Let me get this straight. The FMZ-50 is a $5000.00 machine but it has so many bugs in it that MTD stopped making them but you'd be happy to buy one anyway??????

One of those bugs is that the deck stops turning whenever you cause the deck to tip up more than 7 degrees as you start to ascend a slope. They have to put a switch in there to disconnect power to the PTO clutch or you'll smoke a very expensive drive belt due to lack of tension on it. That's some engineering.

MTD isn't known for building great machinery. Most people feel that they totally screwed the Cub Cadet name into the ground.

If you want a decent ZTR, then your budget is a tad light. My suggestion is that you go look at a Deere EZ-track Z425.

It will run circles around the CC when it comes to ground speed. You get a 54" deck and instead of that silly twin, totally enclosed hydro drive system that MTD uses, the Deere has Parker Hannifin wheel motors driven by a Kanzaki pump. And, you have two less tires to worry about along with all the moving parts it takes to have those rear tires there.

I can assure you that in years to come, you'll be happy that you did not choose the CC FMZ50 because there's all kinds of linkage rods and rod ends that tie the rear steering to the hydro's and all those items will begin to wear, get sloppy and then cause erratic operation. When that happens, the cost of repairs is likely going to be a major factor. The Deere system is proven to work and it is simple. Simple is always better.

You need to look at this for what it is.... a long-term investment. Since the day that MTD introduced this whole I-series concept, I've been totally unimpressed due to the complexity of it. But don't take my word. Instead, go to the CC dealer you've been talking to. Go to his parts counter and get the parts guy to price the following.

Deck drive belt
Hydro unit for either side
Linkage rods between the rear wheels and the hydros and the steering wheel

Yeah, I hear ya :-) I guess due to my line of work, I've become accustomed to things not working right.

Coincidentally, the last page I was reading prior to coming over to this forum tonight was Deere's Z425 page. It looked "more than adequate" for my needs. I wouldn't need "more" than this machine offers and it may indeed be the sweet spot for performance, longevity and value for me. As far as price goes, I can keep an eye open for a good used one.

That being said, what else is comparable to this level of machine by other manufacturers? If I had three different machines---or models---I'd increase my odds of finding one at the price I want to pay.

Toro Timecutter ZX or Toro Titan are roughly in the same price bracket as the Deere but I'm not sure that Toro still makes these or if they have subbed these out to MTD too.

There isn't much out there in the price range you want to pay. ZTR's were initially developed for the commercial grass cutting industry and most machines sell for $10,000.00 to $18,000.00. Next to the engines, it's the hydrostatic drives that cost the most and ZTR's have two of them instead of the single hydro needed for a lawn tractor. As such, it's hard to get the price point down without dramatically sacrificing quality.

Look at what AYP's Husquvarna division charges for their units. Link below.

The least expensive AYP's are branded under the Sears Craftsman name and are down around the $3000.00 mark but they don't come close to the Deere.

Ariens and Simplicity are two other makes you might want to investigate as both are targetting the residential market.

Here is a link that might be useful: Husq

Thanks for the info, kompressor.

Regarding used Deere equipment and MachineFinder:

Machinefinder has a couple of sub-100 hour Z245s listed for about $3200. By the time I add in a few hundred for shipping, it looks as though going with a new machine from my local dealer might be a better way to go.

Once upon a time, I had reservations about buying something used, sight unseen, boxed up and trucked to me. But that was before eBay. I'm trying to balance caution/common sense on the one hand with Deere's "alleged" reputation for quality and service on the other. At least on eBay, you can read the feedback for each seller. Any thoughts here?

I've read a few accounts (in some of the tractor forums) where the dealers pretty much stick to their advertised prices. I want to believe that in January, they might be a bit more "flexible". But, just because my lawn is covered with snow doesn't mean somebody somewhere isn't mowing theirs. In this age of the Internet, is there an honest to goodness slow season?

Well, a dealer in Massachusets isn't going to sell anything to someone in southern Cal. Shipping is a killer and most companies expect a dealer to sell within their area. In order for dealers to be flexible, there has to be a significant mark-up between their dead cost and MSRP. As I understand it, that gap has narrowed in recent years for a number of reasons. Keep in mind that a dealer has to pay shipping, pay someone to forklift it off the tractor/trailer, unpack it, possibly assemble a couple of things and then conduct a full inspection and pre-delivery service.

And if they don't sell that unit within the time allotted in their floorplan, then they have to pay Deere for it and that may mean they are now paying interest to carry it in their inventory. Some dealers have salaried sales people while others pay commissions on sales. If dealers could sell these as fast as Mickey D's sells burgers, then the price could drop due to volume but we both know that doesn't happen. So, I wouldn't hold my breath when it comes to getting a smokin' end-of-year deal.

The other thing is that Deere dealers hate it when another Deere dealer drops his pants just to sell a unit. When that happens, it has a tendency to bite the dealer in the a$$ down the road when he really needs something from another dealer. As such, they all pretty much sell for the same price in an area. That might be bang on MSRP or just a bit below.

Thanks ---I've really enjoyed the conversation---and the education!

Best wishes

I agree with kompressor about the Deere Z425 being the best buy out there and is the closest you can get to a commercial ZTR for the money. All the rest have residential hydros....period. You can buy the Z425 at Home Depot or Lowe's. Same machine and it's set up and serviced buy the Deere dealer. I disagree with kompressor that most ZTR commercial units sell for $10,000 to $18,0000. My top of the line Kubota diesel was $9,500 while my brother's Skag commercial unit was about $5900. There are many units priced around $6000 to $8000.
Anyway, the John Deere dealers, Lowe's and Home Depot have to sell the units at the same price. That being said, Deere can reduce the price and has done so 2 years in a row in late spring. They ran a sale on the Z425 for $3200 for about a week both years. That's $800 off. Great buy in my opinion.

rdaystrom:

Thanks, that's good to know. That's a really good price!

I signed up for Deere's e-mail service---maybe they announce upcoming sales?