(Plant #1)

Here is a rather ugly looking AV which was blooming fairly well when I brought it home a couple of weeks ago.

It's not very full looking, and the lower leaves are leggy.
Should this plant be groomed somehow to set it on a course to being more attractive?

(Plant #2)

This one was not blooming when I obtained it.
I chose it because it was very full and bushy.

(Plant #3)

I also chose this one because it was full and bushy.
It was not blooming when I obtained it.

This one has a few more leggy long leaves at the bottom compared to #2.

Where should I begin with #2 and #3?

Should the larger lower leaves be removed to allow the plant to refocus on newer segments?

They both have a lot of leaves in the center.
I don't know how to tell if there are any suckers needing to be removed or not.

I read that if there are leaves which are covered by other leaves, that the lower leaves should be removed, as if they are covered by higher leaves they are serving no purpose.

Where to begin? :)

Your first picture has so many pretty blooms! That's what I love about African Violets - indoor flowers! I think you're right about the next three - they all need some serious grooming, but they look very healthy. # 2 and #3 look like they will each give you at least two or three plants once they are separated. I'm sure more knowledgeable growers will chime in soon, but I've learned (sometimes the hard way) that after I do a major repot, especially when separating plants like you'll do with #2 &3, to either place them in a clear plastic bag or under a dome for awhile to help them along until they recover and the newly separated plants form roots. Good luck...you won't even recognize them once all the older leaves have been removed. It's like when someone with long, outgrown hair goes in for a haircut and comes out with a well-groomed and styled haircut - you hardly recognize them.

The first two with the nice blooms came that way from the store... so I had no hand in their appearance :)

Those two plants also have nice upright lower leaves, and not droopy ones like #2 & 3.

I'm a bit nervous about having to separate #2 & 3. I really don't want to handle them too much as the leaves and stems break so easily.

Just being told how to groom isn't enough, I find that I really need visuals the first time or two so I can understand it better.

De,

First, I would let them acclimate to their new climate before I would do anything except remove dead growth.
Also, a leaf that is covered is still functional so there is no need to remove it except for aesthetics. A leaf is functional as long as it is green. When a leaf begins to shut down its chlorophyll factory, it will begin to yellow. Then it can be removed.

On plant #2, I would let the crown grow out and gradually remove the leggy leaves at the outside as it does so. There is a balance between top growth and bottom growth and a drastic grooming will affect the roots adversely.

Plant #3 needs to be divided. I believe you can find visuals on YouTube but it really is just a matter of finding the separate crowns, which leaves go with it and cut/pull away! The first one is scary to do but it's how you learn. Soon you will be able to divide a plant in your sleep!

Good luck!

Linda

Regarding #3, it's hard to tell (with my experience anyway) where the two plants are when viewing from above, due to there being so many leaves, although I can sort of see it, especially when I compare it to #2.

Will the separate plants become more obvious once I've removed the soil and can actually see the roots and base of the plant?

What about #1?
Will it fill out on its own or is there something I should do to speed the process?

I've also noticed that on the two best specimens (first picture, with the blooms) the leaves are in a more upright position, whereas the rest are more droopy. What does this mean?

Fantastic advice, Linda! @ De, I'd add that when you are ready to separate, let the plant go a bit dry. Then the leaves will be less crisp and less likely to break. Joanne

And one thing I always neglect: make sure you have plenty of supplies on hand before you start any 'surgery'. That means enough potting mix and different size containers, a few extra are always good to have. (You always run out when you need just one more)
I find with store bought plants, by the time I remove suckers, or divide multiples, the plant that was in a 4" ends up in a 2" pot. (Maybe I am a bit rough when removing the old potting mix...) many people will tell you to go with a pot 1/3rd the size of the leaf span - I just go with slightly bigger than the root ball - seems to be about the same anyways.
Other than that, do what Linda says :-) she knows her plants.
As for stand up vs droopy leaves, space and light have a fair bit to do with this. Plants that grew in a tight environment, packed against one another, only have one way to expand - up. But also plants that don't have enough light will reach up, or do the same to protect the centre from too much light. (So it can be a bit hard to figure out which your problem is) I think the long petioles are also a sign of low light, but I am not sure on that count...

