An air ratchet might put your hands/arm too close to the blade during removal unless you use an extension. I just use a plain ratchet with a ~3" extension with no issues.

From your description of intent, I wonder if you THINK an air ratchet delivers "hammer blows", (impacts) to break loose/tighten the fasteners??? Air ratchets lack the hammer feature and are really just for speeding up the process of "screw running" in tight places, or when multiple fasteners are being addressed. You might find an air ratchet useful to have for some operations, but being a compact substitute for an impact wrench is not on that list.

Thanks for the replies. I knew it wasn't the same as an impact wrench but thought maybe it had enough torque to loosen the bolt anyway. I'd buy and try it for $10 but I have to drive an hour to get it. I don't have any other use for it so I'll pass on it unless I find myself near that store.

Consider a 3/8" drive impact gun. I picked one up on sale a few years ago "just because" and it is now my first choice when I reach for an air wrench. Smaller and lighter than a standard 1/2" impact with an impressive amount of power.

Just another thought to ponder......

"Consider a 3/8" drive impact gun." " now my first choice "

I agree, I have a 3/8" "Butterfly" Impact that I use most of the time. Uses a lot less air and not nearly as noisy as the 3/8" ratchet and has much more torque.

Walt Conner

I use an electric impact wrench on all of my riders....
Also bought at HF for 40 bucks plus some tax

Regarding adequate "clearance" under the deck for using a standard impact wrench, you might want to try using just one wheel ramp instead of two. Place the single ramp behind one of your rear wheels (same side as discharge chute works well) and back onto the ramp. This not only raises the deck up, it also tilts the machine in a way that gives you a better visual of the fasteners.

"Place the single ramp behind one of your rear wheels (same side as discharge chute works well) and back onto the ramp. This not only raises the deck up, it also tilts the machine in a way that gives you a better visual of the fasteners."

I'm going to try that one mownie. I ran my ztr forward up my loading ramp just Tuesday. Had to back down. I had full gas tanks. Dang! So I use 1 car ramp on the front caster wheel. I had plenty of room to change my blades out. Never tried it backward thou. We'll see.

I've been looking at a Northern Tool Cordless 24 volt 1/2 impact wrench for $99.99 with free shipping. Max. Torque is 210 (ft.-lbs.). It has 56 reviews, and has a 4.6 rating. Comes with (2) batteries, and (4) Sockets, including a carry case.

Here is a link that might be useful: Northern Industrial Cordless Impact Wrench

The single ramp idea was offered by another member a short time ago, but I can't recall the member's name or the thread. I just thought to pass it along as I liked the idea myself. It seems to have multiple benefits for the task at hand, just one ramp to carry, provides elevation, better angle for viewing, and stability.

I went out and bought the air ratchet and it removed the bolt fine. It behaves like an impact wrench in that it "hammers" several times before the the bolt loosens. I can't believe that they can build and ship a tool like this from China for $10 and somebody still makes a profit.

***"It behaves like an impact wrench in that it "hammers" several times before the the bolt loosens."***
You can call it what ever you want, but there are no hammers, nor anvils, in the air ratchet. And if you continue to use the tool in the manner above, you will find out (sooner or later) why somebody can still realize a profit, even at $10. But, OTOH, where could you find a shop to remove and install blades for $10 a pop?? :^)

If an air ratchet "removed the bolt fine" then the bolt was not torqued to spec. No air ratchet, including the prime American brands, will spin out a bolt torqued to 65 ft lbs (or higher on some applications).

If I were the OP, I'd check the torque on the other blade bolts.

A lot depends on what you are removing. IE the blade nut on a Cub/ MTD is much more challenging then an AYP bolt. I suggest a 1/2" electric impact if you are compressor challenged.

Cheap and easy way.

I flip the deck. Slip on a box end wrench. Step on the wrench to keep it from flying off. Then tap gently with an 8lb sledge hammer. The mass of the big hammer allows gentle slow taps to deliver plenty of energy to the bolt.

