still so much to see. Alfred asked me later how many houses Robert had, that he thought he counted at least 4. I only saw 1 actual house (And maybe an apartment over the garage. If there was another I missed it), but at least 4 other buildings that Robert had used to create different garden areas. Oh why didn't I have the presence of mind to take more pictures? I know that some of us have dial-up, so I will just post this one here and post the rest on the gallery. I tried the smaller size, but it didn't show up well enough. Please forgive my amateur 'point & shoot' photos. When I took this I was sitting on Robert's patio with my back to his house looking down across one area of his back yard. On my left (out of pic) is a tall garden wall with a see through iron gate that connects his house to his garage. Through the gate and across the driveway is a small greenhouse and a HUGE rose garden with a rose tunnel as well as other structures for the roses. On the other side of the rose garden is a 'Ginormous' (that's what my grandkids would call it) fishing pond! Just out of the pic in front of me and to the left is a shady area with a small fish pond providing the cooling sound of water. So peaceful. On my right is the wonderful outdoor 4 season kitchen. A true room (floor, ceiling, walls wrapped in windows) with all of the amenities-sink,fridge,cabinets,tables,chairs, including a huge brick fireplace. I can just imagine sitting in front of a roaring fire looking down across the garden watching it snow. Behind the kitchen is another large patio with a pergola. You can catch a glimpse of the end of it. Below Robert and Jim and to the right a tiny bit is a dining area that will be enclosed when the roses and companion vines grow over the arches. You can see some of them and the umbrella over the table if you look really hard! Lots of thought, planning and hard work went into this garden. I can't wait to go back. Since I've written a book here, I'll stop for now. See you in the gallery, Betty
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There are some David Austin English roses in most of the local public rose gardens. Bakers Nursery, 40th Str north of Osborn in Phx, had the largest selection this winter but that still only amounted to about 20 of them. The website and catalogue features many, many more.... all bred for form and fragrance. Depending on your sniffer, some will have more scent than others. When Austins became more widely available in the US, Phoenix rosarians poo-poohed the idea that cool-weather roses wouldn't like our heat and they were proved right on many of them. In particular, Prospero, Golden Celebration and Molineax do very well in my garden. Several others shut down in summer. Fair Bianca has the grayish brown blooms of other whites. Due to our warm weather, several Austins grown as shrubs in other climates can be grown as short climbers in ours. I cage my floppers in large tomato cages until the canes are strong enough to support the blooms. The cages are strong enough to hold them up but cheap enough to take wire snips to when no longer needed. Try www.davidaustinroses.com for the online catalogue. Check with Bakers to see what they still have available. They'll be several dollars cheaper than ordering online plus you don't want to be ordering roses in 100F temps.
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I didnt come back earlier to clarify my comments and respond, bcs I wasnÂt making myself that clear, I didn't think I could do it well enough to get you to understand me, and I honestly thought it was best just to let it die. But since this has been revived, IÂll try. IÂve come off looking like a completely different kind of snob than I am. HereÂs one thing in my own life that makes me think "who you know" influences you in ways one doesnÂt think about. I didnÂt join a sorority in collegeÂit never OCCURRED to me. Why not? Bcs I didnÂt know anyone whoÂd ever been part of one. However, kids I went to school with, didÂand in fact, assumed everyone would. Bcs in their circle, it was something the grownups around them had done. So in that way, I learned that the attitudes, jobs, leisure activites, interests, hobbies, etc., are influenced by who youÂre around as a kid. I think lots of people experience something like this, and that influences why they pick a certain neighborhoodÂthey want to influence what sort of circle their kids are surrounded by. My first point is that the people mentioned who pick their neighborhood according to the income level and perceived "type of people" who live there, are approaching neighborhoods as an* aggregate.* That fact that inside a crummy neighborhood there are great people is beside the point. They're picking a neighborhood, not individuals. When I was a kid, I lived in a town w/ 3 levels of housing: crummy, medium, and rich. It was a small townÂ1,500 peopleÂso I knew the people who lived in each type of housingÂI went to school w/ their kids, delivered their paper, heard about their activities outside their homes (clubs, work, arrests, manners or lack of, spending patterns, etc.) I was a kid, so I didnÂt know ALL the details, but I knew the broad strokes of many peoplesÂ lives. The actual people that I knew who lived in the crummy housing were often (not always, but often): - badly organized (as evidenced by their front lawns, side lawns, and garages, as well as by their work history, which I knew), - not particularly visionary in terms of where they wanted to go w/ (as evidenced by their choice of profession, attention to educationÂhigh school, training, or even collegeÂwhich was known to me, bcs the people were known to me) - not particularly reliable (as evidenced by their work history and spending patterns) - more likely to have unstable personal relationships or tempers (in fact, though