It is very very important that Wintersowers typically send things by snail mail to each other. It's hard to be snooty and rude to someone when you've sent them a lovely packet in the mail! Mailing and receiving reminds us all that behind the posts are real people with feelings and these folks are our wintersowing companions, not our rivals. We want them to succeed!

For example: Wintersowers are all unique in their ways of growing, be it in soda pop bottles or milk jugs, with Miracle-Gro, Pro-mix, or just plain ol' Wal-mart brand! So we kinda learn expect differences in opinions. After all, we're all over the country!

On other Forums, people tend to argue and snap because they really don't consider the other person nor do they consider their circumstances. After all, when their soil is jet black and full of worms, their compost is steaming like a factory, their plants are the biggest in the neighborhood, they assume that their way is the right way. And it is for _them_. If someone posts, "Well, I do it this other way..." Or "I wonder if this other way is right" Their response can seem be like the Queen of Hearts. "ALL WAYS ARE MY WAYS!"

They may feel that it is an personal attack when someone disagrees, or they even may feel like they want to help the other person by steering them away from some practice that in their own opinion is useless or even harmful. However, no matter how you slice, rudeness has its roots (no pun intended) in not considering the other person.

I think that the personal touch of trading, newbie packets, and Trudi's Wintersown.org six packs and tomato SASEs really contribute to the peace on the Forum.

I love this forum, but must agree with carol and carrie that sometimes people just come off the wrong way, not making excuses for bad behavior or rudeness. I know sometimes I want to respond but am in a hurry so my posts may be short, but GW has been a blessing and a wonderful learning tool in my life as well as others. Thank God for GW.

Gloria

Need seeds?

vera - cute

bakemom - you have the knack of saying the right things at the right times.... you are just too cute!

Carrie

From the very first I've been struck by how congenial everyone is in the WS forum and consider it a true breath of fresh air. On a couple of the other GW forums I read there're a few posters that fancy themselves experts. Unfortunately, they often give out bad (very bad) information, vehemently proclaiming all the while that it's the only way to do things.

Three of these posters give such awful "advice" that I strongly suspect they've never sown a seed nor planted a single seedling in their lives.

I've been wanting to say that for long time!

See why I like this place? I wake up early in the morning (7:30 is early for me) just to drive 20 miles in to work (on my day off) just to go to a meeting (which will accomplish nothing!). But first, I log on here and am smiling already!

Thanks Bakemom for the seed offer, but I have plenty for now. You are one of the most generous people I have met on here.

Tosser, doesn't it make you feel better just saying that?

Vera, I love the dancing bears...one day I will become computer-literate enough to figure out how to do that!

Today is a new day, and I am determined that it will go much better and smoother than yesterday. Thank you everyone for the pick-me-up. Hugs to everyone!

gardenluv, I stumbled across the post that upset you when browsing for something else this morning, and I can assure you - you misunderstood the tone of the response. The woman who answered you is not snooty but patient and kind, generous, and always adds something of value to the forums. She is knowledgeable in a wide range of gardening, manages the perennial department for a large nursery, does garden design, and has been published in national magazines.

Your question about an annual from seed appeared on a forum that had nothing to do with annuals or seeds. Please don't take that as criticism of you, it's not - I just hope you will give the other forums a chance and not spend too much time being upset over this. She would be very surprised to find she'd hurt your feelings, and googling the common name you provided would have given you a better base for your search as was suggested.

Gardenluv,
I know what you mean about "snooty". It sucks, particularly when you're a new gardener. I always tried to search for answers on other forums first, but sometimes I don't even know what I'm asking for.
But a kind word goes far.
I think it takes people who want to take the time to acknowledge others to make a forum successful.
But also, as others may have mentioned, don't take it too hard (no replies, snooty replies). Sometimes in the Internet world, words come across differently than meant.
And here's a ((hug)) for you...

:-)
Linda

Okay, maybe I'll wish later that I had just kept my mouth shut, but that is not my nature. I, too, have seen the post that you are referring to, and yes it might have gotten a quicker, friendlier response on the annuals, or growing from seed forum. That said, I have had issues with the forum you were on too. Instead of creating an environment where people learn, because they feel comfortable asking questions, it tends to be a place where "people of knowledge" come to show off their intellect. There was a thread on there last year that discussed using the common name vs. the scientific name, and you could see exactly who the ones were with the "holier than though" attitude. Sure, there are people that have plenty of gardening experience to share. It's just unfortunate that they don't have the people skills to match.