I can't imagine having to fire up a compressor and run an air line just to get a couple bolts loose... seems like a huge fuss over a simple job.

***"I can't imagine having to fire up a compressor and run an air line just to get a couple bolts loose... seems like a huge fuss over a simple job."***
So,................you don't have an air compressor!
Oh well, different strokes for different folks. :^)

I guess it would be a huge fuss if you had your compressor and hoses are buried in a closet but mine's in the garage with the hose attached, coiled and hanging nearby. Just attach the ratchet and turn it on. The huge fuss for me was removing the deck. Using a ramp turned a 15 minute job into a 3 minute job and no cussing trying to get the !@#$ belt back on.

jdd332d,

"I guess it would be a huge fuss if you had your compressor and hoses are buried in a closet but mine's in the garage with the hose attached, coiled and hanging nearby. Just attach the ratchet and turn it on. The huge fuss for me was removing the deck. Using a ramp turned a 15 minute job into a 3 minute job and no cussing trying to get the !@#$ belt back on."

As I previously posted... If, as you posted, an air ratchet "removed the bolt fine" then the bolt was not torqued to spec. No air ratchet, including the prime American brands, will spin out a bolt torqued to 65 ft lbs (or higher on some applications).

If I were YOU, I'd check the torque on the other blade bolts.

Just a word to the wise... or otherwise.

If you tell me the power of your compressor, I can tell you if you will be able to remove the blades. The power comes from the compressor, the tool has very little to do with it.

The spec for my deck is 55 ft-lbs. I tighten the bolts by hand (and have for 15 yrs) and they never came close to being loose. The ratchet is rated at 50 ft-lbs ccw @ 80 psi.

jdd332d,

You tightening the bolts with the air ratchet, a torque wrench, or does your elbow click @ 55 ft lbs?

Well, I must be old fashion. I use a breaker bar with a cheater pipe, block of wood, break it loose, and spin if off by hand. then, I hold the sharpen blade up with one hand and start the bolt or nut depending on which mower I'm doing.

Then I hold the blade with one hand (with leather glove on)and tighten with the breaker bar some where close to half turn. I feel the stretch or torque of the bolt or nut, based on it's thread pitch and diameter, and know how tight tight is. If I didn't know how tight is? I would use a torque wrench. I do this without jacking it up or removing the deck. Yes I go through the grass exit chute with the deck raised all the way up by first removing the closed blade and then futherest blade on a two blade deck which is all I have, takes about 5 mins or so depending on how fast I moving.

I suspose I could jack it up, or hoist it up, and get out the air rackets, air guns, or elect impact, but by the time I do all that I ate up 15 or 20 mins.

I envy those who have calibrated elbows. The ability to determine proper torque based on fastener diameter and thread pitch while holding the assembly free hand and still compensating for belleville washers and the like escapes me... even after 20 years of doing it for a living.

I'll just stick with my torque wrenches and know it's tightened to spec.

***" The power comes from the compressor, the tool has very little to do with it."***
That is an amazing theory! How in the world did one ever come to a conclusion such as that?

"even after 20 years of doing it for a living". For some it takes a life time. Maybe in another 20 years. Actually it's stretch of a bolt that determines if failure point.

Torque wrench values on different sizes usually provided the amount of torque to stretch within limits unless the bolt or stud has been subjected to fatique(overtorquing or improper torquing). Then the only way to determine if a bolt or stud has fatique is using a dial indicator and a box end wrench. I to have been doing it for awhile, 45+ years. Yes I agree torquing is a sure fire way to get it right if done right, but that don't mean it won't fail due to some unknown factory.