I mentioned stealing, I probably shouldnÂt have--the biggest reason I wouldnÂt hire someone from the crummy housing in my hometown is that most of the ones I knew anything about were unreliable, sloppy, and inconsiderateÂtheyÂd leave the paint can on the lawn, or be more likely to spill it all over the grass, or something, bcs they donÂt think itÂs a problem. And yes, the workers from the crummy housing in my home town were the ones most likely to get arrested for pilfering or stealing or fighting or driving drunkÂwe read the arrest records and conviction records in the newspaper. The ones from the non-crummy housing didnÂt have these problems.) These things existed in the medium and rich housing as well, but not as often, and not as severe. Or not as publicly, so I didnÂt notice it. I had some really good friends in the crummy housing (who were also someof the things above, but my friends nonetheless), but there were plenty of kids from the crummy housing that I avoided. (and I avoided the rich kids, too, bcs they were mean) So while on an individual basis, I was happy to be friends w/ specific kids who lived in crummy housing, I wouldnÂt have chosen to surround myself with all the families in that income level. Which is what you do when you live in a neighborhood. So I felt early on thatÂespecially at the extreme lower endÂwhere you live can often be a reflection of what you are like. The housing is not what makes someone badly organized or not visionary about their own life; but it can be the RESULT of being badly organized, not reliable, or whatever. (not must, *can*--and if you're from a crummy neighborhood and having vision about your life, you're part of proving my point--are you going to STAY in that neighborhood?) When a person picks a neighborhood, they have to take it (at first) as a whole. ThatÂs how neighborhoods are experienced. And many of us could agree that it doesnÂt take that many unpleasant people to make a neighborhood tough to live in. In the very low end of housing, the chances of getting such people increases. It was only in the crummy housing of my hometown and my college town that I EVER heard anyone yell swear wordsÂat their own 4-year-old!!!--across the lawn (I sometimes swear in certain circles, but only once have I ever sworn in public, and IÂm still mortified by itÂscreaming the F word in front of little kids and tons of adults on a subway platform is not something I admire, and I donÂt need to apologize for it; and I donÂt want my kids to spent time in the home of an adult who would do that, I donÂt care how nice their kids are, and IÂd worry about how their kids would act, esp. since those particular kids, weÂd just met). If I know about a contractor who lives in crummy housing, and I know he does great work, IÂll hire him no matter where he livesÂthatÂs treating an individual like the specific individual. But if I DONÂT know anything about him, and he lives in crummy housing, IÂm gonna be real cautious. Because IÂll be afraid that the things that put him in crummy housing, could also make him a crummy contractor. ThatÂs treating an individual like a member of a group, trueÂbut itÂs only because I donÂt know anything about him. But if someone is buying a house and picks a neighborhood because they think a certain type of people is likely to live there, thatÂs treating a group like a group. They donÂt have time to consider all the individuals as individuals. And, theyÂre NOT EVALUATING individuals; theyÂre evaluating an aggregate experience. What happens for folks Carina talked about, who want to move into ever-richer neighborhoods, is that they take this idea and apply it at all levels. Unfort., I donÂt think it works in the middle. Once you get beyond the lower levels, it stops applying. In fact, the place IÂm REALLY a snob is at the top: you might get me to live in a poorer neighborhood than IÂd like (and IÂd be extra alert to which neighbors in that neighborhood I wanted to spend any time with). But you could NOT get me to live in Chappaqua, NY, or any other highly affluent neighborhood. I hear things that happen there that are worse than any "swearing on the lawn" or "ridiculing college graduates" or even "getting arrested for stealing your arch-enemy's battery to get even." Plus, my early prejudice is that while poor kids might be less visionary and harder to live around, rich kids are MEAN. Oh, IÂve liked *some* rich kids from my home town, now that theyÂre grown up (and IÂm grown up). As for the idea that where you live might send a message to your boss, I know this to be true at the higher levels. I have an uncle who got a job as a CFO of a national company here in NYC; when he moved here to take that job, he looked very carefully at which neighborhood he picked, because he knew his business peers would too. In the middle levels of housing, and of socio-economic standing, I donÂt think these things apply. (and so I shouldn't have expressed worry about a GC who lived in a lower-middle-class neighborhood; it's the lowest-income neighborhood that would worry me) But I can understand the logic of people who think they do. I don't agree w/ them, but I understand how they get there. THAT was what I was trying to say. That my experiences at the extreme edges leads me to understand what logic they're applying to the situation. Also, not wanting to live in a certain income level doesnÂt mean you have CONTEMPT for the folks in that neighborhoodÂit just means you want to live somewhere else. IÂve probably just dug myself in deeper and made you all think IÂm much more of a snob than I am. But I tried.
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athenainwi
16 years ago
Are they actually closing down now? I was hoping someone would buy them out. I still haven't made the trip there but their website is very informative.