Karin

Dezzo,

As Karin said, upright leaves can be from crowding in the store or greenhouse. It can also be from not enough light (or too much!). And, just to make it interesting, it can also be the plants natural growth habit. Usually, we first assume it is not enough light. Place it where it will get more light and watch it. If the leaves lie down, your crown grows nicely and you get good bloom, then that's the spot. If the leaves reach up more, move to a lower light and wait for the reaction. If you get good bloom along with the upright leaves, then it is probably the plant's natural habit. I have a 'Starry Night Blue' that looks like it has been in a hurricane. I have moved it to every possible location and never once has it changed its look. But it is a blooming beauty so it's happy!

As the others have said make sure you have supplies on hand. Your plant will most likely be much smaller once the suckers have been removed. And, it's helpful to let them go a bit dry before you divide. Less chance of crisp leaves snapping off and it's easier to dig around in it to find the suckers.

To identify the suckers, find a crown that looks off to the side. Since your plants are so crowded this may be difficult but give it a try. You should be able to see which side leaves are surrounding this crown. It can also be helpful to look at the trunk so you can see where the sucker came from.Take a small knife and remove the plant from the main trunk at that point. You can usually do this with just the point of the knife; you don't have to slice or dig it out. If you leave some of the side leaves it's not a problem. You can remove them later. Just get the crown which is the growing point. It probably won't have any roots-not a problem. Pot this up with the crown slightly pushed into the soil. Water well and put in good light with a dome or in a plastic bag, tightly sealed. You should have roots in about two weeks or so. If the baggie becomes excessively drippy, open to vent for a bit and then re-close.

It sounds complicated but it's really not. Just don't attempt this when you are in a hurry to get to something else. The first time is a bit tricky!

There is no way to speed up growth on a plant except for good growing conditions and culture. Even then, plants, like children, grow at their own pace. Gardening teaches us patience. Don't worry, your little leggy one will get there!

I hope this helps!

Linda

Don't be afraid to lose a few leaves when you repot. It will grow more.

Thanks for the explanation on the upright vs. droopy leaves.

Even though it was suggested I give the plants a little time to adjust to their new environment before repotting, I've decided I'm going to divide #3 in the next couple of days.

Mostly because I am looking forward to doing it now that I understand it better.

Any comments on using a rooting powder on the divided plantlets? It's not something I ever see mentioned in association with AV's, so I was thinking maybe they don't tolerate it or something?

Most growers are not overly impressed with rooting powders and therefore don't bother with it. Maybe someone else has had luck with it and will chime in.

Linda

Well, I ended up dividing #2 instead of #3 since I got them mixed up!

Here are some pictures of the process.
Did I do a hack job?

It was so congested that it was difficult to tell where new crowns might have been. Some of what I cut off and replanted may not even be crowns for all I know.

#2 above is how it looked before surgery.

#2A (here) shows one location where I thought it should be divided (to the very right of the small green leaf above the roots)

#2B

A segment that I removed which seemed to be a cluster of its own, separate from the rest of the main plant. I was guessing.

#2C

Another crown?
A few roots this time.

# 2D

Is this a crown?
It's pretty flat so maybe it's just a chunk of leaves.

# 2E

The end result with all the babies.
Can anyone tell if they actually are crowns?

This post was edited by dezzo on Wed, Jan 15, 14 at 2:51

#2F

The incubator. It was a bit tight closing the top, but I think it should be ok.

I gave each a small drink and I guess I am just supposed to leave them in here for a few weeks?

#2G

And here is a shot of the parent plant post surgery.
Compare it to #2 above earlier in the discussion.

Even if what I hacked off weren't all crowns, I do think the parent looks better now, and actually looks very close to the professionally grown ones that come from the stores in bloom... so maybe it's not so bad.

Apologies for all the separate posts, but it's the only way to attach multiple pictures using this antiquated forum software.

So experts :) what's the verdict?