A bit of clarification is needed:

Who can drive a larger nail into wood? A 100lb teenager or a 300lb wrestler (same hammer). In this example the hammer is equivalent to the air tool and the person is equivalent to the compressor. The more powerful/heavier the person holding the hammer, the more power can be generated to drive the nail. Many people think they can get a $20 air tool and a $99 compressor from Sears and they can take apart diesel engines. I can assure you, this will not happen. Air tools have CFM requirements, typically a minimum and a recommended. If you only meet the minimum, then guess what you, will get just that--The minimum power. Most 120V compressors DO NO HAVE THE CFM CAPABILITY TO POWER AIR TOOLS. They are great for blowing air to clean your garage floor or to inflate your tires, but they do not have adequate power to run air ratchets and impact guns.

Here is a CFM requirements table: http://www2.northerntool.com/air-compressor-buyers-guide.htm

Here is an example of an 'average' compressor needed to run air tools:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_211720_211720

If you have one of these and you think you will take apart tractors, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200359569_200359569

Justalurker is 100% correct on this one. It is funny how often we get posts here about blades coming off, poor cut, uneven cut, vibrations, etc. I bet most of the people complaining only own a set of box end wrenches, a hammer, and a can of WD-40. That is fine, but don't expect professional results. I always remove the deck so I can properly do the job and so I can inspect everything to ensure nothing else has issues and clean out any debris. Luckily I have a JD that the deck can be removed in just a minute or two (not much luck, it is one thing I require on mowers).

rc,

I admire your gift for prose.

Adding another variable to the conversation, failure, is an easy way to get in another couple paragraphs that are not relevant to the conversation but entertaining and illuminating none the less.

I said "The ability to determine proper torque based on fastener diameter and thread pitch while holding the assembly FREE HAND and still compensating for belleville washers and the like escapes me... even after 20 years of doing it for a living".

I assure you that every bolt I've torqued in my meager 20 years was torqued to the correct spec within the limits of the torque wrench. I'm also one of those idiots who had their three torque wrenches calibrated on a routine schedule when on the job.

I can assure you that not one single fastener I torqued in my 20 years has come loose, the measure of proper fastening technique.

A fastener fail, sure. I've caught a few during the job that I replaced as questionable but the failure of a fastener is not the result of tightening to the proper torque spec. That failure is the result of not tightening to the proper torque spec, more or less, and other factors we have not mentioned here but can be cause for you adding a few more paragraphs to enlighten us.

I have no idea how the below statement even applies to this thread. The average Joe has very little need for a shop style compressor to run an impact wrench to work on his lawnmower, or car for that matter. Many air tools use a large volume of air and need a better compressor. Sprayers, grinders use a large volume of air due to the nature of the job. An impact cracking a blade nut or bolt on a lawnmower isn't a big offender. 2 seconds it's off. Sit there and hammer for 10-15 seconds, the smaller compressor finally kicks on. Certainly there is a difference in capability of compressors and impact wrenches like anything else. It's not like we're working on dump trucks here...

"Most 120V compressors DO NO HAVE THE CFM CAPABILITY TO POWER AIR TOOLS. They are great for blowing air to clean your garage floor or to inflate your tires, but they do not have adequate power to run air ratchets and impact guns."

THANK YOU TOMPLUM!
You zeroed in on the "substance" very well. I will also add this. You can have a 100 CFM compressor, set to 140 PSI, feeding air to a 3/4" drive impact wrench through 100 feet of 1/4" ID hose, and the wrench will be woefully unable to perform anywhere near the output specs, but it will keep hammering away unproductively all day if you hold the trigger down. OTOH, you can operate the same 3/4" impact, off of a 4 CFM compressor, set at 90 PSI, feeding through 10 feet of 1/2" ID hose....... and the wrench will knock loose truck wheel nuts that were torqued to 500+ pound feet. But, you will have to let the air pressure build back up between each nut removed. If we were to "buy into" the idea that it was simply the CFM (power?) of a compressor, instead of the tool that mattered, I guess I would trade my 3/4" drive impact for a 1/4" drive butterfly and gain some space in my tool box! Where I work, the shop has about 300 CFM worth of "parallel plumbed" air compressors, so that ought to enable me to use the smaller air tools to do the big jobs.