As for the rose business in general, I think most people are like I was before I bought a rose - "they're too hard to take care of if you get the pretty ones". I always figured that roses only grow well if you are some super gardener or spray a bunch of nasty chemicals. Well, turns out it isn't so hard to spray a fungicide every couple of weeks, but it's hard to tell that to someone who just wants a shrub that blooms a lot.
alameda/zone 8/East Texas
16 years ago
Seems like quite a few of the old guard rose vendors are getting out - and I have noticed in my town that many of the smaller businesses are closing that have been there forever. The little country store close to my farm closed, and they tore the building down - very sad. The masses swarm to Walmart, Lowes, and the other big conglomerates. I am sorry to see this happen.
st_rose
16 years ago
I think we should give the average gardener's intelligence more credit. I see in Home Depot that the Carpet Roses just sit on the shelf forever (I don't think the Home Depot people are that diligent about stocking up there shelves), but the potted hybrid teas and floribundas are gone quick enough. They do look at the flowers and that in my opinion again most people have the image of hybrid tea type roses in mind.
mgleason56
16 years ago
They are closing at the end of the 2008 season, and retiring to Thailand. They are hoping to sell, but with the current state of the economy here, who knows?
sandy808
16 years ago
Well, I wouldn't be caught dead buying a rose at Home Depot or Walmart. All I've ever seen there is junk.