Looks like you'll need an extra growing shelf by the time you're done separating all of them ;-)

Nice work. You will need to lift the dome from time to time to check on moisture. You may have to add a little water now and then. Joanne

Great job!!! I told you you could do it! It looks as though they are all crowns and they look great. The only thing I would change is to put your babies under a taller dome or in baggies if you have nothing taller. They moisture in your 'terrarium' will condense on the inside walls and sometimes leaves touching that will turn to mush.

Keep moist, not wet. I have a few plants that are domed that are starting into bloom. I haven't watered them in about two months so don't worry too much about having to water.

Linda

I put them in a larger container tonight to provide a bit more headroom. Though it's still not going to give them much room to grow. I just can't find anything with the right height and honestly I'm sick of looking.

De,

You really won't get any growth until the plants root and establish themselves. In a few weeks, give a gentle tug on the leaves. If they have grown roots, they will not come out of the pot. If they have not rooted, just stick them back in the soil. When you are satisfied they are rooted, open the container a bit and then a bit more over a couple of days to acclimate your plants to life on the outside.

Linda

I'm going to end up with far more AV's than I can keep.
Can I keep them small, say 3" pots and still have them bloom, even if I remove leaves to keep them compact?

I'd just like to congratulate you on doing a very good job of cleaning up your plant! It appeared so congested that even someone experienced at removing suckers would have had to look very carefully. You did great.
That said, can I offer the suggestion that you do NOT have to keep all these plants? One of the most important things I have learned about African violets is to "limit your collection." That means, not every sucker needs to be planted. Not every baby from a leaf you put down needs to be separated and potted up on its own. Not every broken leaf needs to be put into soil. When faced with so much plenty, choose a few plants that look best to you and (I know this may be hard) throw the rest away - that is unless you already have someone else who wants your extra plant. You will soon be out of room if you keep every leaf, sucker or baby plant that result from your growing Av's. It's too easy to get overwhelmed and then the joy goes out of growing. Really, it's OK to throw away!!

Amen to that!
I've managed to throw 2 runts out so far, but within 1 month my 'collection' has grown from 20 to 30, not even counting the rooting suckers and leaf babies. (I was debating if DH would notice I bought yet another AV, if I asked him to put up another light fixture...)
When I mentioned to someone at the av society that half my collection was babies from just one plant (my first one, go figure), he suggested I bring the extras to their sale. Then I had to admit all my plants are NOIDs. He then suggested to bring a few flowering ones in, and if they could ID them, they might still be sold...
Now I am between a rock and a hard place - do I groom the 'extras' to be presentable enough for ID and sale, or just chuck them? I am in favour of tossing them, because once I get them 'neat' looking, I won't want to give them up :-p

Karin

Karin,

I would say if your plant sale is for the general public, go ahead and take them. The average person just wants a pretty plant for their windowsill, (think of all the un-named violets that sell in the big box stores). Irina takes her extras to the local nursing home which I think is a fantastic idea.

De,

Plant biology lesson-the more you prune a plant, the more it will respond by putting out additional growth. A plant that is genetically meant to be large will not be kept small by leaf removal. It is root restriction, not leaf removal that will affect plant growth the most. Keeping them under-potted will help a bit by restricting root growth but not really all that much.

Donate your extras to a nursing home, local club or friends and neighbors.

Linda

Dezzo, Linda taught us that the leaves are the growing factory that balances the plant. It is going to be a long time before they will fill even a 3" pot. As part of my learning experience, I usually let everything try to grow. I find nature kind of takes its course. Meaning that the weak ones die off. @ Karin, i suggest you give them everything you don't want. They usually need inventory for sales. Just attach a small photocopied pic of the bloom. People who go to the sale who are not collectors are not too fussy about whether or not the plant is named. I learned that from my small, low-key club. Last fall, I presented my club with 25 babies. I attached thumbnail photocopied photos of the bloom and the name. They sold or traded everything and were happy to have them.Hope this helps, Joanne

Joanne,

I do the same-pot up everything and see what thrives. You don't know if the plant you are throwing out would have turned out to be the strongest grower or even may be a sport. The weakling will die off on their own.

Linda