The original question was about the power of an air tool from harbor freight. What I am suggesting is that one should consider the compressor capabilities before the tool it self. You cannot have a conversation about air tools w/o mentioning the air compressor capabilities.
tomplum, you need to read jdd332d's question . He states that he saw an ad for an air ratchet with a 45 ft-lbs of torque rating. What I am saying is that in order to get the advertised power from the tool you are using you need the correct CFM rating in your compressir. If you don't have it, you will not get it, Do you get it?

***"you need the correct CFM rating in your compressir. If you don't have it, you will not get it, Do you get it?"***
NO...you need the correct Cubic Feet per Minute volume of air flow, at adequate pressure, AT THE INLET FITTING of the air tool in question! It makes no difference what the actual CFM rating of the AIR COMPRESSOR is when discussing the POWER produced by any given air tool. The CFM rating of an air compressor only tells you the max air flow volume that the compressor can supply to the air system plumbing, and CFM of a compressor is not an arbitrary standard constant either. The CFM of a compressor drops with an increase in the governed point of the air compressor. CFM rating of the compressor is useful for calculating the appropriate size compressor and air pressure reservoir size for a specific use application based on the calculated air volume use of the of the facility. A higher CFM compressor will be able to hold its own even if a lot of air is being used by the collective shop, but the power output of any air tool is dependent on the volume, and pressure, available at the inlet fitting of the air tool, not on the CFM of a compressor some distance away. Or, in other words: 90 PSI & 6 CFM at the tool is the same, whether it originates at a 10 CFM compressor or a 100 CFM compressor, or a 1,000 CFM compressor. A bigger compressor does not make for a more powerful tool, it just means you can operate the big air tools for a longer duty cycle, that's all.
Now, do you get it?

Enough already! If you guys want to talk it over a beer tonight, lets do that. I will buy the first round. Sam Adams for everyone--)

Now you're getting it ; )

New rule. All threads should end with the offer of a beverage! Cheers zoulas, tho I was peeking out the patio door and it was looking like it was going to margarita out tonight...

Thanks for the SA zoulas, it was good :^)

My little cheapo twin tank air compressor from Advanced Auto will remove the huge deck bolts from my Kubota without being plugged in if the tanks are full to start with. How can that be compressor? Hmmm
It boils down to two things :
1) Pressure
2) Volume

1a) Pressure example: A tank with 500psi the size of a thimble won't remove anything.
2a) Volume example: An air tank the size of an 18 wheeler with only 2psi in it won't remove anything.
Conclusion: You gotta have enough pressure and volume to operate an impact wrench.

Bartender!! Can we get another round over here?

Yeah, we are all getting thirsty from beating this dead horse.

I have the same problem but no one mentioned which WAY loosens the blade nut. CCW or CW? Right hand or left hand nut?

I have a 21" Honda commercial mower. This so called "professional" OPE service shop I used must have used an impact wrench and tightened the blade nut to 120 foot pounds! I guess no one uses a torque wrench anymore. :>)

***"I have the same problem but no one mentioned which WAY loosens the blade nut. CCW or CW? Right hand or left hand nut?"***
I wonder if you thought of checking the owner's manual for info. :^)
Of course, this is not your Honda OM, it is however from a certain tractor owner's manual (the book nobody reads).

{{gwi:346714}}

cause for you adding a few more paragraphs to enlighten us: you've brought up some good points and usually I won't argue with using a torque wr. but that's not all of it and I believe your experience, feel has a major roll in your techique's.

Just one quote from a professional engine builder justaluker. Course this in in a critical area not backyard or shadetree wrenching.

"Go by the stretch and not the torque. The torque reading can be affected by many things, such as the "smoothness"/surface finish of the threads on the bolt and the nut/threads in the rod, the type and amount of lubricant used on the threads, the surface finish/hardness on the washer (if a washer is used), etc. "The bolt stretch is affected by the material properties and bolt dimensions".

