Why would being on City Water matter?

There IS a question of legality. Use of greywater isn't legal where I am located -- but that isn't going to stop me from doing it, when the time comes.

BUT I am on a hill, and 95% of our garden is below the house, so it is probably going to be possible for us to divert laundry water into a temporary system that will carry it down the hill, where virtually no one will see it.

I might add that one of the big problems with water (at least here) is people lacing their lawns and gardens with chemical fertilizers, and then watering until the stuff runs off into the gutters, and eventually into the sea.

We use very little of that sort of stuff, and we have NO runoff. It all just goes into the ground and down the hill. The final row of roses at the bottom may go away soon, replaced with sages and the like, which won't need much watering, if any.

Jeri

It matters because I'm not a plumber & I'm wondering if the access point for diversion differs according to set-up.

From what I gather of our local codes, we're SUPPOSED to be hooked up to the city sewer. I have a plumber coming to install some additional lines in the next week, and if this is a simple thing I'd love to be able to divert the sink and laundry water.

I lived on septic for years at my parents' house & my dad had diverted some water, and it seems that everyone else who has done this also has a septic system. I'm wondering if the challenge with city water is merely legal or if there's a design fiasco to consider as well.

If you google your city and graywater, you might find companies that will set up the service for you. Not that you have to use them, just that it is possible. You might be able to contact your city, I would probably not email or call :)

There are some cities that understand the use and others that think it is horrible.

I don't know why Ventura or LA County has an issue, other than some areas are so densely packed that all the washers would be an issue for flooding..lol

Personally, I would worry more about the stuff put on lawns than the soap in your laundry load.

I am 100% positive that we are just days away from water restrictions. I've already read our city's ordinances and there's nothing in there that a layperson like me can interpret as prohibitive--but I'm wondering how to divert the water without having some sort of mess inside the house or garage. There are 2 things that I have strictly forbidden at home: DIY plumbing and DIY electrical.

We're on the verge of getting a dishwasher, and I imagine I can ask the plumber, but I'm envisioning that "Duh, what?" look when I describe what I'd like to do.

Flaurabunda, the answers to your questions about how difficult it will be with your particular home are best discovered from asking your plumber. Each set up is going to be a bit different from the other. Mine was simple as the laundry is in the garage with perfect access to the outside where I could easily do it myself. If it was second story laundry in the center of the house, it would require a plumber. Septic or city sewer system should make little difference. Whether there is an access point where you can conveniently divert the water you want diverted without having to run pipes through the house is the larger issue. If you can and do divert laundry and/or sink and shower water, be sure to use products which state they are biodegradable and avoid chlorine bleach. If you're on septic, you probably already do both. This house is approaching sixty years old and was built on this ridge long before sewers were installed up here. The newer construction is all on sewer but we are grand fathered in. Had the laundry been buried within the house, it wouldn't have been nearly as simple to do what we did. Ask your plumber and if he can't or won't give you plain answers, call in another for a second opinion. Kim

My Hubby is a professional plumber, so all our gray water diversion was simple. I just tell him what I want and he makes it work.

This is our washing machine diversion. Part of this was done 3 years ago when the drought was allowing the pine beetles to attack our pinion trees in the front yard. It looks a little complicated, but it works great.
I just turn on the valve, where I want the water to go, and turn off the other valves. It's not pretty, but he built it from scrap parts left over from other plumbing jobs.

Our wall where the laundry water is diverted is right out side the back yard. So plumbing the hoses was just a mater of drilling the right size hole through one wall. The pump that drains the water out of the washing machine has is plenty pwerful enough to move the water out the wall and through a 50 foot or even a 100 foot garden hose. The only thing I have to watch for, is getting a kink in my garden hose, and then I have to run the wringer cycle again.
If you show these photos to your plumber, it will be easier than trying to explain.
{{gwi:291917}}From Gray Water

The water comes out the black hose and flows into the aqua colored hose. The yellow handled thing is the valve.
{{gwi:291919}}From Gray Water

Here is the inside view, where the aqua colored hose is plumbed through the wall. {{gwi:291921}}From Gray Water

Here is what it looks like outside. Just a standard 'hose bib' with a 50 foot garden hose attached. Not suspicious looking at all.
{{gwi:291923}}From Gray Water

This is the complete setup. Looks kinda scary, but it works great. Because we live where winter temps can drop to minus 30 degrees, I have to drain my garden hoses and divert the washing machine water back into the septic. On the rare days when winter temps rise, I can turn the vales, hook up a hose and give everyone a good winter watering.