Gardenluv, I still use that forum occasionally, but I just sift through the attitude, to get the information I need, and move on to friendlier territory.

Bonnie

Guess I should proofread, LOL! That should have read "holier than thou" : )

morz, at the time I didn't know it was an annual, I thought it was a perennial. My computer locked up a couple of weeks ago, and for some reason the only websites that will work for me are gardenweb, and yahoo. I tried to search the best I could for it and kept coming up empty handed, and all I had were the seeds and the common name. If I were able to I would have used a different computer to do more research, but for now all I have is my own which is why I asked. I am glad to know that she is nice, and like I said, I started off having a bad day, so I know part of it is my fault. I am way over it now, and I sincerely hope that it was just a misunderstanding on my part. I will continue to stay at this forum though, since here is where I am most comfortable.

i pretty much keep to this forum and the cottage forum. such warm and friendly people. i've also visited a few other forums and recieved not so friendly answers or no answer at all. (roses) this is definitly a family friendly forum. i've learned more things on this website than any other. i google things all the time and almost 99% of the time am led back here. I always say to myself i should have known!! This is a great family!
Tanya

Okay - I also have found the thread you were referring to gardenluv - and there is one thing I think we can all learn from this thread...

I have noticed some really weird bantering back and forth on some forums - i.e. basically saying you don't know what you are talking about etc. etc. (not to me, to some others who posted)... that's different and basically rude. But... on the other hand, notice that there is a smiley face at the end of her post, gardenluv - that tells you that she is pleasant and not wanting to sound like a "know it all".... I love those smiley faces.. it tells you a lot about who they are...

Carrie

Wait a minute here....

People who know botanical nomenclature are not "holier than thou", they've merely had more exposure to the nomenclature. I do believe that in a couple of years time any new Winter Sower will also know a great deal of it merely through repetition. Looking up information on the plants you sow will expose you to the latin names...reading them as you continue to come across those names will drill them into your head without you even knowing it.

So, it's not holier than thou, nor is it snobbery, nor is it anything else except terminology that is used by people who are exposed to it.

WS is a launchpad for learning, it's time for many to take a running jump and a leap of faith in their own abilities to cross a divide.

Do it.

She wasn't saying that people who use Scientific terminaology for plants are acting superiour. She was saying that some people on a board discussing it were acting that way.

"some people on a board discussing it were acting that way."

Yes. It's hard feeling like you're on the outside looking in, because it can create an opinion based upon emotions.

All I can say is that I didn't know nomenclature when I developed this WS method, I absorbed it as I went along, and everyone here has that same capacity and every here will absorb it as they go along too.

I can understand any frustration on both sides because I work with people with great experience and complete novices too. Novices stop being novices somewhere along the way, and some day those same novices become people of great experience and they have new novices asking them for advice. It's like wheels that don't stop turning, the experienced share their experience with the new, the new use that experience to be experienced themselves, and in turn they share that knowledge with the new.

Discussing botanical nomenclature involves using it, people learn it, and they use it. I live it and breathe it, it's a big part of my daily work. This is a huge set of garden forums, and using botanical nomenclature, and discussing its usage are all fine to do. There are all levels of gardeners here on GW; WS gives people a means to rapidly span that divide...it is a springboard for learning.

Here is a link that might be useful: You can click the first link, it's all there.

I aplogize for posting the google search, I did both. THe yahoo search is listed below

Here is a link that might be useful: Yahoo search for Jobs tears

Trudi, I have learned a HUGE amount over the past year from this forum. Before last year, I couldn't tell you what most flowers were besides marigolds. Not only have I learned common names, how to save seeds, which ones to plant first, but a ton more. I know as a newbie that most questions can seem pretty silly, but here I am so comfortable asking them because I know people will help me in my learning process. I learn more and more as the weeks go by and my love of gardening grows with it. I didn't mean to start anything, I just needed to vent a little. Thank you for the yahoo link. Every website I seemed to stumble upon didn't give me the info I needed, but there are a couple on that link that have helped so thank you.