I'm in support of all the hard working nurseries out there that take the time to listen and advise, and take pride in what they grow and sell.

Hybrid Teas are very pretty, but I personally see a lot more interest developing in the old garden roses. I like hybrid teas, and grow about a dozen or so...for now. I have over 50 antique roses, and a scattering of David Austins.

I'd take the Old Garden Roses any day. Most have have drop dead gorgeous blooms, with lots of complexity. Most do not need to be constantly sprayed. I HATE spraying. It's too darn hot here to "suit up". If any of the hybrid teas die, they won't be replaced.

Sandy
karl_bapst_rosenut
16 years ago
They announced they were closing last year when they sent out their rose list. They spent much of the winter in Thailand scoping out the place. Nancy mistakenly sent me an e-mail while there. My name was just above the name of the people she had watching the place and she clicked on me by mistake.
I'm told they will have roses next spring but only a limited selection. If they can't sell the place as is, they'll close out in the fall of 2008.
I normally pick up 200 rooted cutting in late February from them. After next spring I'll have to do my own cuttings if I want to continue raising and selling plants at the farmer's markets.
bodiCA
16 years ago
Personally, I'm sick to loose Uncommon Rose and I also miss the old fashion drug store soda counter, ice cream parlors, neighborhood coffee shop where everyone knows your name, wood planked hardware stores with elders eagar to teach young one skills for life. People use to be dependant on each other in a Good Way, barn raising, birthings, acts of nature, potlucks, just plain 'being there' what ever the need, etc. Now, pay for Quality or go for Cheap, pay to help in research/development or just worry about myself, care about other peoples future, or only my own.......we have drifted so far away from much.......
sunny_grower
16 years ago
I know what you mean about the hybrid teas going fast. they see the pretty flowers and impulse buy. most won't care for them properly and lose them over winter.

I see carpet roses, explorer roses sitting there, and I see other semi wild roses etc, and they sell slowly, you would think they would bring the price down so people would buy them. I would. I just can't afford to buy one plant at 20 something bucks as I spent alot already through mail order too. If great lakes would of mail ordered I would buy them, I want multiflora hybrids, rugosa hybrids, old garden roses, and some wichurana, I was thinking about veilchanblau.

and one of the old fashioned roses I bought from home depot died, they let the soil dry out to much. and whats with the wax covering of the plants? one did survive, but can't remember which color it was or the name. the one I think that died is the rescht de rose. can't remember the name of the other one I think it is pink or white. but same flower design as the rescht.

One lady had to ask me (a beginner) about the roses because the people there couldn't help her with a simple question. It was which one is a china tea. IN fact it was right on the lable, I was able to show her which is, and that they require winter protection as they are tender.

and explained to her about hybrid teas. she said she was looking for a china rose for her mother. I said look on the internet, type in china rose.

anyway I don't think lowes or home depot will cause the true rose growers to totally go out of business as people experience poor quality stuff and poor knowledge of the staff they will look for rosarians.

but then again impulse buying doesn't mean one is a true rose gardner or has enough love for it to continue or they just buy them and treat them as annuals. I guess they don't mind throwing their hard earned money away. Not me.

RR
mgleason56
16 years ago
I walked into a Walmart last Thursday, entering thru the garden store just to take a look at what they had rose-wise. They had 2 roses I was not familar with, and thought I'd go back, look them up on HMFR, and maybe go back if they interested me. Upon further inspection of the roses, they were just covered with aphids, I mean covered! I called over a person working the area and told him he needed to wash these off with a strong stream of water. An hour later when I came out they were still not sprayed off. I loudly informed two people looking at the roses not to buy them because they were infested. The garden manager came over to see what I was talking about, and did not even know what an aphid was. And then people wonder why their plants die when they buy from places like this.

I'am at Great lakes Roses at least 4 times a year, and I am just hoping and praying that they find a buyer.
organic_appliquelady
16 years ago
I am sorry to hear that they are closing down. Sorry to say I have bought rose from Home depot and they have always dead on me after a month of being planted.

Out of the 18 roses bought at wal mart only 1 rose was marked wrong. So I figure 1/18 is not bad. All my rose have to survive in pot all year round, until we find a house and the can be planted in the groud.

Up to date I have 85 pots and 1 hanging basket. I have from roses bushes and climbers, daylillies, iris, to clematis, and 1 orange honeysuckle for the hummingbirds and othe planets for hummingbirds.

My oldest rose is a climber and has been in the same pot now for the past 7 yrs. I have great blooms every year on this one.