I hope this helps. Using gray water has made a big difference in our water bill. The washing machine alone, pumps out 30 gallons for each load of clothes. Multiply this by 4-6 loads a week, a that adds up to a lot of water.
I am able to water all my roses 'for free'. I have begun timing my washing days with the days that I want to water my pants.

Something I forgot to mention. The out side end of the garden hose that gets dragged from plant to plant, can NOT have any sprayer attachment. This would create "back pressure" on the washing machine pump. The washing machine pump would not be able to pump the water out of the machine.

I just hang out in the yard and weed while listening for the pump cycle. Then I grab the hose and start watering. Sometimes I get distracted and forget to listen, and 1 rose will get 30 gallons of water. This makes the other roses so jealous :)

Kitty,
Thanks! That's an awesome illustration!

Now MY roses are jealous.

Thank you flaurabunda.
Last summer, the local town, about 20 miles from us, went on water restrictions. As summer progressed the town went from restricted outdoor watering to NO outside watering. This town is an upscale mountain community and most homeowners have expensive landscaping.
Some people just let their plants go un-watered, so sad. A few brave souls refused to give up and were bucketing dish water and bath water. Back breaking work. Some heard about our gray water washing machine. Hubby ended up with a lot of evening side jobs, installing washing machine gray watering systems. I get a giggle when I imagine these people, waiting till dark, to do their laundry.

But, I would do the same thing, if it came down to not being able to water my favorite plants. If Hubby knew how much money I spent on my rose orders this spring, he would question my sanity. If I had to dawn my swim suit and start taking my evening showers outside in the yard, just to water the plants, there would be no question. This might cause a few raised eye brows, but I love my roses.

I can't think of an ordinance more stupid than one forbidding the recycling of graywater on one's own property. Those who have such an ordinance should start a campaign for repeal. It would be supported by environmentalists, libertarians, and anyone with practical sense. It saves plants, conserves water, and reduces the burden on the sewerage treatment plant.

Interesting discussion. I am wondering about the effects of gray water on the plants? I have wondered, since it takes so long for the hot water to come up when you start the shower about all that wasted water that could be used on the garden, but the dishwasher draining into the garden would have the chemical cleaners in it, that I would expect to be pretty strong. Also the rinse water from the washer has soap in it and that is not a problem?

It would be great to find someone who had been doing it already and see what their experience was.

I was thinking the same thing prariemoon.. If I would save gray water I would put it in a rain barrel and use it when I needed it. I want to get a few of those any how. I wonder if there is anyway to filter the water before use or are you using certain kinds of soap?

Here in Los Angeles, the city golf courses already use "recycled gray water", which may or may not be filtered or treated. Yet, it isn't encouraged for US to do that. I guess I can understand. There is no telling what might end up in the ground water with the stupid things people do. I know in department stores there have been mandatory sensors on drains to detect dumping of chemicals into the sewer system. I first became aware of those back in the 80s. I heard from a city inspector with whom dealing with was part of my job, people would dump garden chemicals, corrosives, paint, anything liquid, down the toilets or in the sinks to get rid of outdated or damaged/returned product. I'm SURE the public has done similarly. It wasn't that many decades ago people used to put their used motor oil in plastic bags and put it out to the trash. There weren't places to recycle it as it just wasn't cost effective nor nearly the environmental issue it became. Nurseries used to just bury drums of pesticides and fungicides once they were expired or banned. It's scary knowing of some of the things just sitting there...ticking...