Trudi, I'm not saying that we shouldn't educate ourselves, and expand our botanical knowledge. I have learned the botanical names of everything I grow, but I'm not going to belittle someone that calls an Aquilegia, a Columbine. It's like being bilingual. It doesn't mean you can no longer speak English, just because you've learned Latin. It's not the knowledge that I find offensive, but the attitude of some that have achieved it. As you said, this forum has a nice mix of newbies, and vets, but everyone is friendly and helpful. That is not the case on the forum I was referring to.

Bonnie

Trudi, thank you so much for the link! This gives me a good place to start. This forum is always so helpful and supportive... definitely a place where I feel comfortable learning.

HT, Don't forget that Granny's Bonnets, Revolver Flower and RockBells are also common names of the plant.

As an example, if two endocrinologist are in a public elveator with several people and they're discussing surgical techniques for improving laparoscopic adrenalectomy are they being rude to the other people in the elevator, or are they just two endocrinologists using the words they have to succinctly speak to each other? They are two people who have done their homework, they know what they're talking about to each other. It is going to be like this wherever you go, it doesn't matter if it's plant forums, conventions or the office water cooler; there will be people that use the lingo they've studied--some people who don't know it will feel left out and wanting to be part of it. The people who are having discussions at their level of interest aren't being deliberately rude, they're just having a discussion with like minds ;-)

Thanks Trudi! The only other name I had ever heard of for them were Jacob's tears. Every little bit of info is helpful!

Okay, Trudi, I get your point. However, I see it more like a patient going to that same endocrinologist to learn about the adrenalectomy that is going to be performed on him, and the doctor using the language he would use when discussing the procedure with other endocrinologists, instead of using layman's terminology that the patient would understand.

It's a matter of building people up, rather than tearing them down.

Bonnie

Bonnie, if a doctor told me he wanted to take out my winkie doodle, I'd be running for the door and parking lot, open backed gown flapping for all to see :) Sorry, but that was a bad analogy for me...we're talking plants here, but I think educating yourself about your body and medical procedures is a much more important responsibility.

So back to plants. It's merely a matter of precise identification and communication. I wish I'd gone to school in the field of horticulture, but what I did is get married and not get my degree in anything. My love of plants and growing them is what led to the learning.

Plants can have so many common names even varying from state to state, and sometimes calling them by those names isn't an issue.

But if someone were to ask, Has anyone in Z8 germinated Mt. Laurel, I would think Kalmia which I've done and proceed with suggestions for surface sowing an an acidic medium as per rhododendron.

A gardener in Texas would already by typing about soaking the bean-like instead of dust-like seeds of Sophora, a large shrub for alkaline soil, and there is at least a 50% chance one of us would be wasting our time and giving the poster innocently bad advice.

I personally don't have a problem with that. And the response I got was helpful, I just didn't appreciate the last sentence. What also made me mad was the comment left after that one.

The only way I am going to learn the correct name is for people to tell me so I don't have an issue with that. With the doctor analogy, if I had a surgeon tell me something with terms I didn't understand, I would hope that he would then explain it in terms that I could comprehend. I would hope that he would not tell me that I should look it up myself, and then have the nurse standing behind him saying Amen to that!

For those of us newbies who don't know both names, it just really helps us to have others teach us them, or tell us where to find them without the extra un-needed remarks. IMO

Like I said before though, it's over, it's done, today was a new great day!

Morz8, your first line had me laughing out loud!

Amid all the back and forth about common versus latin names for plants someone mentioned an invasive surgery and that's where my mind focused too...stop the train, Nellie, I'm outta here..LOL. Visions of hospital gown flapping in wind as we're running hysterical...

Thanks for perspective in all regards...LOL.

For those of us newbies who don't know both names...

I think I will ALWAYS be a newbie at this. And to actually SAY the name rather than just TYPE it?? Forget it. I will look stupid in that area for the rest of my life...lol.

As long as I can grow it, and can save money doing it, that's my main concern. Since gardening isn't my vocation, I gotta pick my battles.

We're all at different levels of interest and experience. I think that's what makes gardening (and GW) so wonderful. No matter how much you know, you can learn more, and no matter how new you are, you can teach even a vet something new. It's a beautiful thing! :-)

Linda

Another classic example is questions about growing "coneflowers." Before you have any means at all to answer the question, you have to ask for either a description or preferably the Latin name to be able to answer correctly.