Just cause you torque someting don't mean it won't fail. too many factors involved.

I sure you never had any failures caused you used NEW fastner hardware each time and cal. you torque wrenches, But you also stated that you catch some pending problems? How did you catch them? wasn't by your years of torquing, feel, (I find if hard to believe you torqued every bolt/nut in 20 years) and assembling then something felt wrong and feel did have a big role in it when not using a dial indicator and stretching.

I have found cause some of my jobs required me to do both. That the stretch usually falls within the torque band unless a fatigue problem has occured (I won't add cleaning and inspection (wich includes NDI) cause that is norm in my profession). ANY fastner reused could have a fatique problem cause you cannot verifiy the orqinal torque or torques or strengh of the matierals without NDIing (how many of us do that at home)

Lets face it most HO will not use a torque wr., or new fastnering hardware, or will clean the mating surfaces and theads, or even us lubrication. Tight is in the hands of the one turning the wrench reqardless the method and IMO feel plays a big roll. No feel No Clue!?!

I agree anybody that has no expierence or feel to assemble should use a torque wr. But IMO the majority of use tighting commmon fastners can do it based on the calbriated elbow or maybe I the only one that can do it. The dead horse has risen!

When I moved to PA a few years ago I packed away stuff in boxes that I still cannot find including my Honda HRC216HXT owners manual and my best can opener. :^( I need a "senior pass" these days. I was thinking that different engine manufacturers may have different crank threads. RH, LH. What do I know about stuff like this?... Very little as I am just an OPE novice. :>)

rc,

An eloquent presentation and on point but all in all Clint Eastwood said it better and more succinctly in Magnum Force... "A man's got to know his limitations".

These do-it-yourself versus screw-it-yourself threads simply reinforce the fact that to do anything all that is required are the tools and the knowledge.

Lacking either you get what you get. People lacking either (or both) come to these forums looking for a magic bullet and often find that bullet being fired by someone with less knowledge or poorer tools than they have... except on this forum where there are many very knowledgeable people who apparently enjoy typing more than practicing what they post.

My blades don't fall of and my bolts don't strip or snap so I'll just continue to muddle through with the knowledge I have been taught, have learned, and time has proven cause more than anything... I hate fixin' my own stuff!

To quote Michael Rennie from The Day the Earth stood Still... "We do not pretend to have achieved perfection, but we have a system and it works".

newjerseybt, I can relate to your comments, and you can borrow my senior pass........as soon as I can remember where I left it. Please bear in mind that though I used your plight (CCW or CW) to illustrate a point, the point was not solely aimed at you, nor anyone else specifically. It was just an apt opportunity to remind folks that if all else fails, try the owners manual. As you joined this forum in 2003, you are probably familiar with my modus operandi and I hope you will be tolerant of my sometimes abrasive "print personality". I don't always "get it right" when I choose a tactic to illustrate a point or explain something "my way". I hope you didn't think I was being condescending because I did not mean it that way. It was supposed to be more like "Eureka! Who woulda thunk you could get that info from the OM??"

Checked out the calbrated elbow this morning. It still works. Guess I haven't meant my limitations yet and I think I may have achieved perfection! thanks for the compliement!

This thread's still going? You guys are just doing this so I have to look at my misspelled "rachet" every time I visit this site.

Can you tell some of us are bored. normally majority don't look at the mis-spelled words. Feew are goad spealler's anyho and most of the one's that are cheat and use spell check. See what happens when post involves torque, air tools, and there proper use. dead horse still kicking.

I donut use splecheck!!! NEIGH!

All this talk about pressure and CFM's is making me thirsty! OK, next round is starting now. I got Sam Adams, Bud Select, and some nice IPA's. For anyone interested, I have a magnum of Stoly and some good single malt. PS, Single Malt is great in the cold weather.

Cheers! (clink, clink, klink, clanck,) HEY! not so hard on the toast! This beer's expensive, don't need to be sloshing it all over the keyboard!