I would think twice about dishwasher water because most auto dishwashing detergents are powdered bleach types. Washing machine machine,shower and sink water I would think might be safer as long as the appropriate types of cleaners were used. I don't direct the laundry water to a garden here due to the severe slope and distance involved, but I do love how it has eliminated the plumbing problems and how it should easily help the septic tank maintain its sterling record. Though, the ancient oleanders down slope from the sump are definitely looking happier! Kim

Ann in Tennessee has been irrigating with graywater for a decade or more, I believe.

I suppose there could be soil chemistry issues if annual rainfall is very low. Most detergents contain sodium compounds, and borax is a common ingredient in powdered detergents. Although boron is a plant nutrient, too much of it is bad for plants.

The gray water system from my washing machine couldn't be simpler. I've had it in place for years.

The washing machine is conveniently located on the back wall of the garage and my hubby simply drilled a hole through the wall and attached a flexible hose from the plumbing dept. in Lowes to the drain...
{{gwi:291925}}

(PS: The vine froze last winter, but I've leaving it as a scaffold for a newly planted vine :-)

With each load I change the direction of the flow into a bed with a few shrubs, EEs, etc. and it also runs downhill a bit to water a Climbing pinkie rose.

It can also be connnected to the hose on the left that goes into a different part of the garden ...
{{gwi:291927}}

I just wish it was as easy to drain the shower water into the garden although that's illegal.

My hubby is thinking about how to run the kitchen sink drain, minus the dishwasher flow, into the garden also.

Hope our simply system inspires someone else to do it and get some 'free' water!

Lots of good info, Kim.
Here is my (non-expert) take on soaps harming your plants.
Washing machine soaps:
I have been watering with my washing machine for the past 3 years. The 1 st year the hose sat in the same spot in the front yard where I had planted some aspen trees. People commented on my "jungle" in the front yard. The baby aspens grew, the native grasses grew thick and tall and some wildflowers, I did not plant, appeared and all of this became a 10 foot diameter wildlife habitat. When I would go out to weed, I would find rabbit tunnels in the long grass and baby horny toads would come out to see what I was up too.

I buy the cheapest liquid laundry detergent on the shelf. As long as it has no added bleach. If I want to bleach a load of whites, I buy a bottle of bleach and add it to the wash cycle. This water is routed down the hill where we have nothing but weeds growing. I figure, the cheaper the laundry detergent, the less harmful chemicals the manufactures will have added to the product.

Shower Soaps and Shampoos:
This stuff is tested to be safe for humans, so will it hurt plants? Probably not.

Dish washing liquids:
Here again, the cheaper the soap, the less nasty chemicals have been added. If it's safe for human skin, it's probably safe for plants.

Automatic Dishwasher Soaps:
This is one I have no experience with. I do not own an automatic dishwasher. But, I would suspect, that since the soap does not contact your skin during washing, the manufacturers have much more leeway to add caustic chemicals.
I have not lost one plant to gray water watering in the last 3 years. My roses are happy, my rhubarb is huge and my baby aspens have outgrown their deer cages.

Thanks Kittylee. I figure if more of us quietly perform some of these "green" acts, it can only help us all in the long run. Where I'd really benefit from the gray water is half a story uphill, but I'm not ready to either haul or set up a pump to deliver it there. I've never really "enjoyed" doing laundry, but knowing it's benefitting some of the vegetation on the hill makes it a bit less obnoxious. Kim

Good old American ingenuity. Should drought and water restrictions stop us from growing our beloved roses?

Nice simple system, Roselee. And it looks like an easy DIY. The hardest part would be drilling a hole through the wall. Hide with a few plants and some mulch, and no one would be the wiser.

Hi roseseek, You could use a waterfall pump to pump the water uphill. They are not that expensive at Harbor Freight Tools. And, they are made to pump water from the bottom of a pond to 20 ft up a hill. See link below and it's on sale. Love that!