I understand that the latin names are initially baffling, but with the widespread availability of google and yahoo and all the other search engines (including the image search engines on the same site), it's really a matter of a couple more keystrokes and maybe a maximum of 15 seconds of the askers' time to be more specific when asking questions. That little extra effort can save days of forum responses on other peoples' parts.

Gardenluv. Good for you for putting it behind you. If it matters I too would have been hurt by the remark. Latin name or not I don't think anyone can argue that it did not come out very nice. and the response following it was uncalled for. But I think I would have let them know I was hurt. Just to see how they responded.

I think if I had responded at the time, I would have lowered myself to a lower level. I knew I would eventually get over it, and I have learned over the years to wait until I have calmed down or I will say things that I know I should not. I am just glad I have this forum so that I can continue learning about gardening. I love it here.

So far, I have not been flamed on any of the GW forums, but I have seen other who have. It always makes me feel bad when anyone puts down someone who is only asking a question. This forum and the cottage forum are the most friendly of all the GW forums that I have looked at. There are some forums that I will never return to as it seemed that all everyone wanted to do was to put down others. I love the way that I was made to feel welcome when I first posted here and on the Cottage forum. It seems that some forums seem to attract snobs and some attract the nice folks. I like it here with all the nice folks.
Donna

I have to agree this is an awesome forum full of great people! I feel so comfortable here and love reading the threads, I feel like I know so many of you that probably dont even know I am here...lol...I visit daily(like 4 or more times daily) and always walk away with a smile on my face and more information than the day before!You guys have walked me through all the steps in my first year of WSing and I have so much confidence in what I am doing now because of the members of this forum! I cant wait to contribute back! :D

I think we really have to remember that some words that are used innocently can be taken the wrong way

Ex: See my thread "Never done veggies...", Okay, I answered a question and started with "Gosh..." and it was taken the wrong way... It was just my way of expressing "I really don't know, but here's what I think..." It may have sounded to someone else that Gosh was... rude? impatient?... I don't know - I just know that I always mean to be kind and so it can be upsetting if another takes the wording the wrong way.

That may have been the case with others on the forums - because overall I feel that most of the gardeners are wonderful people, don't you all think so? Gosh! (LOL)

Carrie

LOL Carrie...I use Gosh in the same way and also feel upset when something I meant in a kind, or at least harmless way is taken the wrong way. We all do it from time to time. It is easy to find yourself on either side of that situation. In this particular case, I don't see how gardenluv could have taken it any other way.

pm2

oh GOSH (ha ha) it wasn't gardenluv at all - Now, I've really opened a can of worms.

It was someone else and they are not mad at me, just thought I was (I think) losing patience... but "Gosh" meant - I don't know - not, "Gosh, another question..."

It was NOT gardenluv - GOSH! (LOL)

Carrie

I'm not one to learn Latin names either but for those of you who do I tip my hat I think they are very difficult to remember.

copiosus organicus = rich manure :) (I think)

lol...you guys crack me up!

Ha! That's funny Rich! I love this forum & only browse the others because of short responses I've read. Gosh, I hope I never sound snappy to anyone :)
"Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end".
Maggie

I have to say, with all sincerity - I've been going to this forum for over four years (I believe) and I've never, never ever, come across a snooty remark from any of us here.

Yay for us!

Carrie

That's because wintersowers rock!

ROCK ON

I would if I could, rich.... only got the "dreaded x"...

Carrie

I have to say I'm fairly new to this website but have been truly amazed with the kindness and generosity of the folks here. Sorry you had someone to respond to you with a bee up their butt.
Happy gardening,
Arlene

Yes, the dreaded red X. That's all I can see too.
I hate those!
M

Gosh Rich! I thought it was argumentosus fimus.

Did you say Gosh? :)

okay - guys, now HOLD ON! (Gosh...)

It WASN'T ME who gardenluv was referring to... GOSH! (LOL)

(I got an email asking if it was me...) NO, IT WASN'T... ha ha

Gardenluv - where are you?? Tell them it wasn't ME, it was the one-armed... oh never mind...

Gosh

Carrie

lol.... Well, gosh guys! ha ha ha, NO IT WAS NOT CARRIE, did that clear things up? No one on here would ever be mean in any way. We have too much fun here and no time left to bash on others. Okay, off to work I go, and then home to sow another container.

Geez - thanks, gardenluv - I mean "gosh...."

Okay, enough with the goshes already!

Carrie