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How to improve drainage

13 years ago

I dug a dead rose early this spring, and we have had a ton of rain. The hole still has water several inches deep from last night's rain. Is there an easy way to improve the drainage so I can plant another rose there? Thanks for your help.

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Comments (8)

ogrose_tx
13 years ago
Lainey2, I don't think there is an easy answer. I have a similar problem along my 70' chain link fence that over the years has developed a drainage problem. My son, who is a landscape contractor, is developing a bed for me; it appears that he is building a sort of berm to offset this problem as well as taking some soil off the edge of my patio.

We're talking major landscape and tree soil being added, don't know if this will work, but it's a start. It's not going to be cheap, and I really had to think about how important it was to me, but must be done if I want to have the plants I want.
lindawisconsin
13 years ago
Lainey -
How is the area the rest of the year? What kind of soil do you have? Is it heavy clay?
The answer may be as easy as adding lots of organic material or may be as complex as installing a French drain.
Are any other plants growing in the same area?
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You are essentially looking to accomplish one goal. That is to reduce the pressure caused by the added weight of water being held by the soil behind your wall. Anything else that you do that does not contribute to that goal is meaningless. If you do the post hole method, it will do very little because it won't drain the surrounding soil. The only thing it will do is provide a path for surface water to follow out through the weep holes. That can help divert a certain amount of surface water out of the area before it has a chance to be absorbed by the soil. The water has to be flowing on the surface and directed directly into those columns of stone for that to happen. The stone is not going to pull it out of the soil and the soil is not going to give it up until it can't take any more. Until you correctly understand water movement in soil you can't address the problem effectively. Try this to help understand the situation. Fill an aquarium half way with dry sand and then top it off with soil. Tamp it down a bit with your hand making a slight depression in the middle. Slowly drip water into that depression and see how long it takes the sand to get wet. You will find that the soil will be entirely saturated before it drains into the sand. It is no different behind your wall. The soil is still going to load with water. Replace what you can of that soil behind the wall with a material that will not load and you will reduce the pressure on the wall. Weep holes or no weep holes, that will be the biggest way you can affect reducing pressure on that wall. I really don't think you have much of a problem with surface water. Your roof drains are piped away, the house foundation appears to be just a few feet away, and the return walls make it appear that there is a steeper slope parallel to those walls than perpendicular to them. That makes me think that it is unlikely that you have completely saturated soil behind that wall very often, if at all. If that is the case, trying to make the weep holes work is a waste of time.
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Comments (5)
Susan, kimmsr often posts his standard recommended soil test to determine things beyong a lab soil test; I've copied & pasted one such posting from Fall 07; the drainage test/length of time is in there: ------------------------------------- By kimmsr, Oct 07: The best way to improve your soil is to add organic matter, but you also need to know something about your soil at the beginning so you know that what you are doing is doing what you want. Start by contacting the local office of your University of Massachusetts USDA Cooperative Extension Service and inquire about having a good, reliable soil test done so you have an idea of the base nutrient load and soil pH and what you ned to do to correct any problems with them. Then dig in with these simple soil tests to see what you do have; 1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top. 2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up. 3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart. 4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer you soil will smell. 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy. This will guide you in the future and you will be able to see the changes in your soil. ------------------------------------ Hope this helps, wishing you, All the Best, Tree
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I guess I'm dumb but my daughter and son-in-law had the same problem being at the bottom of a hill. He dug trenches and laid in drainage pipes with gravel on top. He did this all the way around the house to the street. Didn't touch the flower beds. It worked great and they live in Pa where it normally rains a lot. When he put in new beds though, he built drainage into the edges of the beds. All their flowers beds are raised. You might want to consider raised beds for your flowers since you will be redoing your whole yard. I have included some pictures of how he did the beds when he built new ones. Just a suggestion for an alternate plan. The plastic bag idea sounds good for your plants. Dot here he is installing drainage in the beds this is the back side of the house that gets all the water from the hill, the water runs down the front of the beds to the street, the big drain runs behind the shed and around the other side of the house it is all finished now and planted and looks beautiful
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scy0846, push a 1/2" diameter dowel or similar implement into the ground outside the root ball and try to withdraw it as quickly as you can. If you can do so without undue effort it indicates that there is appreciable air in the soil mass; if it is difficult then there is probably a lot of water in the soil. If the latter condition, you might try digging a 'trench' around the outside of the root ball to drain the water away from it. If doing so will make the tree unstable then you might try a posthole. Observe the posthole daily and bail or pump out any water that collects in it. The transplanting coupled with the daily rainfall may explain the yellowing/dropping leaves; it should be temporary. A waterlogged condition at the roots will show up at the growing tips of the tree. Look for limpness, darker coloration or tipping as compared to the tips on another magnolia in good health. I believe that the condition is temporary.
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zack_lau z6 CT ARS Consulting Rosarian
13 years ago
We have been raising our rose beds with compost--we make lots of it out of tree leaves and grass. We also got a sump pump to help in case we got heavy rain like we got one year while the ground was still frozen, but it wasn't needed this year.
jim_w_ny
13 years ago
I've gardened here, upstate NY, since '92 and have had consistent problems growing roses. About 1/3 of those I planted died or have malingered. Part of the problem is heavy soil and in places very shallow soil. Lots of shale around here even out cropping at the end of one bed.

Still they are some roses that are unaffected shrugging off what is sometimes mentioned in rose books as doing well in "poor" soil. So....it could be one of those cases where another rose might make it there. A rose that is tough as nails grows in any soil and even does it in shade is Rugosa Alba. Also disease free. Has a wonderful big beautiful white very fragrant flower AND repeats bloom.
buford
13 years ago
You have to determine if it's a temporary problem due to a lot of rain, or an ongoing problem (it floods every time it rains) there are spots in my yard where the water collects and they stay wet long after everything else is dried out. My yard is high in the front and gets lower in the back yard to direct the water to a drainage hole. I did have a lot of landscaping in my back yard to help with this and had all my downspouts buried to carry the water away from the house and to the drainage hole. I also have several french drains in spots. I still have some minor issues in spots.

Even with that, my flower beds will get very soggy if we have a lot of rain over a short time. Not much you can do about that. You can't really improve the drainage in a small spot except for building a raised bed.
flaurabunda
13 years ago
It's been a mucky mess the last 3 springs, including this one, hasn't it? Farmers can't even get tractors into the fields. They sink.

What usually is a great spot for roses has turned into mud bogs. I raised the beds, I have a sump pump, and I'm in the process of plotting out some new beds designed for shade plants that will hopefully gobble water in some of the boggiest areas.

Right now I'm seriously hoping that this is a short term pattern, but only time will tell. In the meantime, I've traded gardening clogs for those rubber rain boots and invested in a lot of Oxyclean to get the mud out of all my jeans. I refuse to transform to container gardening and I'm determined to ride out this weather pattern.

And guess what...more rain forecast today. They've been blowing dams just south of me in the Cairo area this week. So sad.
seil zone 6b MI
13 years ago
I'd dig deeper and see if there is a clay layer below that's preventing the water from draining. If so you may need to dig past that and then add more soil and organics to get it to drain properly.
karl_bapst_rosenut
13 years ago
Fill in the hole and make a raised bed over that spot. Fill raised bed with good soil and drainage problem solved.

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