I am so glad we do not live in the city. I was a city girl, until 6 years ago, and at first I missed my city life. Now, that I am gardening, I am so glad we live in the country. All those ordinances and restrictions would make me mad. Who comes up with these, anyway?

I am keeping a running total of money saved on water bills, and money saved on cheap detergents. That is money I can justify on the purchase more roses next spring. hehe

Here is a link that might be useful: Waterfall pump at Harbor Freight

Thank you, Kittylee. Logistics are against where the water is needed and where it has to come from. There is solid house, and/or solid cement drive and walls between where it is and where it would need to go, with no easy access to run a hose, much less make it inconspicuous. It would have to lay on the ground and be in the way, vulnerable to being damaged, destroyed and tripped on/run over, or run three-quarters of the way around the house, going downhill two stories before heading back uphill. Good idea, otherwise, though! Thanks! Kim

Why would you have to hid it? Your using used water... Also I was thing (sorry for this) while in the shower I think I would probably be best to use handmade soap to use in the shower/washer/sink. There are tons on Etsy.com

Here is a Rose hip soap :) (there are more rosy soaps just not that one) - http://www.etsy.com/listing/60733425/rosehip-soap-all-natural-soap-handmade

And this seller is a big time seller on etsy with her kitchen and laundry products- http://www.etsy.com/shop/mrsjonessoapbox

and here is the link for all bath soaps- http://www.etsy.com/search/handmade/bath_and_beauty/soap?q=soaps&order=most_relevant&view_type=gallery&ship_to=ZZ

If I were to use grey water I would switch to Mrs. Jones SoapBox laundry soap (ATM I use Gain) or make my own because even with cheap soaps there are still additives and with Mrs. Jones the ingredients are: coconut and citronella soap, borax, washing soda, baking soda, essential oil blend of lavender, tea tree & citrus oils.

And you can get Detergent for 72 loads laundry (108 for HE machines)
Biodegradable bamboo measuring spoon, 1 tsp
75 mL reusable/refillable glass jar
The link to that listing
http://www.etsy.com/listing/58253832/laundry-soap-fabric-softener-all-in-one

We sometimes think these things too much making them more difficult than they should be.
My wife uses Tide with bleach and Downey Fabric softener. In the shower I use Dial and my wife uses those fance body washes and shampoos. Being bald, I just have more face to wash with the Dial.
Shower and Laundry water runs out to my rose beds through 50 feet of flexible pipe drlled with hundreds of 1/4 inch holes to distribute the water evenly throughout the beds.
Been doing this for over three years with no ill effects. The roses are growing nicely in those beds.
Perhaps the fact I have sandy soil and water frequently from overhead keeps anything harmful leached out of the soil? All I know is I haven't had to buy any expensive or special detergents or bar soaps.

I agree, Karl. My mother has been watering with gray water for at least 60 years. She got cited one time by the city for it but just waited until the inspector left and went right back to it. She and my father have always been a couple of free thinkers. Her garden is always lovely with no harmful effects. Of course, we have sandy soil.

hey, roselee - mine is exactly the same as yours - I wasn't going to say anything as mine is (and looks) such a home made bodge - literally, a large hole drilled through the wall where I poke the washing machine outlet - a professional plumber would fall about laughing (and I couldn't afford one either). I have another plastic thingy I bought which does the same with the bathwater - it just diverts the water in a little pipe to alongside the gutter drains, where I loiter with cans. It is all plastic joints and elbows, mostly, so no fuss about female threads and plumbers tape or copper pipes and benders. If there were more water restrictions (apart from hosepipes), I would just be filthy all summer, I'm afraid, and eat a lot of sandwiches) rather than failing to water my pots (more or less the whole garden). I do have a dishwasher - known as the spouse.
I am a bit shocked at the discouragement from local councils and such - it is more or less unanimously seen as a 'good thing' in the UK although not without numerous issues regarding toxicity, leaking pipes which have not been maintained, poor runoff (currently, large parts of the UK are living with flooding on an annual basis). Have been avidly reading about 'rain gardens'.