I don't use any chemicals at all on my HT and some have alot of problems with BS (using vinager for BS and it works great)

My roses just look great even for in pots. I can't use chemicals on any of my rose, because my bunnies get my roses to eat. They just love them, my bunnies look so forward to summer and getting Mom's roses as a treat. So you see I can't use chemicals at all.

Everything is all natural fertiziers and natural fungisied on my roses, just because for the the sake of my bunnies, even my cat eats some of the rose petals as well.

I like to make rose butter to eat, I would never want to eat poisions myself.

So I definaly don't have to suit up to have a great rose garden.

I have been using only natural or organic sprays on my roses for over 20 yrs and have never had a problem. My rose garden is a sit back and relax and enjoy the flowers and watch the bee's just go crazy around my place.

People see my garden, I live on a very small place of 20' by 45' and I have plants all over. Alot of people have said I should write a book. Gardening in small places and in pots.

The only thing is I might be able to do this in my area, but if you live back east, you would not be able to this in pots all year round.

I lived back east, Its alot of work in the fall diging trenchs to lay your climbing rose under ground to protect them from the very long winters.

But if the weather changes keep going like anything like last winter. We in Vancouver had alot of snow for the month of November and that is not normal for here at all. Back east had a great winter time until Janurary hit, then the winter cold finally hit them.

To me it just depends which roses I am looking for and where I can find it.

I would like to aedd a few miniture climbing roses to my garden next year. I know I will have to go the a nusery for those. I am thinking of getting a roses called Black Jade, Auntie Louise, "Rubies 'n' Pearls', Mini-Flora ÂIngridÂ,

janice
mgleason56
16 years ago
I try not to use too much chemicals on mine either because I do not want to get sick when I eat the ***%%** bunnies eating my roses!
grasshoppersilks
16 years ago
I am so sad to hear this. When we lived in Michigan 4 years ago we took the 3 hour drive to pick up some of the buck's at this place.

Here is a link to the photo's of the roses I purchased. Sadly I had to leave them behind when we moved to Colorado.

If anyone can name these i'd like to find them again for here in FL:

{{gwi:292276}}

Possibly serendipity??

{{gwi:292277}}
Prairie Sunrise????

{{gwi:292278}}

brook song?

Here is a list of the roses I KNOW i had:

THe three above
April Moon
Apple Jack
Chorale
Country Dancer
Earth Song
Hi Neighbor
princessw verona

Here is a link that might be useful: To Old Roses
mwenrick
16 years ago
I'm really sad about this. I love Great Lakes roses. I go every year and buy a hand full. Their roses are so healthly and they are so knowledgeable. I was just there in May and didn't hear about the closing. I hope someone will take it over.
zeffyrose
16 years ago
I too miss all the old things I grew up with.

Bodica---you listed many of them.

Jeri-------I liked your descriptions of the roses.

Everything is changing and I don't think for the better.

Florence
mxk3 z5b_MI
16 years ago
Okay, I'm late to the party on this - but isn't anyone HAPPY for Nancy and Rodger?!?! To be able to retire at the age where they're still able to enjoy their lives and to move to Thailand to top it all off - I personally think that is wonderful and am very, very happy for them.

I've made annual trip(s) to GLR for many years, ever since they were at the old place by Metro airport, and they are truly lovely people who were always welcoming, no matter if folks bought just 1 rose or 20 (or 30, or 40....).

I will sadly miss GLR and the wonderful service and roses they provided - but truly I am very happy for them. Sounds like they have reached their "dream retirement" goals, I hope I will be as fortunate...
oldroser
16 years ago
Gather that a lot of small mail order businesses are shutting down because of the new postal rate charges. They have made it incredibly expensive to do shipping and only the big firms can afford it and absorb the costs by increasing basic charges. I know that after looking at the shpping charges on a few orders this year, I've had to drop a couple of nurseries from my list. I just can't afford to pay as much for shipping as I do for the bush itself.

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